Denuvo wants to convince you its DRM isn’t “evil”

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/07/denuvo-wants-to-convince-you-its-drm-isnt-evil/

by LinuxBender • 3 years ago

37 38 3 years ago

arstechnica.com

barbariangrunge2• 3 years ago

The discussion is always about performance. Why isn’t it about privacy or having control over one’s own computer?

internet2000• 3 years ago

Performance is more important for games.

arthur2e5• 3 years ago

People don't read EULAs, but they certainly notice when the "minimum specs" on the tin don't work. Such is life.

c-hendricks4• 3 years ago

How does Denuvo remove control from the user over their computer? Did it force them to buy the game, install it, and launch it?

Sorry to be so flippant and appear as a devils advocate for DRM, but as far as I'm aware Denuvo runs with the game. Unlike ie Punkbuster, which is constantly running with way too high permissions.

nrabulinski2• 3 years ago

This is the same argument as saying “well, Apple should make a walled garden and keep taking ownership away from people who buy hardware, and you should just not buy from them!”. No, ownership over a device should be a human right, and so should be ownership over software you purchased. If I want to enjoy a piece of tech or a game, I should be able to do so instead of being handicapped while Denuvo objectively makes the experience worse for legitimate users (while people who pirate enjoy BETTER experience)

ndiddy• 3 years ago

When you start a Denuvo game, it sends various information about your computer (CPUID, OS information, etc) to Denuvo's servers, and the servers in turn generate a license file. The game exe will contain at least a few hundred functions that are VM obfuscated and will use your license file in combination with your computer information to decrypt parts of the code and continue execution. If you change some aspect of your computer hardware, you update your OS, or if the license file expires, the game will download a new license file from Denuvo's servers on launch.

All of this means that when Denuvo's servers get shut down, any game that hasn't been cracked will no longer run.

ivraatiems• 3 years ago

Performance is a space where they can actually make good-faith arguments that their software isn't so bad. Privacy or personal control over one's machine are out the window already.

NBJack• 3 years ago

It's what the gaming community primarily cares about, TBH. I don't blame them.

tracker13• 3 years ago

I'm genuinely mixed... Playing games when so many will cheat isn't fun, and excessive drm and anti cheat suck too and even more considering I run linux, so usually limited via Proton. I know DRM is more than anti cheat, but they're entwined.

I think self host server options and modding helps overcome the cheaters with hands on admins and friend groups. I also get you need to pay the staff and am ok seeing good games make money.

I do wish DRM could have a built in expiration though... even 5-10 years to keep older games playable/portable.

mcpackieh• 3 years ago

Play games with friends instead of strangers, then cheaters aren't a problem. Cheating can be policed through normal social processes when you aren't using anonymous matchmaking. Game companies made this problem in the first place by taking away the ability of gamers to run their own private servers.

tracker13• 3 years ago

I did mention this...

metalcrow2• 3 years ago

I've been playing Battlebit recently, but i don't have 128 friends.

serf2• 3 years ago

I'm genuinely mixed... Playing games when so many will cheat isn't fun

simple question : have you encountered an anti-cheat mechanism that works to stop cheaters?

I haven't.

The damage that DRM causes is almost entirely one-sided towards the consumer, aside from the pocketbooks of executives that want to boast about their games licensed anti-cheat mechanisms.

Those that want to cheat may be thrown through another loop, but it doesn't meaningfully stop them -- these people are often technical and interested , anyway. A new challenge for credit on underground forums -- great!

metalcrow2• 3 years ago

simple question : have you encountered an anti-cheat mechanism that works to stop cheaters?
I haven't.

I have. Quite a number in fact, despite me wishing it didn't. Elden Ring used EAC to huge effect here.

Infinity315• 3 years ago

simple question : have you encountered an anti-cheat mechanism that works to stop cheaters?

Anti-cheat works to reduce the number and frequency of cheaters, not to eliminate cheating completely. It means the difference between meeting cheaters every single game vs meeting cheaters once every 20 games. One means your game is mostly playable and the other means the game is completely unplayable.

This is reasoning of yours is like: "Why use vaccines at all?" "Why use anti-virus programs at all?" "Why use seat belts at all?"

None of these completely eliminate infection, being hacked, and fatalities in motor accidents. But they vastly reduce the number of them occurring.

RulerOf2• 3 years ago

simple question : have you encountered an anti-cheat mechanism that works to stop cheaters?

I find them to be rare, but I consider the existence of both cheating and anti-cheat software to be a symptom of a bigger problem: shitty games and shitty game mechanics.

If cheats maximize enjoyment for the cheater playing your game, your game sucks and you should focus on retooling the game to deliver that experience without third party tools.

lakomen2• 3 years ago

DRM is not anti cheat, where do you get that from?

tracker13• 3 years ago

Anti cheat replies on the same mechanisms as drm.

fxtentacle• 3 years ago

In my opinion, the current state is entirely reasonable. Most new games have Denuvo DRM for the first 6 months and then it officially gets removed, no crack needed. So if you feel strongly about DRM, you can still legally enjoy the same game, only a bit later. And as a publisher/developer, promising those 6 months of DRM is enough to make it massively easier to get investors on board.

rlex• 3 years ago

Should be standard, not just promises. What if denuvo disappears from existence? Will i be able to start game 10 years later? I think i still have some games in my library that still have denuvo, despite being several years old.

lakomen2• 3 years ago

If a game that costs too much and is bad can't be cracked without a lot of effort (Empress) because it has denuvo, I will not buy it.

It doesn't matter if a game has denuvo, if the game is bad and overpriced I won't pay money for it.

In fact, because of piracy, I spent more on games than I would have without.

That means the people who are trying to make a quick buck and turn shit into gold will still not succeed.

When I don't have money I won't buy games regardless. When I do, I do buy games but I try the pirate version first if something interests me.

In most cases it turns out I was baited by whatever and the game is only interesting for that evening, or I can tell in the first few minutes that it's not for me.

I always have buyer's remorse. It's really rare that I don't regret a purchase.

With Stream or Epic only having a 2 hour refund window, it's simply not enough. Piracy is there for a good reason.

Denuvo wants to convince you its DRM isn’t “evil”

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