Hobson’s choice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice

by jackallis • 3 years ago

91 38 3 years ago

en.wikipedia.org

roflyear• 3 years ago

Poor man, when there was a very valid reason for doing what he did!

"Hobson soon discovered that his fastest horses were the most popular, and thus overworked. So as not to exhaust them, he established a strict rotation system, allowing customers to rent only the next horse in line.

This policy, "this one or none" ("take it or leave it"), has come to be known as "Hobson's choice". It is not an absence of choice, rather choosing one thing or nothing."

hinkley• 3 years ago

Discovers queuing theory, but is remembered for "my way or the highway"

kelseyfrog2• 3 years ago

As a parent, you can get about a six months to a year with Hobson's choice before your kids start to catch on. But in that time, it's glorious.

The positive side effect is that afterwards, they've gained the critical thinking skill of choice framing critique. ie: they are keen to reject ill-posed choices and offer their own options when the given choices are substandard - a skill , frankly, more people could use.

vecter• 3 years ago

This is interesting. Can you share some practical examples of Hobson's choices that you gave your children?

bentcorner• 3 years ago

"You can eat what we made for dinner or not have dinner at all"

It's important as a parent to be able to follow up on both options.

Once your kids get older you can adjust (because you can explain the why and reason with your kids).

jeffwass2• 3 years ago

I’ve found much leverage by giving a choice to my kids in an orthogonal dimension.

Eg : “I don’t want to eat broccoli with dinner!”

“Well, would you rather eat it on the pink plate or the blue plate?”

Maybe I’m missing something or likely I’m diverging from the actual Hobson’s choice paradigm, but the Take-It-Or-Leave-It example in the article is clearly not a choice (that’s the point presumably). But letting my kid choose the color plate to eat the broccoli is a real choice although inconsequential to the act of eating broccoli itself.

kaolabear• 3 years ago

My parents gave me the choice between two jackets when I did not want to wear one. I remember that I found it unfair to give me this choice, but I wasn't able to articulate that at this point. It might work for the parent, but it also has side effects, because the child knows it is being tricked.

hackeraccount3• 3 years ago

People romanticize being a kid. I hated it. Adults were constantly giving you the illusion of choice.

You want A or B?

I want B.

Are you sure you don't want A?

Yup. Definitely B.

Here's A. I'm happy you made the right decision.

And that's how it was. They'd let you pretend and then the worst part was they would force you to be complicit after the fact. And let's be honest I would have totally been a responsible dirt bike owner. Maybe.

kerrsclyde• 3 years ago

It's great but through experience I have found out it doesn't work with all children. The youngest of my four children won't answer the question if he doesn't like the options and never has. It worked for the older three.

cancerhacker• 3 years ago

TIL, Discworld trivia connection: In "Going Postal", the protagonist obtains his horse from "Hobson's Livery Stable". (gnu terry pratchett)

robertlagrant• 3 years ago

Just went and checked that PreviousCorp still serves X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett on its production sites. Hooray!

ggm• 3 years ago

The 1954 film by David Lean is fantastic. Beautifully shot, great cast. Charles Laughton, John Mills Brenda de Banzie.

mellosouls• 3 years ago

I came here to note that, an utterly charming film, with the terrific classical actor Laughton following it with his sole movie as director, the haunting, beautiful and unique Night of the Hunter which I'm sure must also have some fans here.

ftxbro2• 3 years ago

This reminds me of a throwaway example someone was using while they were envisioning a scenario of AI manipulating people, like the AI can manipulate us as easily as a parent asking a three year old if they want the asparagus or the brussel sprouts. I forget where I saw it and I failed at googling it but I thought it was funny.

nradov• 3 years ago

My children were never so easily manipulated. The people who make up those examples never had kids.

dopidopHN• 3 years ago

I don’t have kids but I worked with them quiet a bit. Their lack and experience and general credulity and trust toward adults allow to manipulate them more easily than adults in my book. But you still have to work for it of course

recursive• 3 years ago

I use it on my kids. Maybe you just have perceptive kids.

NeuroCoder• 3 years ago

Amen. There's always that first time where you're able to trick them but then they know and start to realize you sometimes trick them. For us that meant this obnoxious gap between being smart enough to avoid deception and smart enough to appreciate the higher level importance of something like nutrition. I don't know if my oldest ate anything green between the ages of 3 and 6.

squokko• 3 years ago

Or maybe... different children are different... or maybe... different parents are different

moffkalast• 3 years ago

ASI: Think about it. They're out in the middle of the digitalized world with some AI they barely know. They look around, what do they see? Nothing but IoT stuff I can control. "Oh, there’s nowhere for me to run, what am I gonna do, say no?"

AGI: Okay... that seems really dark though.

ASI: No, no, it’s not dark. You’re misunderstanding me, bro.

AGI: I think I am.

ASI: Yeah, you are. Cause if the human said no, then the answer obviously is no. The thing is that they're not gonna say no, they'd never say no... because of the implication.

AGI: Now, you said that word "implication" a couple of times. What implication?

ASI: The implication that things might go wrong for them if they refuse help me. That stupid Roko's basilisk thing they believe. Now, not that things are gonna go wrong for them, but they're thinking that they will.

mock-possum• 3 years ago

AGI: are you going to hurt these users??

scottrogers86• 3 years ago

Also a nice rum bar in SF.

cwmoore• 3 years ago

White or black?

fanf2• 3 years ago

If you come to Cambridge you can see Hobson’s Conduit, which supplied fresh water to the city, and still flows alongside some of the city centre roads to this day.

quirkot• 3 years ago

Hobson's choice: have one or have none

Sophie's choice: have one or have none

Lio• 3 years ago

A contemporary example from It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia:

“What do you want to do? Song or no song”?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xAAoi3ihOg

takinola• 3 years ago

There's also the false choice where you think you're making a choice but it's really being made for you. The classic example is a magician asking you to pick one of two cards. If you pick the one they want, they will proceed with the trick add planned. If you pick the other card, they make as if the choice was for which card to discard so they get to proceed with the card they wanted all along

Hobson’s choice

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