8GB RAM on M3 MacBook Pro 'Analogous to 16GB' on PCs, Claims Apple

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/08/8gb-ram-m3-macbook-pro-like-16-gb-pc/

by tosh • 3 years ago

19 51 3 years ago

nness• 3 years ago

With it's shared memory, 8GB on an MBP isn't even analogous to 8GB on a PC... irrespective of how efficiently it is utilised.

pjmlp7• 3 years ago

Quite right, there are lots of good things to like on Apple hardware and NeXTSTEP heritage, at least for me, however the whole "you're holding it wrong" narrative that pops up from time to time on various matters, it certainly isn't one.

snvzz• 3 years ago

Ridiculous, and shameful.

daviddever23box• 3 years ago

How so? What's your day-to-day experience?

dharmab2• 3 years ago

My day to day experience is that I regularly need over 30GB of RAM for simulation and media workflows, and I don't use my Macs for them because PC RAM is so much cheaper.

dTal• 3 years ago

My day-to-day experience is that a 12 gigabyte dataset will not fit into 8 gigabytes of RAM no matter whose logo is on the case. A byte is a byte.

ttfkam3• 3 years ago

With 8GB, you will swap to SSD more. Intelligent algorithms and fast SSDs will indeed keep things running quickly and smoothly for the most part. However, the number of write cycles on the SSD will increase substantially compared to its larger-RAM peers. Combined with the likelihood that someone buying an 8GB machine will also have a smaller SSD due to budget, there is a much higher probability of failure in the shorter term. And once only one of the two SSD chips fails, you lose all your data, the BIOS, the ability to boot, and all other utility from this disposable, non-upgradable, non-repairable hardware.

If the BIOS were on a separate chip and they used NVMe storage, this wouldn't be a big problem. But they aren't, so it is.

You care about Right to Repair or you don't.

foldr8• 3 years ago

The first MacBooks with non-replaceable SSDs came out in 2016. We don't seem to have seen a significant problem with SSD failures.

voakbasda• 3 years ago

I have a coworker that has lost two MacBooks due to drive failure in the past two years. I would never touch one of them unless I wanted to lose my data.

bergen2• 3 years ago

The 2018 Macbooks had already 8 or 16GB, I'd argue in 5 years the average space needed for a program has significantly risen since then, causing greater wear now then in 2016/2018. https://everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2018.h...

ksec2• 3 years ago

We don't seem to have seen a significant problem with SSD failures.

We don't seem to have seen a significant problem with SSD failures for Intel Mac. But all the Apple Silicon Mac has seen significantly higher percentage of SSD failures. Louis Rossmann has ranting about this for sometime already.

Zetobal• 3 years ago

eh... basically all 12 inch 2016-2018 macbook airs have failed ssds.

dangus4• 3 years ago

Is there data out there showing that Macs with 8GB are hitting swap in the manner you describe? That’s a major assumption of your comment. (Even if this is happening, it should be noted that modern SSDs can be slammed pretty hard with writes and still last a very long time)

The memory on Apple’s systems is installed physically closer to the chip than any modular PC. I assume this is also a factor?

If the memory can more quickly and efficiently get data in and out of the processor, that means it can be released faster as well.

I’m not assuming that Apple’s memory architecture is faster than a typical PC equipped with DDR5 but I would be interested to see some kind of deep dive in this area because on the surface it seems like there are major hardware differences and a more customized platform on the Apple side.

Another example where this same concept comes into play is game consoles. It’s well understood that game consoles require less total RAM for playing the same game because the hardware isn’t general purpose, it’s customized and optimized for game-specific performance with a low hardware cost and customized software.

ksec2• 3 years ago

The memory on Apple’s systems is installed physically closer to the chip than any modular PC. I assume this is also a factor?

No it is not.

Havoc• 3 years ago

I too get 8 hours of sleep done in 4 hours every night.

devit• 3 years ago

16-bit bytes?

johnboiles• 3 years ago

This was my experience. Before the M1 Pro/Max I needed to do some Apple Silicon porting for a project, so I bought the low end M1 MacBook Air with 8GB of RAM. It was amazing how well it kept up, and was generally much more snappy than my older Intel Mac with 16GB RAM. I hadn't had <16GB of RAM in years. I didn't expect it to, but it became my daily driver for several months until the Max came out.

RecycledEle• 3 years ago

So if Windows is bloated, we can overcharge for RAM!

So if she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood and therefor a witch! From Monte Python's "She's a Witch" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

yieldcrv• 3 years ago

It’s always very simple:

if you need contiguous memory for a single process then there are no tricks you can do and you need more RAM.

If you don’t need contiguous memory there are many tricks you can do and can get away with less RAM.

99% of us are in the latter.

1% of us are in the latter 99% of the time.

zshrc• 3 years ago

Modern paging/swapping can take a good bulk of higher memory pressure... but it comes at the cost of SSD wear. Mind you, even extreme SSD wear would result in ~7 year "failure" rate... but the SSD not being replaceable is kinda a slap in the face.

For most people, 8GB is still fine. You're not getting robbed, applications have become too bloated. But the price for 8GB is a bit dumb.

phendrenad2• 3 years ago

It's true, Macs just seem to be smarter with RAM allocation/paging. I'd rather have an 8GB Mac than a 16GB PC.

deafpolygon• 3 years ago

Isn't part of the problem that the 8GB RAM is shared by both the system and the GPU? Most PCs with 16G ram have discrete VRAM onboard their GPU, separate from the system RAM.

WhereIsTheTruth• 3 years ago

Bad PR response.. I don't expect a macbook to be analogous to a PC, I expect macbooks to be superior to PCs..

While I believe 8gb is plenty, 16gb should be the minimum for a workstation

We should also keep shaming bad developers for wasting memory..

Example: Jetbrains just released Fleet, watch the memory usage of their background toolbox ;)

serf• 3 years ago

ITT a lot of people are making a presumption that system memory is strictly for the use of swapping, I guess presumably for the sake of coping with Apple's decision.. but there are plenty of use-cases for large amounts of contiguous and constant-use memory space, especially when considering industrial or professional use.

8GB isn't much for most developers, even if it's special Appletanium. I need a machine that won't be severely hindered whenever I spin up a persistent server or VM that's rougher on memory footprints -- the sheer speed of memory isn't going to help so much in those kind of cases.

andrewstuart• 3 years ago

Yeah and I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

These machines will become ewaste rapidly.

karmakaze• 3 years ago

It entirely depends on what you're doing. If you're web browsing using Safari, than maybe. If you're compiling/linking a large application or doing anything with larger amounts of database data or running multiple application (micro)services, then no.

Currently my 16 GB MacBook Pro can barely run Slack well alongside my Chrome windows/tabs and IDE.

The iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max both have 8GB of RAM, so are you doing anything on your computer that's more demanding than what you do on your phone?

barryrandall• 3 years ago

8GB is enough if you only run native apps on local data. If your workflow requires 36 copies of Chrome to be running at all times or any number of virtual machines, it might as well be 8MB.

8GB RAM on M3 MacBook Pro 'Analogous to 16GB' on PCs, Claims Apple

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