Climate change may be making turbulence worse

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1166993992/turbulence-climate-change

by neom • 3 years ago

21 16 3 years ago

npr.org

throwaway202303• 3 years ago

anecdote

professor with agenda

some more anecdotes

no real evidence that the problem is increasing or that it will get bad enough to have any effect on air travel

seems like a great npr story, i do hope they raise my carbon tax

sremani• 3 years ago

making up news is easier than reporting news. we are in that cycle. Once trust-fund babies took over media, it is just part of the activist-industrial culture. We will tell those plebs what's good for them.

starkd4• 3 years ago

They did reference satellite data. However, I do not know to what extent satellite data can show turbulence. The article implied a total cause, but I suspect its a bit more complex. Not sure how you would tell if its more common. I remember people complaining about turbulence for as long as I can remember. Maybe people's expectations about flight safety are just higher now, because planes offer a better experience.

secondcoming• 3 years ago

I normally quite enjoy turbulence, but I've never experienced it so bad that items fly around the cabin, only so bad that I've witnessed other passengers grip the seat in front of them for dear life.

jacquesm• 3 years ago

I've been in heavy turbulence and trust me you won't enjoy it.

giarc2• 3 years ago

Interesting thought on what would work to persuade even the most staunch anti-climate change person. Obviously increase floods, hurricanes, forest fires, heat waves etc won't work. Imagine if it was something like crazy bumpy plane rides that finally convinces the last hold outs?

saiya-jin• 3 years ago

Where rationality left only emotions rule, and populists know damn well how to use people's fears and other negative emotions to to milk them for either money or power... don't expect solving this would be so trivial, its more on the evolution of mankind as whole scale, or at least massively improving education with strong focus on less intelligent part of population

starkd4• 3 years ago

Corporate marketing departments have been pretty adept at promoting their products on the backs of this science. They are far from unintelligent. Populists, for all their deficiencies, are fairly adept at eventually detecting marketing ploys and gimmicks.

peyton2• 3 years ago

I think the reason people aren’t on board with climate change is that the solutions presented are not appealing.

starkd4• 3 years ago

Plus the solutions are narrow in scope. For instance, we are led to believe that it will be solved if only we all buy electric cars. It might help for certain areas, but it is far from a complete solution. It comes off as a corporate grift.

giarc2• 3 years ago

Do they need to be appealing? I think our focus should be on energy generation change (phase out coal, nat gas etc). I don't notice if the electricity running into my home comes from green sources (nuclear, wind, solar) or black (?) sources (coal, nat gas). I guess the 'appealing' part comes from the cost. At this point, it seems like green sources are cheaper, we should be building like crazy (I know that to an extend we are).

TheFreim• 3 years ago

Interesting thought on what would work to persuade even the most staunch anti-climate change person

I have some thoughts on this matter, let me know what you think. There are two types of reasons, one pertains to other views which interconnect in the political realm and the other is in framing.

First, the largest issue is that "climate change" is often. attached to various political causes. When someone presents something as "We need X to do Y" but they believe Y to be wrong/immoral/evil they rightly will become suspicious of what's being used to promote what they see as wrong. There are all sorts of political causes and buzzwords which get attached that send certain groups signals not to trust what's being claimed (Note [1]).

Second, the framing of the issue is often done poorly. Large impractical and unpopular efforts are put at the forefront, i.e. the recent stove controversies, instead of framing the issue around energy independence and personal safety/wellbeing. Regulations are framed in a way that primarily appeals to certain demographics, making the opposition less likely to trust root claims. There are various other examples that could be made.

These issues make it very hard for people trust root claims. When someone presents something which you deeply believe is wrong, on any number of political issues, and then in the next sentence says "oh yeah the world is coming to an end unless you vote for me" it makes complete sense, id even say it's rational, to be highly skeptical of the claims being made (though ideally someone wouldn't remain in a skeptical phase and instead would dig deeper).

---

1. For example, there is often an attachment of climate change with racial grievance politics which are widely contested for independent reasons. Phrases like "climate justice" and others often inherit a certain framing which not everyone accepts. Whether you think these things are good or not isn't the issue, it's the perception which then causes distrust.

starkd4• 3 years ago

This kind of framing also keeps us from imaginative solutions, because only one solution is implied to the exclusion of all others. Hence, the suspicion is that it is merely another political agenda. I think its probably why nuclear energy - which is a clear solution with the least disruption to our lives - is less prioritized. It also allows certain corporate interests to make even more profit off their preferred solution.

trilbyglens• 3 years ago

A few years ago I was flying to the us from Europe and we were in turbulence for more than 3 hours. That _sucked_. The plane was moving up and down more than 3 meters every few seconds. I'm sure half the passengers were vomiting during that flight. Thanks northern Canada.

rationalist• 3 years ago

https://www.weather.gov/source/zhu/ZHU_Training_Page/turbule...

This is a good resource on how turbulence forms and the different classifications of turbulence.

Climate change may be making turbulence worse

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