A New Sweetener Has Joined the Ranks of Aspartame and Stevia

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/04/sugar-substitutes-brazzein-stevia-aspartame/678192/

by kryster • 2 years ago

25 53 2 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazzein

tomcam• 2 years ago

Damnit, gorilla taste receptors don't recognize the sweetness. Now I need to find a better treat for my overweight gorillas.

pureheartlover3• 2 years ago

There was an incredible post on HN a couple years ago about a guy who would test experimental sweeteners and one of them left his mouth tasting sweet for several months. I tried to find it in the past but never could.

user_78325• 2 years ago

Was it his mouth or his kitchen? I remember a post about someone who ordered a sweetener from some Chinese industrial supplier and accidentally spilled/destroyed the packaging in his kitchen, making everything cooked there taste sweet for a long time.

pureheartlover3• 2 years ago

Possibly - The one I recall just had a hobby of trying out experimental sweeteners.

aaron695• 2 years ago

Here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9440566

RealityVoid2• 2 years ago

It sounded like sucralose(although it turned out to be neotame).

Sucralose is very potent, one knife tip sweetens 4l of water and the powder is very fine and tends to linger around. It's also very cheap.

hinkley6• 2 years ago

cleaning?

cmmeur01• 2 years ago

At an old job I was responsible for blending custom alcoholic drinks before we sent it to bottling. One required stevia which when you opened the bag it came in would float into the air everywhere (it’s a super fine powder) and being young and stupid we didn’t wear any masks or anything. For the next couple days you’d have a constant taste of it in your mouth / nose that reminded me of sweetarts candy.

hinkley6• 2 years ago

That's can't be good for your lungs.

gjsman-1000• 2 years ago

Was it possibly Neotame?

lesuorac• 2 years ago

Did you also see this thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36853090

I have a slight fascination with sweeteners. About five years ago I imported a kilo of "Neotame" sweetener from a chem factory in Shanghai. It was claimed to be 10,000-12,000 times sweeter than sugar. It's a white powder and came in a metal can with a crimped lid and typically plain chemical labeling. Supposedly it is FDA-approved and a distant derivative of aspartame. US customs held it for two weeks before sending it on to Colorado with no explanation. When received, the box was covered in "inspected" tape and they had put the canister in a clear plastic bag. The crimped lid looked like a rottweiler chewed it open and white powder was all over the inside of the bag. I unwisely opened this in my kitchen with no respirator as advised by the MSDS which I read after the fact (I am not a smart man).

Despite careful handling of the bag, it is so fine in composition that a small cloud of powder erupted in front of me and a hazy layer of the stuff settled over the kitchen. Eyes burning and some mild choking from inhaling the cloud, I instantly marveled at how unbelievably sweet the air tasted, and it was delicious. For several hours I could still taste it on my lips. The poor customs inspector will have had a lasting memory of that container I'm pretty sure.

Even after a thorough wipe-down, to this day I encounter items in my kitchen with visually imperceptible amounts of residue. After touching it and getting even microscopic quantities of the stuff on a utensil or cup, bowl, plate, whatever, it adds an intense element of sweetness to the food being prepared, sometimes to our delight. I still have more than 900g even after giving away multiple baggies to friends and family (with proper safety precautions).

We have been hooked on it since that first encounter. I keep a 100mL bottle of solution in the fridge which is used to fill smaller dropper bottles. I've prepared that 100mL bottle three times over five years, and that works out to about 12g of personal (somewhat heavy) usage for two people in that time. Probably nowhere near the LD50.

I carry a tiny 30mL dropper bottle of the solution for sweetening the nasty office coffee and anything else as appropriate. Four drops to a normal cup of coffee. We sweeten home-carbonated beverages, oatmeal, baked goods (it is heat stable), use it in marinades, and countless other applications.

I don't know if it's safe. The actual quantity used is so incredibly tiny that it seems irrelevant. I'd sweeten my coffee with polonium-210 if it could be done in Neotame-like quantities. Between this, a salt shaker loaded with MSG and a Darwin fish on my car, I'm doomed anyway.

pureheartlover3• 2 years ago

Probably. Apparently neotame is 5000~ times sweeter than sucrose. Another artificial sweetener 'lugduname' has a sweetness up to 300,000x sucrose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugduname

jlund-molfese• 2 years ago

https://archive.is/5lyRR

hinkley6• 2 years ago

Stop trying to trick your body into thnking you ate something you did not.

It makes your body cranky.

rjh29• 2 years ago

No it doesn't.

hinkley6• 2 years ago

The wheels of insulin reaction starts when you taste sweets, (both in your mouth and receptors in the intestines), not when the sugar hits your bloodstream.

Your body is affected by the experience of sweet, not just the fact of sugar.

hombre_fatal• 2 years ago

This “there must not be any free lunch” intuition is regularly defeated across history. It takes for granted the fact that we are standing on top of thousands of free lunches.

renewiltord• 2 years ago

Does anyone know how to get the original oubli fruit/berry in the US? Seems interesting.

nullserver• 2 years ago

Was having a lot of blood clots. Eventually found that artificial sugar erythritol was a major cause. Advil being the other one i found.

ohmyiv• 2 years ago

Thanks for the info about Advil. I didn't know NSAIDs increased the risk of blood clots.

swozey• 2 years ago

The best thing I ever did for my health, fat %, inflammation that caused all sorts of issues like brain fog and skin issues, etc was to completely void sugar from my life. It took awhile to get used to drinking black coffee and I drank 2 liters of mountain dew my entire teenage years which turned to water but years later I cant touch anything sweet it absolutely disgusts me.

edit: Not completely, I don't 0 sugar, just don't add it to anything.

XorNot• 2 years ago

Black coffee is more then sugar free though: you're cutting out the milk as well.

Which is what I did: over a day and a serious coffee habit, that adds up to quite a lot of empty calories.

user_78325• 2 years ago

Does anyone know if there are any issues with sugar alcohols (like maltitol/sorbitol etc)? I see them in medical syrups at times.

Bonus fun fact related to the regulation of such sweeteners: even though the EU is generally considered more "strict", the sweetener cylamate is banned in the US while you can buy it at a European Lidl/Aldi (which is also the source of my sweetener bottle.)

whaleofatw2022• 2 years ago

Too much and you might get a laxative effect.

doctorhandshake• 2 years ago

Possibly increased risk of heart attack and stroke. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/erythri...

user_78325• 2 years ago

Thanks, that's a fair bit disappointing to be honest haha

el_benhameen• 2 years ago

Anecdotal, but they mess with my stomach, even in small amounts. I can tell when I’ve accidentally eaten a food with sugar alcohols because I’ll get an unpleasant gurgling soon after.

user_78325• 2 years ago

Thanks, that's interesting to know. Someone else commented about how they might effectively mess the gut microbiome.

hinkley6• 2 years ago

Also potential disruption of gut biota, since some 'bad' bacteria can consume sugar alcohols.

A lot of my problems started around the same time I started binge chewing gum, but that was not the only factor in play so who knows what really happened. I started binge chewing gum because job stress was starting to give me TMJ.

jongjong2• 2 years ago

IMO, stevia can have a superior flavor profile to sugar for certain specific use cases. I really like it in ice teas because the sweetness comes on slow and that makes the drink seem more refreshing. Also, I can't taste any aftertaste because the tea leaves themselves produce a mild, pleasant bitter aftertaste which is conveniently paired with the longer-lasting sweetness of stevia.

That said I can see why stevia would not work for Coca Cola because you don't want the underlying bitterness of caffeine to hit you first without any sweetness. Coke needs to hit you fast. The thing about coke is that it's all about the first sip. It's as much about flavor as it is about freshness. The first sip must overwhelm your senses and energize you.

With ice teas, on the other hand, the flavors don't have to come on straight away because you're looking for freshness first and foremost. I think the pleasantness of it is mostly about cooling and soothing. You don't want it to hit you too fast; so a slow-onset flavor profile works better.

extraduder_ire• 2 years ago

That said I can see why stevia would not work for Coca Cola because you don't want the underlying bitterness of caffeine to hit you first without any sweetness.

There was a short-lived product called coca cola life, with a green label that I first saw in 2015 that was sweetened with stevia alongside sugar. I never tried it.

quickslowdown2• 2 years ago

My mind is kind of blown reading this entire thread. I've always thought stevia tasted like bitter ass, not a redeeming flavor in the entire profile, ruins every food or beverage it's in, etc. I've never met anyone personally who likes it, but it turns out a bunch of nerds on the Internet do!

jongjong2• 2 years ago

Did you heat it up? Like in a hot beverage? I find it tastes really bitter if you heat it up. I don't recall any bitterness if it's not cooked.

derekperkins• 2 years ago

My thoughts exactly

mise_en_place• 2 years ago

I may get downvoted for this, but wouldn’t a high sucrose and high carbohydrate diet improve insulin resistance? If you minimize beta oxidation, then in theory, your body will adapt to primarily utilizing glycolysis for energy. The Randle cycle shows that poor glucose metabolism leads to preference of beta oxidation.

Projectiboga• 2 years ago

I'm a type 1 since 1982, went on 'human insulin' Regulal and NPH. I quickly was on a 3,000 plus calorie diet. I never altered it besides moving two of my three snacks into meals. I consume about 60% carbohydrates, I do about 30% fat. So I consume fresh brewed Yerba Mate with oolong added. Both mild and high in thenine. I also take melatonin. My insulin use is low for by body weight. Interesting that not avoiding sugar could be ok with a balanced diet and actually help the insulin be less oxidative.

darkmuck• 2 years ago

I asked Claude 3 Opus about this, here is its response:

It's an interesting theory, but the relationship between diet and insulin resistance is more complex. Here's a breakdown:

The Randle Cycle: The Randle Cycle, also known as the glucose-fatty acid cycle, suggests that high availability of fatty acids for beta-oxidation can inhibit glucose utilization. This is because the products of fatty acid metabolism (acetyl-CoA and NADH) directly inhibit key enzymes involved in glucose metabolism, such as pyruvate dehydrogenase and phosphofructokinase.

High Sucrose and Carbohydrate Diet: A diet high in sucrose and carbohydrates can lead to increased blood glucose levels, which in turn stimulates insulin secretion. Chronically elevated insulin levels can lead to insulin resistance over time, as cells become less responsive to the effects of insulin.

Adapting to Glycolysis: While minimizing beta-oxidation and relying primarily on glycolysis for energy might seem like a way to improve glucose metabolism, it's not that simple. Excess glucose, if not utilized by cells or stored as glycogen, can be converted to fatty acids through de novo lipogenesis, contributing to increased fat storage and potential insulin resistance.

Insulin Resistance and Glucose Metabolism: Insulin resistance is characterized by impaired glucose uptake and utilization by cells, leading to high blood glucose levels. Poor glucose metabolism can indeed lead to a preference for beta-oxidation, as suggested by the Randle Cycle. However, this is a consequence of insulin resistance rather than a cause.

In conclusion, while the theory of adapting to glycolysis by minimizing beta-oxidation is interesting, a high sucrose and carbohydrate diet is more likely to contribute to insulin resistance rather than improve it. Insulin resistance is a complex metabolic disorder influenced by various factors, including diet, physical activity, and genetics.

carterschonwald2• 2 years ago

So I actually tried out one of the newer fda approved aspartame related compounds, called Neotame. It’s pretty potent. Nice flavor profile.

leland• 2 years ago

Allulose! Why isn’t it more popular? Tastes almost exactly like refined white cane sugar, caramelizes like sugar, yet has almost no calories and doesn’t make blood sugar spike. Just had some hot chocolate made with it and I’d give you $5 if you could tell it from regular sugar.

RealityVoid2• 2 years ago

I wonder where can I buy it? I have been doing the rounds experimenting with artificial sweeteners and it's actually very interesting seeing how different they are.

jitl2• 2 years ago

I bought a big bag on Amazon and really like it. This is the one I got (not an affiliate link, copied from the Amazon iPhone app) https://a.co/d/2w8I9py

tssva• 2 years ago

Until last year I hadn’t heard of allulose. Through the course of the year I started trying some new sugar free products. As usual most of them were a disappointment but I noticed a trend. The ones that I enjoyed and actually satisfied my occasional sugar craving contained allulose.

jitl2• 2 years ago

Allulose is great. I can’t stand the other ones (omg monkfruit is the worst) but allulose tastes pretty spot on, very little strangeness.

I like that it dissolves more easily than sugar in cold or room temperature liquids. I’d recommend to start slowly with it since it made me a bit farty initially.

_nalply• 2 years ago

I discovered that it's better to avoid sweeteners completely and consume sugars in small amounts. Both seem to be bad for the body but differently. Sweeteners make me hungry. Sugars make me high then low. After a few years of low sweetness I started to find milk sweet. I can drink coffee without sugar because milk by itself tastes sweet enough (lactose). I completely stopped with soft drinks and dilute juices with the same to double the amount of water or just drink plain water.

A New Sweetener Has Joined the Ranks of Aspartame and Stevia

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