Knockoff Iranian drone sold on Alibaba was meant for war, documents show

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3akeqk/knockoff-iranian-drone-sold-on-alibaba-was-meant-for-war-documents-show

by rntn • 3 years ago

78 59 3 years ago

I never fail to be amazed by the shameless business culture in China.

“Too many people want to buy it, it’s not a good thing for us,”
“We are afraid that Alibaba platform will be frozen if Alibaba knows that it’s a weapon.”
“This item is customized for one big client in UKR [Ukraine],”
“Our government don’t allow us to sell to countries involved in war,”

What do they possibly think they're gaining by volunteering this information?

ganeshkrishnan• 3 years ago

No chance in hell it's going to Ukraine. If Russia loses, there is a nuclear powered chaotic nation right next to China which will be it's worst nightmare. There is less than zero possibility of China sending anything to Ukraine.

These statements are just to mislead the public into thinking they are supporting ukraine.

kube-system3• 3 years ago

I don't think some random Alibaba seller gives a crap about foreign policy over their bottom line.

Muromec2• 3 years ago

If russia can buy American chips and Dutch lithography machines through 3rd countries, sure Ukraine can get some drone on ali.

Suddenly some farmers in * get obscure country from the list * will decide it’s a good idea to deliver pesticides from the air because reasons. For sure supplier will see right through it and will care about plausible deniability first.

The whole titanium cia story happens more often than it doesn’t

gweinberg• 3 years ago

I think there is already a nuclear powered chaotic nation right next to China. Why would Russia be more dangerous if they lose than if they win?

T-A• 3 years ago

I can think of "one big client in UKR [Ukraine]" which isn't Ukraine and is already using this kind of drone.

lupusreal• 3 years ago

"big client in Ukraine" could conceivably mean Russian military/mercenary forces who are literally in Ukraine, having invaded Ukraine.

Maybe a confusing way of phrasing it due to translation?

anigbrowl• 3 years ago

They probably aren't familiar with US journalistic practices about background, on/off record etc. Prudence would dictate more circumspection, but I prefer frankness to the obfuscatory nonsense that US PR spokespersons foist on the public, with the help of journalists who uncritically repeat it.

contravariant• 3 years ago

Somehow the golden standard for journalism became 'never ask a question you don't know the answer to', which is kind of the opposite of what questions are supposed to achieve.

carabiner• 3 years ago

China is more capitalist than the US.

noman-land• 3 years ago

In what way?

porkbeer• 3 years ago

Is that why 1/3 of industry is state owned? /s

csomar• 3 years ago

They are not volunteering the information, from their perspective. They are just venting their frustration that their government is not allowing them to do business. They can't really see the geopolitics of it; and morally they think anything that sells is Okay. Not that the West is any different, though usually people in the West are more reasonable than the average Chinese.

rahimnathwani• 3 years ago

"usually people in the West are more reasonable than the average Chinese"

What makes you think that?

0cf8612b2e1e• 3 years ago

Curious what separates a military drone vs a drone used in war. Surely most of the improved flight capabilities would also be useful to consumers who just want to tool around on the weekends.

How long before these military specs filter into the consumer market?

Muromec2• 3 years ago

Where do you think those FPV kill-drones are coming from now?

Ancapistani• 3 years ago

Chinese parts, purchased by third party nations, designed and assembled in Ukraine.

Why?

kube-system3• 3 years ago

One difference between suicide drones and hobbyist drones is the design lifetime.

IIRC some of the gasoline engines used on suicide drones are built with a peculiar design that is powerful but wears out in just a matter of minutes. But that's acceptable because it'll still outlast the lifetime of the vehicle.

Another difference is payload configuration.

vdaea• 3 years ago

"PlayStation 2 a Weapons Development Platform?"

https://games.slashdot.org/story/00/04/16/1953243/ps2-a-weap...

surfingdino• 3 years ago

You don't want military drones for consumer applications. Consumer drones are designed to last the length of warranty + 1 day. Military drones are designed to last long enough to deliver their cargo or provide essential intel. Because of their limited lifespan, some of them are made of cardboard https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/09/13/cardboard-drone-v...

paganel3• 3 years ago

Those cardboard-made drones were just a PR move, they never saw real battle, or at least I have never seen any videos involving them (and God knows I refresh r/UkraineRussiaReport/ quite a lot).

dist-epoch• 3 years ago

What Ukraine wants right now is DJIs, not Bayraktars.

So it's a bit of reverse, consumer drone tech is superior to military tech when you take price and availability into account.

m4rtink2• 3 years ago

For frontline use, sure. But they definitely also want cheap long range cruise missiles.

Its already hard for them with Russia using the Iranian Shahed scooter engine drones, but I don't think Russia will be really able to defend its territory against similar drones once Ukraine gets its cheap long range drone production going at speed.

LegitShady5• 3 years ago

If ukraine could get a bunch of shahed clones themselves they'd happily use the on russia. They'd also get smaller drones too. They're both useful.

paganel3• 3 years ago

Curious what separates a military drone vs a drone used in war.

Right now, not that much, as lots and lots of civilian drones are used both by the Russians and Ukrainians for surveillance or for grenade drops.

Usually military drones are bigger (like this Shaheed knock-off from this article) and can do more (usually more destructive) stuff compared to civilian drones, like the Russian Lancet drones.

tempestn• 3 years ago

What is technically the difference between a suicide UAV and a missile? Just speed? Or does it need to have a rocket engine to be a "missile"?

Actually, I guess maybe suicide drones are a subset of missiles.

CPLX• 3 years ago

Loitering?

incompatible• 3 years ago

Yeah, basically a cheap cruise missile. The V-1 flying bomb used in WW2 is classified likewise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb

Edit: it seems missiles must be jet or rocket powered, definitionally.

ajross• 3 years ago

It's not a firm thing, but generally "missiles" are understood to be entirely autonomous, where "drones" are operated under some level of human control. But indeed, the distinction is increasingly squishy in the modern world.

LegitShady5• 3 years ago

missiles have guidance systems but they don't need to be entirely autonomous. For example, the Spike NLOS is a TV guided missile - the operator sees the view from the nose and aims it for greater precision against unmarked targets at range.

LegitShady5• 3 years ago

I think it technically counts as a missile, but also fits the categories of typical UAVs so there's some ambiguity as to what the "correct" name is.

1024core• 3 years ago

How much?? How many dollar you want??

NullPrefix• 3 years ago

The XHZ-50 Fixed Wing UAV was listed at a price of $57,000

LegitShady5• 3 years ago

“This item is customized for one big client in UKR [Ukraine],”

Is his name Vladmir?

tdeck• 3 years ago

I'm amazed someone would have enough trust in a random Alibaba vendor to buy a weapons system from them.

tim3332• 3 years ago

You don't necessarily have to just click buy with Paypal and have it turn up. You could also fly out to China and have a look first. Actually one thing I've noticed is Alibaba makes it easy to contact the seller directly whereas ebay and Amazon try to prevent that.

rasz• 3 years ago

DJI Agras T30 is coming up nicely, here with PKM and AT grenade launcher attached https://t.me/karymat/5732 ;)

Knockoff Iranian drone sold on Alibaba was meant for war, documents show

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