United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/18/united-arab-emirates-is-using-cloud-seeding-tech-to-make-it-rain.html

by AlgoRitmo • 2 years ago

52 64 2 years ago

hunter-2• 2 years ago

I live in Dubai, and the rains this year appear to be more frequent than the last two years. Perhaps the new seeding material is showing results

JR1427• 2 years ago

I wonder if large-scale cloud seeding could have the effect of taking rain from places that would otherwise get it?

kibwen2• 2 years ago

It would have to, unless you also consciously increase the rate of evaporation at the same time. Could be bad news for countries with arid neighbors to their direct west.

s_dev• 2 years ago

Sounds a bit like the dispute between Ethiopia and Egypt over Nile Water (Ethiopia is building a dam) so definitely plenty of political precedent for conflict over water resources and this will exacerbate this.

gorpy7• 2 years ago

I don’t think it can be assumed. if the rain increased vegetation, i wouldn’t rule out an increased water cycle and greater amount of water in the area in general. Honestly, i wouldn’t be surprised if it benefited neighbors. I’m no expert and there are countless variables, maybe a high percentage of the rain used then sent right into the ground as waste water- never to have the chance to evaporate. or never taken up by vegetation at all. Time reveals all, despite whether this was a hasty experiment.

justrealist• 2 years ago

Possible but a lot of rain just falls in the middle of the ocean, so not a great loss.

barbazoo3• 2 years ago

If that moisture they're making fall out of the sky is guaranteed to end up falling above the ocean otherwise then sure. Otherwise you'll get conflict.

globular-toast• 2 years ago

Which will now wash a load of filth from the land into the ocean instead.

whalesalad• 2 years ago

the moisture has to come from somewhere, nothin is free

beefman• 2 years ago

https://www.makerain.com/

ilrwbwrkhv• 2 years ago

It's amazing how much new tech is getting tested in the middle east. In the next 30 years I think they are the future.

rob74• 2 years ago

This tech is not really new - in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, "cloud seeding" airplanes have been flying for years (to avoid hailstorms rather than to make it rain), although the efficacy of the method is disputed, so it's not really widespread. I only learned that this is done where I live when I saw a small airplane flying dangerously close to an approaching storm (which GA aircraft usually do their best to avoid) and then read an article about how they miscalculated the strength/direction of the storm and barely managed to avoid it.

Wikipedia article (only available in German): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagelabwehr#Einsatz_in_Deutsch...

Article about the history of anti-hail airplanes in the Rosenheim region: https://www.hagelabwehr-rosenheim.de/geschichtliches.php

volleygman180• 2 years ago

It's been happening in the US for quite awhile too.

For example, Colorado regularly performs cloud seeding and other weather modification techniques - https://cwcb.colorado.gov/focus-areas/supply/weather-modific...

lm28469• 2 years ago

It's a huge pile of dead sand with load of petrol... They're fighting the clock to stay relevant by buying all kind of foreign assets and attracting investors but no amount of tech will change the fundamentals

barbazoo3• 2 years ago

The United Nations projects that by 2025, 1.8 billion people will face absolute water scarcity across the world. The Middle East stood out as one of the most water-stressed areas with around 83% of the population in the region prone to experiencing high levels of water stress.
Weather forecasters at the center can observe precipitation patterns in clouds and identify suitable clouds to seed, with the aim of increasing the rate of rainfall. Once they spot the right cloud, they instruct pilots to take to the air with their specialized aircrafts loaded with hygroscopic flares on the plane’s wings.

I wonder if someone did the math of what that would look like at scale. How much would using kerosene to deliver the cloud seed material to introduce rain accelerate the problem we're trying to solve here? We can only hope that we find a way to electrify that fleet of airplanes or switch to something that's much less energy intensive like drones.

genman5• 2 years ago

The weather is not the problem. Overpopulation is. And it is a local problem, so limiting population elsewhere doesn't help.

lukan3• 2 years ago

You can call it overpopulation, I call it underdesalination. There is lot's of sun there and lot's of seawater.

ch4s34• 2 years ago

People screaming overpopulation are always and everywhere on a slippery slope to eugenics.

Carrying capacity is mediated by technology. WRT water, wastewater reclamation and desalination have a lot of gains that aren’t widely deployed. Also rewilding and reforestation can do a lot to mitigate creeping aridity.

Kerb_2• 2 years ago

That's acting like we don't literally trade resources globally to maintain our population level

djha-skin• 2 years ago

Cloud seeding is illegal in Utah, because you're taking rain that would have fallen on someone else's field and making it fall on your field. Water rights are a serious business here in the desert.

It's not that we can't do these things, it's just that it's not always a good idea.

calibas• 2 years ago

California & Nevada actively practice cloud seeding, I wonder if that affects Utah.

yau8edq12i2• 2 years ago

Why are these people farming in the desert to begin with?

throwaway_08932• 2 years ago

Because if they weren't, they wouldn't be there?

silisili• 2 years ago

There are a -lot- of stuff grown in desert climates, believe it or not. I think it's a fine idea, just that the price needs to accurately reflect the water usage and only then determine if it's worth continuing or not. Right now it's not really factored in at all, and cities are starting to crunch for water.

As an anecdote, I currently live in the desert, and the pecan farmers nearby use so much water that we get mosquitos pretty badly at times of the year.

ClumsyPilot2• 2 years ago

rain that would have fallen on someone else's field

Or in the ocean?

rohanm93• 2 years ago

in Dubai and whatever they’re doing this definitely working - over just the last month-ish we’ve had a 4-8 days of extremely heavy rains (and gov alerts to stay in), when just two years ago it’d be a surprise if it rained 3 days all year

csomar2• 2 years ago

That's actually climate change and the desert is prone for that. I don't think they are seeding these heavy rains as usually they can turn into a disaster.

dustfinger3• 2 years ago

The NCM said it does not use any harmful chemicals in its operations. “Our specialized aircrafts only use natural salts, and no harmful chemicals,” the organization told CNBC.

How many times have companies been wrong about the harm chemicals they use in products have on humans and the rest of nature? How many times have they simply withheld knowledge of harmful chemicals in consumer products or outright lied?

I think weather control is a mistake because I cannot trust those leading or manufacturing it. Even if someone posts a link documenting the exact chemical composition being used in these cloud seeding projects, it won't mean much to me because I am not a chemist and I am also jaded with a lifetime of reading about companies producing harmful products that they insisted are benign or even healthy. I don't trust what they publish anymore by default. We have to breath the air they are pumping those "salts" into, we have to drink the water.

jajko• 2 years ago

It shouldn't be absolutely impossible to trust them. If ie those 'salts' are naturally occurring in atmosphere in already reasonable concentration (ie I am sure few atoms of uranium are roaming around me currently, but sure as hell I hope its just few and apart) and they just locally temporarily increase their concentration to seed droplets around dew point.

But that's probably about it, anything else and I agree with you.

dustfinger3• 2 years ago

I will do some reading up on the different techniques being used. I am just at a low point in my trust for companies at the moment.

dustfinger3• 2 years ago

If ie those 'salts' are naturally occurring in atmosphere in already reasonable concentration (ie I am sure few atoms of uranium are roaming around me currently, but sure as hell I hope its just few and apart) and they just locally temporarily increase their concentration to seed droplets around dew point.

In this particular case, they are not using anything that is already floating around in our atmosphere. They created some proprietary seeding agent they only refer to as "nano material" and that it contains titanium oxide. Who knows what impact it will have.

Al Mandous said the center started manufacturing its own seeding agent called nano material, a fine salt coated with titanium oxide, which is more effective than what it uses currently.

Doesn't a seeding agent described as a "nano material" that is coated in tatanium contradict their earlier claim that they "only use natural salts?"

“Our specialized aircrafts only use natural salts, and no harmful chemicals,”

csomar2• 2 years ago

Based on this: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-arab-emirates/precipitat... I don't think it's working or making any real change.

There are two clues for this: 1. There is no mention of historical precipitation improvements in the article; and 2. If it was successful I'd expect more countries to be doing it.

seanmcdirmid• 2 years ago

China practices cloud seeding. You find it being used in odd places, but it isn't very rare.

avens19• 2 years ago

Here in Calgary we use cloud seeding to reduce the impact of hail storms. If meteorologists predict a hail storm, they will seed the clouds outside of urban territory to reduce the property damage caused by the hail

nf3• 2 years ago

I imagine it would take a very serious effort to green up a hard desert like that, but it is well known that forests are capable of generating rain through photosynthesis and evapotranspiration.

Some large scale projects have already been undertaken, such as the restoration of the loess plateau in China, or the currently ongoing effort to establish a green belt across Africa to stop the Sahara desert from spreading southward.

United Arab Emirates is using cloud seeding tech to make it rain

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