The Defenestrations of Prague (1419–1997)

https://publicdomainreview.org/essay/windows-onto-history/

by benbreen • 2 years ago

96 80 2 years ago

Redster7• 2 years ago

Went to Prague last year and saw the very windows that at least one defenstration used. It was so high up and the window sills and leaves were combined about 5ft wide. So it's not like they just knocked someone through glass. They had to really push them off the ledge. Really sad how some hotheads triggered some of the wars in Europe.

If they really thought the guys were so evil, they should have tried them, not defenestrated them. They knew better.

bandrami4• 2 years ago

If it was the 1618 one (that's the one you can see from the courtyard), they wrestled him out the window and then beat his hands with their scabbards as he hung on to the sill for dear life. Fortunately he landed in a pile of horse manure and suffered only minor injuries.

Redster7• 2 years ago

Yikes. That's the one I was thinking of. Yeah and it's not like the guys inside would've seen the pile of manure. It was not "ye joke".

lolinder2• 2 years ago

FWIW, the horse manure story was probably invented as a reaction to the Catholic explanation that they were saved by divine providence. The whole event is so steeped in religious propaganda from both sides that I don't think we can conclusively say what happened except that both did in fact survive.

0823498723498722• 2 years ago

I'm sure we can all come up with twenty-first century examples of people who knew better revealing preferences for —instead of Themis— Nemesis.

adamnemecek3• 2 years ago

Really sad how some hotheads triggered some of the wars in Europe.

Their grievances were justified, religious freedoms were being curtailed.

Redster7• 2 years ago

Grievances, yes. Actions, no.

lolinder2• 2 years ago

My understanding of the 1618 defenestration is that war was essentially inevitable by that point.

The Holy Roman Empire had always been fragile—more of a loose alliance of princedoms than a proper kingdom or empire—and yet less than one year into his reign Ferdinand II started rolling back the strong religious protections that a large number of his vassals had begun to take for granted. There was no way that Ferdinand's approach to ruling the quarrelsome and religiously diverse German states wouldn't have led to war, even if these specific hotheads had kept their cool in that specific building on that specific day.

Redster7• 2 years ago

Yes, I think that your take is correct.

sakjur2• 2 years ago

They did try them. That was why they threw them out the window.

I’m not sure a more level headed trial of the catholics in Prague would’ve prevented the war for long. That particular power struggle could’ve easily boiled over for any reason.

dekhn2• 2 years ago

For some reason "defenestration" sounds like disemboweling to me, but every time I mention this to german speakers they also point out that "fenster" means "window"

gmueckl• 2 years ago

I think the common root here is the Latin word "fenestra". There is also the French word "fenêtre".

wk_end• 2 years ago

There's something intrinsically funny about that word. I think part of it is that it sounds like of like "masturbation", and part of it is that it's so unusually specific - why do we need a word for throwing someone out a window?

dekhn2• 2 years ago

Exactly!

tmoravec2• 2 years ago

why do we need a word for throwing someone out a window?

Well, "defenestration" is a sort of inflexion of a common word (in Latin or German, which was a common language in Prague in 1618).

Wikipedia has quite a few examples, so having a specific word might be useful in the end: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestration

2devnull• 2 years ago

I think the answer about why it’s so specific is if you just say you threw someone out of a window people might assume it was only one story high and not lethal. Defenestration tells you that it was a high window, and often implies the ejection of the owner or a legitimate occupant. Similar to shock vs electrocution.

jaza• 2 years ago

Even if (this is a challenge for the average English speaker like myself) you maintain in your conscious mind "fenestra = window", I think it's still so funny, because it sounds like you're removing the window from the person (a la decapitation).

inglor_cz2• 2 years ago

When I registered on Reddit, I chose a username DefenestrationPraha, because I thought at that time that no one in the Anglosphere would be aware of those obscure pastimes of our ancestors.

Little did I know that defenestrations of Prague are one of the few things Czech that the Internet really cares about.

Redster7• 2 years ago

That's very funny. It's like the time that I was in a pub in Cambridge and the gentleman* next to me said, "Y'know, the US and the UK, they go way back. The US used to be a colony of the UK actually." and I laughed, like, "Yes, and we built our entire national identity off of ending our relationship." He was dumbfounded. He was surprised that I even knew details about it. Which makes me laugh just typing this because of how thoroughly ingrained that information is to many Americans.

*Who, to be fair, had actually been educated at the "other place". (I joke as someone who did not go to college.)

Nashooo• 2 years ago

However, not many seem to remember New York being a Dutch colony. It's where we get the names Harlem and Brooklyn from among others.

lupire3• 2 years ago

It's the most famous piece of European history for US students.

Keep that in mind when working on brand promotion for your startup. Eccentric behavior with a mysterious name gets attention.

kibwen• 2 years ago

Well, as long as we strictly scope "European history" to everything between the fall of Rome and World War I. :)

int_19h3• 2 years ago

The rest of us are just envious that your ancestors got to do what our ancestors were surely dreaming of. ~

LAC-Tech2• 2 years ago

There's something very, very energising to me about a mob of people physically dealing with corrupt rulers. A sort of pure expression of democracy.

metabagel• 2 years ago

In Russia, the corrupt ruler defenestrates you.

panick21_4• 2 years ago

It didn't end great for the people in Czechia either.

lupire3• 2 years ago

Seems more like anarchy.

48864w6ui3• 2 years ago

At least ochlocracy

jajko• 2 years ago

Depends on who explains the crowd who is good and who is evil. Mob on its own ain't the smartest bunch in the room

panick21_4• 2 years ago

The representative of the government who systematically kills and tortures the population for not having the right believe in Jesus isn't that hard of a target to identify.

kian3• 2 years ago

Democracy: Rule of the Mob. Pretty sure the above sentiment is why the US is a republic...

tomoyoirl• 2 years ago

France during the Revolution, eh?

LAC-Tech2• 2 years ago

Owch, yeah. I suppose it's always a good idea you have a backup regime that's actually competent or you'll get revolutionary France.

pfdietz• 2 years ago

And then leading to a war that reduced the population of what would become Germany by 1/3.

mongol• 2 years ago

So what other defenestrations are there? The ones in Prague are the ones I have heard about. I remember some movie scenes also, Axel Foley being defenestrated comes to mind. But was the word invented to describe the Prague events ?

pndy• 2 years ago

So what other defenestrations are there? The ones in Prague are the ones I have heard about.

All the "window accidents" in Russia involving people who angered Dobby of Kremlin could be counted in, I believe.

Polish Wikipedia mentions a defenestration case [1] during urban revolt in Wrocław (back then Vratislav as it was under Czech crown rule) that took place between 18-22 July of 1418, so a year before the Prague's

[1] https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestracja_wroc%C5%82awska

48864w6ui3• 2 years ago

I doubt it: there's a castle less than 10 km from me which had a former owner defenestrated during medieval times (when who was left was more important, in property disputes, than who was right)

kian3• 2 years ago

I'm stealing that parenthetical...

0823498723498722• 2 years ago

2 Kings 9:30-33

And when Jehu was come to Jezreel, Jezebel heard of it; and she painted her face, and tired her head, and looked out at a window. And as Jehu entered in at the gate, she said, Had Zimri peace, who slew his master? And he lifted up his face to the window, and said, Who is on my side? who? And there looked out to him two or three eunuchs. And he said, Throw her down. So they threw her down: and some of her blood was sprinkled on the wall, and on the horses: and he trode her under foot.

TIL Gaunt Belter may have been channeling a biblical reference with "Blood's on the wall, beratnas!"

HPsquared• 2 years ago

Speaking of defenestration scenes in movies, Die Hard has always been my benchmark.

philwelch2• 2 years ago

Basketball fans might remember the time Charles Barkley threw a man through a plate glass window: https://archive.is/yZra5

thealig• 2 years ago

events with historical significance are far more interesting than these kind of movie/popular references that don't mean much

inferiorhuman• 2 years ago

There used to be a defenestration building in San Francisco on Sixth Street. Interesting art installation, but it's long since been dismantled.

G3rn0ti2• 2 years ago

So what other defenestrations are there?

There are three official counts of Bohemian uprising culminating in the defenestration of officials:

1) In 1419 a Hussite crowd killed town council members in the then New Town of Prague. Notably, Hussites were a movement of reformed Christians a hundred years before Protestantism. This first official defenestration triggered the Bohemian Wars a struggle for power between Catholics and Hussites.

2) In 1483 a violent mob ejected the mayor of the Old Town of Prague through a window of the town hall. It established equal rights between the Hussites and Roman Catholics.

3) In 1618 the Catholic counts Martinice and Slavata were thrown out of a window in the K̵a̵r̵l̵š̵t̵e̵j̵n̵ Castle of Prague after they ordered to halt the construction of a Protestant church. Eventually it sparked the Thirty Years‘ War.

Most notably there is also:

4) the suicide declared murder of the foreign minister of Czechoslovakia Jan Masaryk in 1948 by Russian agents is also referred to by the „4th defenestration of Prague“. Although used with an ironic undertone AFAIK.

sideeffffect• 2 years ago

Regarding 3), you probably meant the Prague Castle, not Karlštejn, right? Karlštejn is far from Prague.

tim333• 2 years ago

Falling out of windows seems a popular way of death for critics of Putin in modern Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_b...

Also a friend of a friend was apparently killed that way by Pete Doherty's drug dealers.

kjkjadksj2• 2 years ago

Popular among the CIA as well.

pedrosorio• 2 years ago

During Portuguese revolts to regain independence from Spain in 1640, the secretary of state was defenestrated too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Vasconcelos

analog31• 2 years ago

I've read that Abraham Lincoln climbed out of a window to prevent the Illinois legislature from having a quorum at one point.

rhelz• 2 years ago

Let’s not forget the enfenistration of Bag End, when Gandalf discovered Sam spying on him and Frodo, and then reached out the window and pulled him in.

ggm• 2 years ago

If you visit Pražský Hrad (Prague Castle) the scene of the third defenestration, the window is remarkably small. It's not a giant room, the glazed tile heater is dominant. Only one or two of the paintings seem to capture the spirit of the place.

jonatron• 2 years ago

There is the BFRC, the British Fenestration Rating Council. So if fenestration is to do with installing windows, you'd think defenestration is to do with removing windows, but it isn't.

brookst• 2 years ago

See I learned about defenestration first, so I just assumed BFRC had to do with throwing people into rooms through the window.

_nalply• 2 years ago

With a catapult maybe?

DrNosferatu• 2 years ago

“Defenestration” is my favorite word in the whole wide world <3

The Defenestrations of Prague (1419–1997)

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