Face opera

http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2012/05/face_opera.html

by robin_reala • 14 years ago

93 112 14 years ago

chewxy3• 14 years ago

I'll stop using Opera (currently my default browser) if facebook acquires it. Such is the level of trust I have over facebook.

sparkie5• 14 years ago

What makes you trust Opera any more already? They're already quite capable of logging every domain you visit, via the fraud prevention mechanism (Enabled by default). Whether Opera are recording this I don't know, but you can probably be quite certain that Facebook will, if they acquire it.

raquo• 14 years ago

That's exactly the fear – Opera doesn't have much reason to link recorded data back to you, facebook does, and is known to permanently store all available data. And it already knows way too much about you.

rplnt3• 14 years ago

At least they say that they don't log it. Google's Chrome does send and log every website you visit.

budman• 14 years ago

I have been a big fan of and user of Opera since it had banner ads in the free version. It has been a long time as my preferred default browser for home and work PC's. I'd even have it on my iPad if I could.

But when I first heard this rumor over the weekend I felt in shock (and sick). I hate Facebook along with its smug a-hole founder. Never even had an account (although I do feel I missed out on some old connections and such but refused to be a part of FB). From a business standpoint I guess it makes sense. FB would get a mature, fast and feature rich browser (One they could data mine to no end, including emails).

But the very last version of Opera that was released, shall this buyout happen, will also be the last version I ever use. Opera has a very clear and good privacy statement. I trust Opera. But Facebook, forget it!

In past few days I have spent time downloading and trying pretty much every other popular browsers. From Chrome to PaleMoon. I could live with one of them but nothing really compelling for me. They all have already been uninstalled and am done trying. Opera would be surely missed.

untog• 14 years ago

But when I first heard this rumor over the weekend I felt in shock (and sick). I hate Facebook along with its smug a-hole founder.

Stop applying emotional attachments where they don't belong.

andyking• 14 years ago

I also use Opera regularly - it's my main browser on my computer and my phone. I've been using it since the 90s, and actually paid for it back when it displayed an ad for free users! It just has so many useful little extra features, and I generally trust them not to use my data for nefarious purposes.

If this happens--and I've seen nothing as yet to suggest it's anything other than a rumour to get the pageviews up on certain tech blogs--I'll be uninstalling it after nearly fifteen years of use, and probably making the move to Firefox. I don't have a Facebook account, so why would I want to use a Facebook browser? Instead of just tracking me across Like-enabled sites, it'll be able to follow me around the whole internet, logging goodness knows what.

I seem to remember a social networking browser was tried out before, as a forked Firefox and subsequently Chromium, in Flock. Whatever happened to Flock?

I paid for Opera years ago, and I'd actually pay real money again for a good quality, feature-filled browser that was guaranteed to not include tracking. I'd rather pay with my money than my privacy. Money can always be replaced, and earned again. Once privacy's gone, it's gone.

rplnt3• 14 years ago

Sadly, there is no viable alternative. I use Chrome as my second browser, I occasionally use Firefox and although they are both great browsers, they offer nothing close to Opera. No configurability whatsoever and no extra features you are accustomed to.

jamesgeck02• 14 years ago

Not really. Firefox has a minimal featureset out of the box, but extensions are allowed to do a lot more. With a few extensions you can get nifty new features and UI customizations that Opera just doesn't support.

apawloski7• 14 years ago

Why would you use Chrome, but not the potential FB Opera? Google has just as much of a stake in your information as Facebook, but that hasn't led to their browser being a privacy vulnerability.

sho_hn• 14 years ago

Call me a zealot, but if there's one piece of software that I feel ought to be open source, it's a critical centerpiece of modern communication like the web browser. As such, Opera is already not an option for me. In fact, a Facebook acquisition could even change that if the new regime decided to produce a Chromium equivalent.

chewxy3• 14 years ago

To me it's how a brand builds trust. Sure you can build trust with open source (afterall, if you can see the source code and build it yourself, it CAN be trusted), but you can also build trust by not being dodgy.

I've been using Opera since its paid days, and despite having switched browsers every year or so, I've still gravitated back to Opera as my day-to-day browsing browser. That's the value of their brand.

deno3• 14 years ago

I’ll just use the open source version.

benburleson2• 14 years ago

I assume that regular Opera users lean toward the geeky side of the spectrum. The same demographic has a pretty sour taste for facebook and Zuckerberg. There's no way Opera usage will remain what it is if FB is running the show.

sparkie5• 14 years ago

Opera really could set any price they want. The browser itself is worth far more than some crap like instagram - and Facebook really need it quite badly. I'll be disappointed if they don't get at least $2bn for it. :p

enneff• 14 years ago

Why do they need it "quite badly"?

ZenPsycho3• 14 years ago

Facebook probably wants to do things with the web that are not currently possible. Without their own browser they are dependant on other companies to make those things happen.

stefanve• 14 years ago

I'm wondering what would happen to fastmail as this is currently owned by opera.

Teapot• 14 years ago

Then FastMail would instantly lose me as regular user. I'd just use it for junk mail.

betadj• 14 years ago

Why not run as an independent team as it is?

rkwz• 14 years ago

>Trident is not for sale, Gecko is irrelevant and possibly too heavy for mobile use, and WebKit is interesting but rather crowded. Presto, Opera’s engine, is the only one that’s available.

Why is Gecko irrelevant? It still has a good chunk of marketshare.

zxoq• 14 years ago

Not on mobile, which is where Facebook wants a browser.

bad_user• 14 years ago

I use Firefox on my Android. It's a little heavy but it's OK. I like it a lot because I'm a desktop Firefox user and it knows how to sync my bookmarks and my saved forms data and my history back and forth. The UI is also much better than Android's built-in browser and it's been making a lot of progress.

I think people are not seeing the forest from the trees here. Firefox has a lot of potential on mobile phones, because Firefox has a lot of desktop users that would want the Firefox on their mobile devices, at least for the Sync functionality.

Also, on mobile WebKit may be the most popular, but there are so many incompatibilities and performance differences between Android's browser, Blackberry's browser, the webkit-powered S60 browser, Chrome, Safari and Mobile Safari that you might as well count those as different engines.

asmosoinio• 14 years ago

Re Opera Mini and them having no competition in proxying browsers: Nokia's S40 Browser actually does proxying these days. This was released as a beta in late 2010, and is now the default in all S40 phones. (http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/nokia-browser-for-series-40-b...)

It's not a proper competitor of course, as one cannot install it to phones by other manufacturers, but it does still cover a pretty big chunk of the low-end devices.

JBiserkov• 14 years ago

Well, Nokia is not for sale either since it was semi-acquired by Microsoft.

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

There's a large quality gap between's Nokia browser and Opera Mini. Nokia isn't famous for their browser, after all.

bobsy2• 14 years ago

I still don't see the value in it. It made sense when Google did it. Chrome came and shook things up introducing features no existing browsers had and placing an emphasis on JavaScript speed. This was critical for Google as a number of its apps make heavy use of it.

I don't use Chrome anymore, I switched back to Firefox but its undeniable that it had a massive impact on the speed of browser development and probably the progress of web standards.

Now.. if Facebook bagged Opera what would it add to Facebook or what benefit would Facebook get? A bigger say in web standards. Does this matter much to Facebook? They would have a mobile browser.. this still doesn't help them make a mobile app which doesn't suck.

I just don't see the point. The most likely result of this would be alienating existing Opera users. I would also expect Google to switch Opera to web-kit to reduce development costs. I don't see how a company like Facebook will see a return of investment by buying out Opera.

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

> introducing features no existing browsers had

Please, elaborate. The only feature I know is exclusive to Chrome is full page translation (since they own Google Translate it makes sense).

What else?

bobsy2• 14 years ago

I thought that they introduced.

Sandboxing for individual tabs

Ability to drag tabs between windows

Isn't each tab a process or something so when you close it memory is freed?

I am sure there are some other things. This is all I can think of off the top my head.

xuki• 14 years ago

omnibox

mseebach2• 14 years ago

Fast JS (it took Firefox forever to catch up) and SPDY.

rmc• 14 years ago

They stopped WebKit from being owned by Apple. Webkit supports lots of new CSS3 & HTML5 stuff, and for a while was the only way to use lots of the CSS3 stuff. This means you can get advantages of the modern web without relying on an Apple browser.

klausa2• 14 years ago

I'm really baffled by all those people saying that they will stop using Opera if FB acquires them.

I mean - okay, If they start modifying it to send your data to Facebook without way to opt-out - sure, do that.

If they start showing ads in fastmail and reading your mails - sure, that's reasonable.

But I really think that doing that the moment FB acquires Opera would be quite an overreaction.

loceng• 14 years ago

Sign of protest?

ttt_• 14 years ago

I don't know. I'm quite worried that the whole technology space is turning into a big brand feud war arena.

We are begining to see the subverting of unrelated products into business strategies. No, I don't want my browser/car/glasses/phone with any strings attached. What are we looking forward to a decade from now? iBank? FB insurence? G+ real state?

I for one will make efforts to avoid those products like the plague. If we do not strenghten small brands, we accept the rule of the big ones.

Overreaction is okay for matters of principle.

j_col• 14 years ago

If I could up-vote this a hundred times, I would. Welcome to the Internet: sponsored (filtered!) by Apple/Google/Facebook/[take your pick].

Reinforces my belief that open standards and open source really, really matter when it comes to a free and open Internet.

thatjoshguy• 14 years ago

> What are we looking forward to a decade from now? iBank? FB insurence? G+ real state?

GE sells refrigerators, MRI machines, insurance & financing and owns a television network.

We've actually already been there.

tripzilch• 14 years ago

Why? I'm already not using Facebook products because they have no respect for user privacy. IMO they have very definitely crossed a line in the past, several times even. That has consequences.

Additionally, Opera is the only European browser. That may sound stupid, but it's part of the things I can do to put as much distance between me and that messed up country the US of A. Getting bought by some huge US corporation is yet another vector to subpoena my shit or the US gov to influence my life.

crag• 14 years ago

Why are you baffled? FB doesn't have the best rep when it comes to privacy.

sparkie5• 14 years ago

One problem is that we might not know (what) it's sending to facebook, as we don't have access to the code to review it. Sure there's tools to analyze/reverse engineer the client, but that isn't really a practical option.

Opera users instead trust Opera on the security and privacy they claim to offer. This tends to work fine, as Opera have a good reputation for privacy, and they have not abused the trust of their users.

Facebook have, multiple times. Anyone who cares about privacy will avoid it purely because facebook cannot be trusted. Trust must be earned, and facebook have much work to do before they will earn the trust of many (if ever).

I'm not quite sure what it is, but when companies are large enough, people tend to be forgiving, as if their past sins have been cleansed without any good reason. People tend to misplace popularity with trust - if so many people are using it, can't be bad for you right?

benburleson2• 14 years ago

Does anyone here actually trust Zuckerberg?

antidoh3• 14 years ago

Why would FB buy Opera, except for scenarios similar or exactly like you list?

If I'm a frog in a pot, and I see you turn on the gas, I'm jumping out, because I know ahead of time that it's going to get hot. By the time the water boils the (subjective) damage has already happened.

Which is to say, I'll leave fastmail before the ink is dry on a FB/Opera deal.

klausa2• 14 years ago

You could say the same for Google - why would they need a browser?

JustNick• 14 years ago

Add to Chrome mouse gestures, and i will change browser.

vetler• 14 years ago

And single key shortcuts!

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

And vertical multi-column tabs! And good performance for 100+ tabs on single core CPU-s! And speed dial! And integrated email/RSS client! And trash can! And notes! And so many more.

Then I might switch.

Gustomaximus• 14 years ago

The article also left out another major benefit to Facebook. If they buy Opera they will get massive exposure in the CIS region where the browser products are the strongest. This can give them a hand overtaking vKontate and could be worth much to Facebook alone. Yandex / vKontate will know this and may want to defend by a counter offer so it could be interesting.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#social_media-RU-monthly-201104-20...

Also worth noting is if the co-founder Jon and Geir's (the other co-founder) widow don't want to sell their stakes, it will make things difficult for anyone to take over and all this speculation is just academic.

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

"Installable web apps".

The author doesn't seem to be up to speed. Opera has announced widget support will be dropped, along with Unite applications.

http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2012/04/24/increased-fo...

I guess this decision could be reversed if Facebook buys Opera.

raphman• 14 years ago

From the article:

And Opera used to have a widget manager embedded in its browser, so it wouldn’t be too hard to dust it off and restart the project.

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

>Opera used to have a widget manager

It still does. The upcoming Opera 12 will not have it. The author makes a reference to the fact that the widgets have not been receiving proper attention since they were launched and need dusting off.

My point is widgets are (and have been) basically dead, at least in terms of popularity. I'm not sure Facebook execs are aware of their existence, so it's probably unlikely they have a future. Just have to wait and see.

jm4• 14 years ago

Unite was awesome. The problem is hardly anyone used Opera. A company like Facebook could actually do something with it. Imagine the possibilities for apps and games if a big chunk of Facebook users had it.

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

Unite is really awesome and I'm sorry to see it go, I used it for quick sharing with friends. Much more convenient than Dropbox when you just want something right there and then.

framebench• 14 years ago

This post might just be to push people to leave Opera probably. Opens up a huge market for the other not-so-good browsers to prep up their marketing on app stores!

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

The reason Opera users don't like the idea of Facebook buying their browser is twofold.

1) Association - Facebook has a really bad image among many people, and I believe Opera has a hugely better reputation than their potential buyer.

2) Fear that Opera will stray from it's declared course of supporting the open web and creating the best browsing experience (which it currently delivers, by far).

I will not be uninstalling Opera if the acquisition takes place but will keep a very close eye on any developments.

Unfortunately Opera is the only choice for me in the current browser market - other browser can't accommodate my browsing habits, so I would be very bitter if anything were to go wrong. I think a lot of Opera users feel the same way.

cateye3• 14 years ago

The battle of the giants is really beginning: Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Google and Amazon will be trying to define the future of the internet and they will have to attack each others core businesses to grow further.

On several levels of the internet they all try to get a foot in:

1. Cloud: AWS, iCloud, Azure, Gdrive & App engine - Facebook hasn't got a storage or computation sollution

2. Social: Google+, Windows Live, Facebook - Amazon and Apple don't have real social networks

3. App stores: Apple app store, Play, Market Place, Amazon Appstore - Facebook doesn't have a real app store.

4. Operating system: OS X and iOS, Android, Windows - Facebook and Amazon don't have a OS yet.

5. Browser: Internet Explorer, Chrome, Safari, Amazon Silk - Facebook doesn't have a browser yet.

I really think that all companies will battle each other on all the levels because loosing one level will cause the collapse of the others.

So, Facebook definitely needs a browser.

TazeTSchnitzel• 14 years ago

1. iCloud runs on AWS and Azure IIRC, it's really just AWS, Azure and App Engine. Unless you're referring to consumer cloud.

2. Apple has ping, but that doesn't really count.

3. Facebook is launching an app store.

4. Amazon has its own version of Android it uses for Kindle Fire. Sure, it's based on Google's Android, but they ripped out the Google bits.

5. That's true, Facebook doesn't yet have its own browser.

philfreo• 14 years ago

You should also add in Media sale and consumption - music purchase and listening, etc.

cateye3• 14 years ago

This is certainly not a inexhaustible list. Just some important areas. Media sales, advertising income, hardware design, integration with 3rd parties etc. are also major components.

drats• 14 years ago

Another point here is Amazon Silk caches/records a huge amount of your browsing, it's between the user and the web, and so does Opera Mobile (not opera desktop as far as I know). Facebook in this way will capture even more than they do through their ubiquitous "like" buttons which are constantly recording where everyone goes.

tjoff8• 14 years ago

Opera Mini does. Not Opera Mobile (although you can opt in if you like in Opera Mobile and the Desktop version).

tjoff8• 14 years ago

Amazon?

You guys need to realize that practically noone outside of the US has any idea of what Amazon is.

udp• 14 years ago

I think I'd be hard pressed to find anyone here in the UK that doesn't know what Amazon is.

apawloski7• 14 years ago

Even if that were true, it's not especially important for the end user to be familiar with the brand name "Amazon." They use its services constantly. Are they familiar with Netflix? Do they read the Guardian or the Washington Post? Maybe they use apps like Yelp or Foursquare or visit websites like Reddit or IMDb.

Amazon's web services are everywhere. If you're dismissing them because you don't recognize their name, I'd seriously question your familiarity with the current web landscape.

jgroome• 14 years ago

> So, Facebook definitely needs a browser.

Why?

cateye3• 14 years ago

This is off course a legitimate question. I tried to really summarize it by saying: "loosing one level will cause the collapse of the others".

The browser is for the end user an important base because that is where they get directed to surf and target ad spending etc. By inserting functionality like a start page or search engine, the behavior is influenced a lot. You can also push own services and products directly.

The current status of the browser is also that it can replace the OS. (See Google Chrome OS)

shrikant• 14 years ago

Google made a browser so that Google products wouldn't be hindered by whatever the state of the browser market was. And Google was the Internet for lots of lay users.

Now since Facebook is the Internet for lots of lay users, I suppose they might use the same driving logic?

mikeevans• 14 years ago

>Amazon doesn't have a social network

I'd argue they have a good amount of social data through purchases. Just because it doesn't involve posting pictures of your cat doesn't mean they don't have it.

apawloski7• 14 years ago

I wonder if this is even more valuable (in terms of predictive power) than facebook's data. After all, the latter tries to predict buying behavior through adjacent information, while the former is, well, buying behavior.

repoman2• 14 years ago

1. Opera is really not useful. On mobile phone it uses more memory does my built-in android browser, and it doesn't even run many of the websites smoothly... damn 2. Acquiring Opera doesn't really help Facebook. It generates some revenues, but doesn't help FB to maintain its large operation cost, and doesn't help its ads moving either.

repoman2• 14 years ago

You guys are really making a big deal here. You guys are hackers / engineers yourself. Companies need to make money. Almost every company "uses" your data and make money/ How do you think Gmail has "relevant" ads next to your email browser? No matter what fancy mechanism they put there, they are still using your information. If you really hate people using your data, just build your own mail service. Even small brands use your data. To what level do they use? Who knows. I am pretty sure people would lie about how their products use your information (oh yeah we don't store this and that...) BS. lol It's business. Your credit card and bank information all has to reported to credit companies. These companies make money off your information. So are you saying we should stop using credit cards? Even as "trivial" as college admission - you receive numerous stupid admission invitations, wtf is that? Apparently, College Board or somehow someone decides that information are "shared" to colleges as partnership....

wilhelm• 14 years ago

I've spent seven years of my life at Opera, quitting just a few months ago. I've reached the exact same conclusions as ppk.

Owning both a browser and the applications running in it is an immensely powerful combination, as demonstrated by Google. It makes perfect sense for Facebook to want to do the same.

And as much as I dislike Facebook, I believe a buyout like this is the only way for Opera to survive long-term. They have a brilliant engineering team, but it's dwarfed by its competitors. The Presto engine is maintained by a team of just ~60 developers and ~30 testers. They're doing amazing work, but can't keep up with the faster pace of Webkit or Trident development. Combine that with the current level of mismanagement, and you're in trouble.

Without backing from a bigger player, Opera will dwindle to irrelevance as the use of its proxy browser fades away.

Tomis0213• 14 years ago

Could you elaborate on the mismanagement part?

kh812000• 14 years ago

What people are looking at is the obvious= browser.

I surmise the real reason for Facebook to buy Opera is not that. Opera owns the #1 mobile ad mediation platform : AdMarvel and has augmented it with Mobile Theory and 4th Screen Advertising.

THAT IS THE KEY. MOBILE MONETIZATION VIA ANALYTICS OF FB DATA AND ADMARVEL.

Face opera

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