RPI sues after cleaner's error allegedly destroyed decades of research

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/rpi-sues-cleaner-s-gaff-allegedly-destroyed-18164979.php

by blindriver • 3 years ago

36 43 3 years ago

Did they keep all their data in RAM on a single server too?

intrasight2• 3 years ago

Can't help but think RPI shares some culpability here if they allowed anyone to throw that switch. Surely electrical codes allow for the protection of such breaker switches.

intrasight2• 3 years ago

Dating myself here, but reminds me of the episode of the '70s TV program "Salvage 1" about a scrap dealer (played by Andy Griffith) who builds a rocket from parts he finds. On their maiden voyage (I think) the cleaning guy unplugs the guidance computer so that he can plug in his vacuum cleaner.

lowbloodsugar• 3 years ago

RPI clearly had the information and obligation to understand the nature of their problem and to implement an effective solution. Turns out they were unable to do so. One might say that the scientists were not trained on how to implement effective operational procedures, believing instead that a piece of paper with a message on it would be effective. Their claim that a cleaning company should have been able to anticipate their failure and do a better job at operational assessment than RPI seems like a losing argument.

rcme4• 3 years ago

Apparently they had a sign that explained how to mute the alarm. I think that’s going to work against them. They were aware that the alarm could trigger erroneously and didn’t fix the issue.

tekla2• 3 years ago

Didn't read the article. The article clearly states the fridge was scheduled for repair, but due to COVID was delayed.

rcme4• 3 years ago

Why does that matter? They knew it was broken but didn’t explicitly notify the cleaning company to avoid the fridge. Like what is the argument exactly? “I knew this was broken and didn’t tell you about it. Now you owe me money because the broken thing interfered with your work.”

dingosity2• 3 years ago

It's research that's so valued they don't have a battery backup and don't page a grad student or two when the power goes off in the middle of the night. It's so important they don't explain the problem to people who have access to the lab saying "hey. look at this sign over here."

hinata082• 3 years ago

Just watch a few CSB videos (among others) on YT to understand how some companies are run, when it comes to functional safety and ergonomics.

This is unfortunately not taught everywhere apparently.

Long story short, some companies would have done exactly the same management for something that would cause Armageddon. In the 80s in Paris, a train crashed when some train driver thought he was helpful by responding to an alarm and fixing the brakes himself instead of calling maintenance, and actually turned off the brakes because a poorly design switch made it look like the circuit was open. Plot twist, he was found to be not guilty of anything because company procedure were not clear.

So a mere freezer probably went under the radar of management.

In this case, a power loss could have been accidental as well. What if a fuse went out, or some unrelated piece if equipment caused an upstream GFCI to trip ?

How can you trust a fridge and its power supply to protect 1M dollars for 20+ years, if 20 years worth of samples were destroyed? Power was just bound to be lost at some point in time, over a period of a few decades. (It even happens in datacenters)

And some UPS would cost up to 2000$ ? Up to 500 more for the warning system to send a text ?

IMO, functional safety should be a staple in university.

jstarfish2• 3 years ago

How can you trust a fridge and its power supply to protect 1M dollars for 20+ years, if 20 years worth of samples were destroyed? Power was just bound to be lost at some point in time, over a period of a few decades. (It even happens in datacenters)

This very point makes the entire thing so ridiculous I'm not convinced this isn't the setup to outright fraud. Like a failing storeowner who starts making customers with children traverse the artisanal glasscraft section to get to the toy section. "Oopsies! You owe me $1M."

I can't say this is about money (it's a university), but suspect maybe this project was doomed anyway and now its coordinator is staging sabotage to save face.

The only thing that gives me pause is the thought that it's a little weird the cleaner was messing with the circuit breakers at all. The explanation offered makes little sense.

tekla2• 3 years ago

Didn't read the article.

They already had an alarm that was defective that tracked the fridge temp and would alarm when it went off. What would a battery backup would have done if the fridge itself is defective?

rcme4• 3 years ago

Well in this case the fridge would have kept running after the power was cut at the breaker.

smcg2• 3 years ago

Worth reading to answer these questions. Alarm was not defective. Repairs were delayed and this happened while waiting for a repair. It wasn't expected that samples would be damaged due to a slightly dropped temperature for 1 week. Most major flaw here was a lack of functional safety/training to avoid this sort of situation.

ilyt2• 3 years ago

Then read the article because you wrote nonsense

justinclift5• 3 years ago

It's research that's so valued they don't have a battery backup ...

Battery backup isn't going to help when someone turns the sample storage fridge off. :(

lionkor• 3 years ago

They turned off a circuit breaker, that sounds like there is definitely room for backup battery there.

dingosity2• 3 years ago

That's actually exactly what battery backups do.

tdeck• 3 years ago

In case anyone wondered, it looks like you can buy a small ultra low temp freezer for about $10,000.

5423542342352• 3 years ago

RPI does have emergency generators and UPS for their campus. The sign was on the fridge so that someone wouldn't do something crazy, like pull it away from the wall and unplug it. Someone going to the circuit breaker and killing the power to the whole area is not something any reasonable person would do or expect others to do, the same as I wouldn't expect the cleaners to "turn off the lights" by smashing the bulbs with a broom handle. It isn't exactly reasonable to come in after the fact and say "of course someone might try to turn off the lights by smashing the light bulbs. Obviously, you should have had cages around the lights to prevent this. How negligent of you."

fatfingerd• 3 years ago

Over 100 years I would expect 2 failures to overlap multiple times especially if you are willing to let one slide.. I'd have to assume they were getting paged when it failed and they failed to set a new bound to resume paging for a worse failure. Anything else could have been their second failure that caused an unacceptable temperature change instead of a cleaner misreading a breaker panel that apparently only needed one failure per 25 years.

Not the most scientific cleaners meet not the sharpest planners.

itsoktocry• 3 years ago

All true, but also pretty bold of a cleaner to cut the power to silence an alarm in a laboratory...

tonymillion2• 3 years ago

So they keep millions of dollars worth of samples in a single freezer in a single location?

The loss of the samples was an inevitability and regardless of who pulled the plug - a cleaner, a power cut or a faulty compressor they are solely responsible for the loss.

Assuming a cleaner would read a note attached to a freezer, given they no doubt have to see lab notes all over the place - and probably have instructions not to move or read the notes - is completely delusional.

IMO the blame falls squarely at the feet of the researchers and RPI and at worst the cleaning company should agree to terminate the contract (thus losing the $1.4 million per year deal they had).

smcg2• 3 years ago

I mean, looking at a site now that sells cryogenic freezers, only one model goes colder than -86C, and this was going down to less than -110C. this is expensive and specialized equipment. I understand not having a second one but they needed more safety and redundancy on this one.

tonymillion2• 3 years ago

The article mentions Fahrenheit (-112f), which means it was -80C, so the first one you found would have been "good enough". A quick google finds a -80C freezer for $14000 [0] a fraction of the $1million they've "lost".

[0] [Fisherbrand™ Isotemp™ Ultra Low Temperature Freezer](https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/isotemp-ultra-low-te...)

JoeAltmaier• 3 years ago

Reminds me of the company that sequestered private keys. Some idiot VP went to the vault, took out the master list and email'd it to a friend who had forgot their key. Gutting the entire value of the company and ruining it forever.

People do the damndest things. Critical stuff needs a little extra care put in place or some fool will inevitably do the thing-that-must-not-be-done.

Sometimes I have no confidence that a mature civilization is even possible if it's composed of human beings.

ilyt2• 3 years ago

Sometimes I have no confidence that a mature civilization is even possible if it's composed of human beings.

Of course it is, just takes some lawyers and PR to change the meaning of "mature"

vinyl7• 3 years ago

Sometimes I have no confidence that a mature civilization is even possible if it's composed of human beings.

It boggles my mind that humans have survived for so long considering how suicidal and self destructive we are as a species

kjs3• 3 years ago

For every one of us monkeys who says "hey, y'all...watch this!" and does something insanely stupid, there are always at least a couple who take a step back, make sure we're out of the blast radius, and think "this guy is going to make a great warning to the others"...thus preserving the species for another day.

tangjurine2• 3 years ago

What company?

DoItToMe81• 3 years ago

If he was willing to risk all this, imagine just how fucking annoying that alarm must have been.

tangjurine2• 3 years ago

The guy said he was trying to be helpful after hearing the annoying alarm by turning the electricity on.

Either he's really dumb, or he just doesn't care about the consequences and then makes up some bs excuse after. My money is on the latter.

RPI sues after cleaner's error allegedly destroyed decades of research

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