Valve Sued by Immersion over Steam Deck and Index Rumble

https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/16/23726295/valve-immersion-rumble-lawsuit

by sohkamyung • 3 years ago

91 37 3 years ago

Just turn off the rumble, it's a gimmick. It gives zero feels to the overall experience, at least for me.

ErneX2• 3 years ago

I think the haptic feedback of the PS5 DualSense when it’s well implemented adds to the experience. Returnal is a good a example. Also the Astro game that comes bundled with the console.

criddell2• 3 years ago

No game has made we want to smash my controller more than Returnal. I played it for about a week before I finally gave up. I think it’s the only game since 1980 that I’ve ever quit out of frustration.

gaudat• 3 years ago

Guess what, both PS5 and Switch's haptics are from Immersion.

lofaszvanitt2• 3 years ago

Okay, but if Valve would've chosen to leave rumble out, it wouldn't matter at all. Maybe for journos, who tend to compare things like they are eggs...

Hamcha• 3 years ago

in most games, sure, but some games really benefit from rumble and some experiences might only work properly with rumble.

ex. 1: Global game jam game where one player has to only use rumble to achieve thier goal, the dev then went to make games for blind people, and rumble is still very much part of them. It definitely feels gimmicky but it kinda opened my eye to the fact that people perceive different parts of games in different ways, depending on their disabilities

ex 2: in Beat saber, rumble tells you when your controller hits something, it becomes such an important part of the experience that when my index controllers lost rumble I had to quit playing. Without being able to watch everywhere at all times, the haptic feedback becomes vital to knowing if you hit that note you were aiming for while focusing elsewhere.

goda90• 3 years ago

The haptic feedback on the trackpads is very helpful to the experience.

bodge5000• 3 years ago

I'd go so far as to say near essential, using them without would be a massive pain, especially when using the onscreen keyboard

tjpnz2• 3 years ago

I think I would struggle to play many racing games without it, especially when it's implemented well.

flerchin• 3 years ago

The trackpad rumble is magical. It feels like a clickable trackball, but it is neither clickable, nor a trackball.

rob742• 3 years ago

Yay, bring on the patent trolls! I wonder what's so different between vibration in a controller and vibration in a phone that prevents them from suing Apple, Samsung, Google et al.? Because if the patents are just about the idea of giving haptic feedback to players via the controller, I'm asking myself why all the billion-$ companies involved preferred to roll over and license the "technology" rather than actually going to court and trying to get the patents invalidated instead...

Ekaros2• 3 years ago

Specially when the prior art is old and even more modern examples are from 1997. Maybe they just fear the small chance that the sales will be stopped for a period.

xattt• 3 years ago

Can you imagine a game controller maker being sued in 1997 for some pinball control device made in 1967?

Svip• 3 years ago

Whilst this is purely speculation on my part, I have always assumed the reason they settle rather than go to court is because they don't actually want the patents invalidated. The patents serve as a barrier to entry into the market. Had Microsoft - for instance - gone to court, and had the patents invalidated, Valve would not have been sued now.

This discourages competition from smaller outlets, and thus allows the big players fewer competitors. Though, again, pure speculation on my part.

Ekaros2• 3 years ago

Also, could someone like Microsoft or Sony point this company to sue the aftermarket manufactures for controllers for their products. Thus selling more first party stuff.

SXX• 3 years ago

Big players don't have to be malicious in this particular case. There are other financial incentives for big players not to go to court. For once because patent troll might block sales of particular device / service during litigation. Also because in a big companies such decisions are taken by their own legal departments that might have skewed interests and KPIs.

tetrep• 3 years ago

I think it also promotes a culture of "bullshit patents are good, just pay up and move on." Which aligns very well with large companies' large bullshit patent portfolios.

troad• 3 years ago

Whilst this is purely speculation on my part, I have always assumed the reason they settle rather than go to court is because they don't actually want the patents invalidated. The patents serve as a barrier to entry into the market. Had Microsoft - for instance - gone to court, and had the patents invalidated, Valve would not have been sued now.

And importantly, they don't want their own patents invalidated. They don't want legal precedents that weaken their own IP rights.

gertrunde• 3 years ago

Yay, bring on the patent trolls! I wonder what's so different between vibration in a controller and vibration in a phone that prevents them from suing Apple, Samsung, Google et al.?

Nothing's different: https://ir.immersion.com/news-releases/news-release-details/...

rob742• 3 years ago

Ok, I stand corrected... so this is a "patent pool" similar to those covering video compression etc., just much more trivial? I really wonder how you can have "2,600 issued or pending patents" for touch feedback technology. Except if they're including patents on e.g. the idea of making a touch screen feel like a physical keyboard, so they can immediately sue the poor soul who actually manages to pull it off...

trollied• 3 years ago

Valve has fought controller-based patent litigation before: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/08/valve-catches-a-break-...

jeroenhd• 3 years ago

Once again the current patent system is shown to dampen innovation rather than accelerate it. The fact this type of patent extortion for commonplace features is even possible shows how much the system needs to be improved.

Unless these patents will be invalidated, this company will be able to sue any other company for 27 whole years for "thing vibrates when you touch it", "thing vibrates based on what's on the screen", "thing vibrates when you touch if (but with an algorithm somewhere)", "thing vibrates when something happens", "thing vibrates when you move your finger", or "thing vibrates when you push".

This is legal extortion.

Vt71fcAqt7• 3 years ago

To add, one of the "infringed" patents here:

1. A computer-readable medium having instructions, the instructions including instructions that cause a processor to:

detect a first pressure on a first input device;

provide a first tactile sensation to the first input device, the first tactile sensation based at least in part on the first pressure;

[...][0]

In general any patent that doesn't help the reader recreate the invention should not be valid. They should be more like instruction manuals "describing the said invention or discovery, clearly, truly and fully,"[1] rather than a list of vague ideas.

[0]https://patents.google.com/patent/US7336260B2

[1]https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Statutes_at_Lar...

PoignardAzur• 3 years ago

I really hope Valve goes the Cloudflare route and fights these guys all the way to court and further. Patent trolls are despicable.

something223• 3 years ago

Hopefully valve having more money than god helps with this. Surely there's prior art about this.

antiterra• 3 years ago

Sony fought them hard on the earlier patents and lost twice before giving in. That has to be at least a little bit daunting.

tjpnz2• 3 years ago

Sex toys next?

Valve Sued by Immersion over Steam Deck and Index Rumble

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