The Right to Sex: Feminism in the Twenty-First Century

https://ahalbert.com/reviews/2023/07/14/the_right_to_sex.html

by ahalbert • 3 years ago

62 80 3 years ago

andai3• 3 years ago

She thinks that like therapy, hat the teaching process can be charged with eroticism, and the professors should channel that impulse towards learning.

Man, I've been taking the wrong courses!

markus_zhang• 3 years ago

I need to take that too! Men have rights too!

msla10• 3 years ago

Yeah, that should be clearly marked in the syllabus, so people who don't want an "erotic" class can take something else.

It's a massive violation.

foogazi5• 3 years ago

I read this differently

As in the therapy example: attraction might develop between the student & teacher. Instead of participating, the teacher should recognize/be aware that this exist but channel it back toward learning

vacuity22• 3 years ago

Seems weird to me. Of course it started from Freud. I'm not outright discounting it (not like I have any evidence to) but it rubs me the wrong way that attraction would even be considered as part of the learning process. Not that the kind of power dynamic described between professors and students is great either.

keldami• 3 years ago

As with almost everything. Moderate use is key.

johnchristopher7• 3 years ago

Moderate use of what ?

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...

vacuity22• 3 years ago

Sex, presumably. How parent thinks people should determine when to have sex or not, dunno.

xg15• 3 years ago

Vouched for this because I don't see any reason why this was flagged. Sorry if I overlooked something.

maze-le2• 3 years ago

I guess some people are uncomfortable with the issues raised in the article. Alternative explanation: some users are trigger-happy and flag an article based on the headline before they have a chance to read it. ~Its un-flagged by now~, and I vouched too BTW...

Its a good article and a balanced discussion about feminism would be very nice to have here...

msla10• 3 years ago

The author questions whether men are "entitled" to their own bodies.

Saying people's preferences are "Problematic" is a way to pressure them into sex: "You're a horrible person if you don't have sex with me!"

input_sh• 3 years ago

Because social studies scare HN readers.

Okay I'm half joking, but this crowd of people is simply incapable of having such discussions without the thread turning into a pile of garbage very quickly because of a no-no word in the title. (Not talking about the word sex, but feminism.)

I love having such discussions, but it's not happening here for my own sanity.

vacuity22• 3 years ago

I think one can generally find many viewpoints on politics on HN, but I suppose a few commenters who post abysmal takes can drag the whole conversation down. I don't think that's really solveable without allowing people to form their own discussion rooms. Maybe fitting for Mastodon or something.

johnchristopher7• 3 years ago

What the fuck, I was totally caught off guard by the comments in this post.

There's the usual torturing of definitions of word that pisses me off on HN (like when someone tried to convince people that flying is like running except you don't touch the ground) but in this thread there are weird accusations of call to rape based on the worst interpretation possible of an excerpt of the article.

It kinda put into perspective (and in a negative light) all the other posts that deals with philosophy or social issues.

msla10• 3 years ago

I'm not scared, I'm angry that this rape apologia is being defended.

antisthenes• 3 years ago

How can I "vouch" for this?

I'm tired of everything being flagged on HN that has even a 1% chance of painting feminism or something female-related in a negative light. I believe the community at large is able to have an honest discussion, but a certain minority of users keep shutting it down by flagging submissions before it even has a chance to begin.

msla10• 3 years ago

In college, I was with a group of white men and the topic of dating came up. One of them mentioned he wouldn’t date a black woman. To my shock, the rest of the group agreed with him. We say that nobody is entitled to a relationship with someone else, but I was still disgusted. Are they entitled to have this preference, when it comes to something as personal as dating and sex?

What the Hell is this? Of course they're "entitled" to their own bodies. What the Hell does she think, that she should be able to force them to have sex with her just because they're White and she's Black? She's a goddamned incel, treating others like props for her gratification.

Plus, since this apparently needs to be said, defending a rapist makes you a horrible person. Splitting hairs about what is and isn't rape is defending a rapist.

cuttysnark• 3 years ago

You are not entitled to sex with anyone, but people can have preferences that are problematic.

I read the whole article, but at this sentence I reached for Cmd+W, which was done via muscle memory as my eyes were rolled so far back into my head.

msla10• 3 years ago

Yeah, she doesn't explicitly condone rape, but you're a Very Horrible Person if she can't pressure you into sex.

Also, yes, dating effectively means sex and trying to defend a rapist by splitting hairs makes you horrible.

foogazi5• 3 years ago

What the Hell is this? Of course they're "entitled" to their own bodies.

The author didn’t mention bodies, but minds. The author wrotes the men said they would not even “date” a black woman

The men presumably are attracted to women, but said they would not date a woman of black skin

One of them mentioned he wouldn’t date a black woman.
Are they entitled to have this preference

msla10• 3 years ago

You're trying to defend someone who wants to use the language of social justice to pressure others into sex.

Pressuring someone into sex is disgusting, and horrible, and it doesn't matter who's doing it or why.

tehwebguy5• 3 years ago

Keep pulling that thread, you are very close to discovering something about yourself worth working on! You may not want to figure it out in public though.

LMYahooTFY• 3 years ago

This snark is unoriginal and I don't think it's constructive. It certainly falls far short of calmly pointing out what you think is important.

msla10• 3 years ago

I'm making a stand against rape and you're saying I'm mentally incompetent.

fullshark• 3 years ago

Some day an honest conversation about how in our current internet landscape boys learn about sex through consuming hardcore pornography before they even kiss someone and whether that's something we want as a society needs to happen.

ctrlp8• 3 years ago

"Lord, give me chastity and continence, but not yet!"

falcolas2• 3 years ago

whether that's something we want as a society needs to happen

Not sure there's a choice. The allure of the taboo draws people in, even when they are not interested in the acts themselves.

We should instead tailor education to assume that boys and girls will find a way to access porn.

vacuity22• 3 years ago

Do you mean that sex ed classes should discuss how porn affects expectations of sex? That does seem reasonable.

smitty1e3• 3 years ago

Until we re-prioritize the f-word--family--the rest of the discussion is tangential.

vacuity22• 3 years ago

What is the issue and what needs to be done?

ctrlp8• 3 years ago

The essayist sounds like a typical academic subversive. She offers no answers or theories, only questions, aka "...the politics of X" . In other words, she only "problematizes". Let's see:

She offers a clinical yet sexually charged analysis of porn with no policy proposals (heaven forbid). Could there be a greater cliche in the Humanities departments of modern universities? Oh wait, of course she wants safe, legal sex work as well. Bingo!

She wants to eroticize pedagogy, but also make sure the college administration is there to manage it. Oh, the frisson! Reference to Fraud, er Freud? Check! OH WOW! SUCH FREUD!

Freudianism was/is a pseudo-scientific cult that only lit-crit academics and $200/hr therapists still take seriously. Along with its marxist offshoots, its radical political program was instrumental in the 20th century european/american cultural suicide that had its death rattle in the 60s counter-culture victory. Our modern malaise, including the ubiquitous porn rotting our children's sexual health is the creature of those flower-power radicals.

But it's just "Porn" in the abstract. Not the creation of actual people whom it would be fairly easy to constrain if there is a cultural will to do so. But hiding that fact behind the massive force of inevitable abstractions demoralizes the people, er "consumers", to the point of impotence. Essayists like this loathsome academic are the priestly caste of the modern world, they baffle and confuse decent people.

vacuity22• 3 years ago

Oh wait, of course she wants safe, legal sex work as well.

Why is that a problem? As long as people aren't coerced/forced into it, where's the harm?

ctrlp8• 3 years ago

It would take a bit of time to explain why a society might not want to legalize, regulate, and tax vice. You might also want to do a deep dive into Libertarianism and consider whether it has ever made sense or could make sense for any society you might want to live in.

bradlys• 3 years ago

I often wonder who the audience is for subjects like this. One where someone essentially is what I’d consider a shit stirrer. I’m referencing the articles by Amia - not the summarizations here.

Part of me thinks it’s maybe interesting to bring up to people who have a genuine openness and are unaware of such subjects. But then it feels like to even read a collection of said articles, you must be a bit in the know about these subjects already if not a complete nerd about them.

I’ve seen this type of “I’m just asking questions” talk in many places and it does feel disingenuous almost exclusively. It’s quite rare to see a completely balanced take where they have no idea what the correct solution is. It looks like in this collection, Amia does give their own opinions even though they say at times they don’t have any idea what is best. It rubs that it’s disingenuous.

The problem is that I’d like to send such things along to people I know to get them more informed about various subjects but when there’s a slant as evident here - I never want to. So annoying that everyone has to shove their opinion into everything even when they act like they’re not. Just own it.

vacuity22• 3 years ago

I think people should assume that authors don't provide balanced takes and read critically, but that might be asking too much. I don't really see the "I'm just asking questions" aspect. Do you have any examples?

andai3• 3 years ago

(Tried posting this 5 hours ago, but the article was briefly "[dead]".)

The article doesn't actually seem to touch on "the right to sex" (it mentions it once, as a position held by some incels). I thought that would be an interesting discussion, and especially how it relates to the "right to reproduce" (and the perception by some that it is impossible in the present economy).

The two are connected, of course, by biological necessity. If no woman wants a man, then that man is unable to reproduce. I am told that in the semi-near future, it will be possible for such men to reproduce by means of artificial wombs. (And equally so for women, who do not wish to undergo pregnancy, yet desire children.)

vacuity22• 3 years ago

I wonder how that would affect family structures. Children seem to need at least some kind of family structure that provides them with physical and emotional care, so it's worrying if this heralds less stability and greater neglect.

andai3• 3 years ago

Yeah. Arguably, only people well-adjusted enough to find a mate should be allowed to reproduce (i.e. you get the "approval" of at least one other human being).

The Right to Sex: Feminism in the Twenty-First Century

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