Effective Immediately: A central hub for people who've been recently laid off (2020)

https://github.com/Effective-Immediately/effective-immediately

by derwiki • 3 years ago

212 97 3 years ago

[2020]

dehrmann4• 3 years ago

There was a lot of support for people hit by pandemic layoffs 3 years ago. Some was from government programs, some from companies trying to help, and some from initiatives like this.

Despite the current tech recession being something of a covid bullwhip, I'm seeing none of that support outside the tech community. Unemployment claims are up 500% [1] YoY for high earners. At least in California, unemployment benefits cap-out at $450 per week, so this hits hard.

At the individual level, it's obviously painful. What isn't clear yet is the macro impact of all these high-wag jobs going away.

1: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-20/top-earne...

mgkimsal2• 3 years ago

25+ years ago, I collected unemployment in Michigan. I was earning around $38k, and was surprised to learn of a cap. I think the unemployment cap was $200/week (or similar). I was telling a family friend that I’d been let go, and needed to file for unemployment.

“Oh that great! You get like 80% of what you were making, but no commute, you can watch tv, it’s great!”

I was panicking because it was something like an effective 60% cut with that cap. I realized at that point how far apart our experiences and work actually were. I started to explain the cap, then realized I’d be tipping my hand as to how much I was earning.

Looking back, he might have just been trying to make light of the situation a bit. I don’t think so, but it’s possible.

29athrowaway9• 3 years ago

My suggestions:

- Cancel all non-essential subscriptions, services and expenses.

- Calculate how much time you can afford to be unemployed, and how to extend that time if necessary.

- If you employer provided you with medical benefits, make sure to get any important pending doctor visits before you may need to switch insurances.

- You can be professional and proud of your job, but your job is not your identity. There is more to you than what you do for a living.

- Keep a routine. Get up in the morning at a given time, take a shower, cook a palatable meal, go for a run, read a few book pages, don't stay up late. There are habit building apps you can get for your phone that are good for this.

- Your new job is to get a job. You should look at it in this way. You do have a purpose, you do have something to do.

- Do not ruminate! Do not revisit arguments that could have gone differently. Use what you can as a lesson and move on. Don't get stuck in the past.

- Do not drink. It won't make things better. If you want to deal with emotional pain, go volunteer at an animal shelter or do something meaningful.

- Be honest about it with the people around you. If you think your partner and friends will look at you unfavorably because you don't have a job, then they're not really on your side and you are better off without them.

- Be kind to yourself. Nobody is perfect.

jacooper4• 3 years ago

- You can be professional and proud of your job, but your job is not your identity. There is more to you than what you do for a living.

I see this frequently pointed out, as in not introducing yourself by your profession, etc.

But what are you then?

You introduce yourself as an uncle to somebody or a dad?

Yes there are things outside of working, but its a core part of who a person is.

29athrowaway9• 3 years ago

It's part of what you do, and it does influence how you see things, but your life does not being or end with a job.

Your job friends, however friendly, might not necessarily remain your friends after you leave the company.

You can care about your job and your craft, and doing good for your customers to do your part in building a better world for everyone... but there must be something else outside that or your life will be pretty empty, and might even affect your job in the long run.

whiplash451• 3 years ago

You can start by stating what you are good at.

InvaderFizz• 3 years ago

Most of my friends know I do DevOps/SRE which is relevant to a lot of conversations we may have. They don't usually know or care who I do it for.

brailsafe6• 3 years ago

Hi I'm ${first_name}.

I only ever ask what someone does if it's clearly relevant to the context in which I met them, such as their lunch break.

JumpCrisscross2• 3 years ago

But what are you then?

"What are you" is a fun question to ask, particularly when traveling. Most Americans answer with their race or job. Italians, in my experience, gave answers with their local heritage; in India I frequently got a religion.

Swizec2• 3 years ago

Leading workshops in USA and Europe has been pretty eyeopening.

Americans: “I’m so and so from $employer where I do software engineering in the foobles department”

Europeans: “I’m so and so from $city where I live with 3 kids and enjoy basket weaving. For work I build foobles”

You have to explicitly ask Europeans about their employers whereas Americans seem to get completely consumed by their company so much they lose all other identity.

jarsin• 3 years ago

After 2008 something that always sticks in my mind was nobody puts where they worked on their gravestone.

brailsafe6• 3 years ago

Be honest about it with the people around you. If you think your partner and friends will look at you unfavorably because you don't have a job, then they're not really on your side and you are better off without them.

I think that last one is pretty damaging the way you wrote it. I would slightly change this to say "Be honest about it with the people around you, if your friends or partner evidently look at you unfavourably, then consider whether they're on your side or if it would be worth trying to keep them around, a direct serious conversation can sometimes do wonders for your relationships, and socially isolating yourself can sometimes be useful but oftentimes costly. (or something to this effect, leaning on tangibly being unsupported by your personal relationships rather than vague notions of anticipated rejection)

Merely anticipating people might not look at you favourably is kind of a separate issue.

29athrowaway9• 3 years ago

Fair-weather friends are not true friends.

If unemployment can help you get rid of people that saved your contact as "Free food", that's a great thing.

JumpCrisscross2• 3 years ago

think your partner and friends will look at you unfavorably because you don't have a job

Friends, 100%. But I can see being uncomfortable sharing such information with a partner. Not because they'll think less of you. But because it could stress them out. (You should obviously still be honest.)

unqueued• 3 years ago

My biggest mistake after being laid off was to not be discerning enough about my next job. You need to be willing to say no to a crummy job offer, even as the bills pile up.

brailsafe6• 3 years ago

Could you elaborate on that? I would think maybe in the very short term if you have minimal expenses and some savings, you have a bit of time to be picky, but not if you've got major expenses, dependants, or just very few offers coming in.

Like don't go agreeing to an obviously terrible offer, but this isn't a seller's market anymore.

SoftTalker3• 3 years ago

Well maybe. You can consider taking a less-than-ideal job to give yourself a longer runway, while you keep looking for a good/great job.

As long as it's an "at will" job (as almost all are) you can quit in two weeks, two months, or six months if a better opportunity comes along.

jacquesm• 3 years ago

That's true but better something than nothing, you can accept the crummy job offer, and then accept an even better one a short while later.

29athrowaway9• 3 years ago

It's like blackjack: do you want to stay or double down?

Either way, you can win or lose.

But as with gambling, bankroll management is of essence. You don't want to lose more than you can.

eastbound2• 3 years ago

Do not ruminate! Do not revisit arguments that could have gone differently. Use what you can as a lesson and move on. Don't get stuck in the past.

Ruminating is such a negative driver in a lot of our lives that I feel we should do better than internet advice.

It’s probably useful to rehearse decisions in the background, except when it’s overwhelming, and it makes me fall back into Tiktok addiction because only Tiktok takes me away from rumination, and I think we’re a lot of people who do something addictive just as an upgrade from ruminating.

But yes, ruminating ruins months, maybe years in a life.

Go see a psychologist if that is the case.

29athrowaway9• 3 years ago

Just learn what rumination is, and when you realize you are doing it, just acknowledge that it is not useful. You can say "Hello there, rumination. I know it's you. Now it's time to say goodbye."

If you make thoughtful decisions based on information that's as complete as possible, you should be content with your decisions, whatever the outcome is, you did what you can with you had.

cm2012• 3 years ago

Entertainment subscriptions are usually a negligible part of people's budgets. Hard to spend more than $100 a month on it.

jhallenworld5• 3 years ago

Yeah, but what is a high expense when you have money is food! So time to switch to cheap meals, use the time to cook. Rice + Lentils, etc.

https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/depression-era-recipes/

Some low cost alcoholic beverages:

http://bumwine.com/ (just kidding, better not to drink)

addaon3• 3 years ago

Calculate how much time you can afford to be unemployed, and how to extend that time if necessary.

I’d be interested in thoughts from others for whom this time comes out to decades, but less than actuarial time remaining. What’s the thought process between doing another turn on the hamster wheel now, when skills are fresh, vs in a half-economic-cycle or so when the market’s hotter, vs trying to stretch and stay off the wheel for good?

dougmwne• 3 years ago

If your savings can be measured in decades, then you should look into some of the math and simulations behind the FIRE community.

While considering yourself financially independent may be more of an academic exercise, the most important thing you can gain is permission to chase your own fulfillment rather than numbers in a computer somewhere.

Our society rewards risk takers and when money is no longer a top concern, you can afford a whole lot more risk tolerance.

kasey_junk• 3 years ago

I’m always surprised when these lists don’t include “apply for unemployment benefits”. Which should usually be one of the first things you do when being laid off.

johtso• 3 years ago

At least in the UK, there are no benefits if you have savings.

peruvian2• 3 years ago

In NYC — I was laid off and while I found a new job after a month and a half, and had savings, I still applied for unemployment. I got $400 a week for around three weeks. Not bad. Covered bills and groceries.

iJohnDoe• 3 years ago

@29athrowaway Thanks. Great guide. Good common sense stuff that is easily forgotten.

People forget the basics in the beginning and only start doing the basics once they hit rock bottom.

29athrowaway9• 3 years ago

If you were a Sim in the game The Sims, how would you manage yourself?

Let's say your Sim is watching TV all evening and is sad, what would you do?

jhallenworld5• 3 years ago

Something should be said about living off credit cards. Don't borrow, or if you must, do it with care:

- Don't cash advance from your credit card. If you must, do it with one credit card, then balance transfer to another. Interest for cash advance is usually very high. But you need a balance transfer card, I doubt you will be offered one if unemployed.

As far as credit rating: the most important bills are loan payments (credit cards, car loans and mortgage). Forget about rent:

Maybe you need to break a lease- it's a good idea to talk to your landlord. You are better off telling them, than not paying. They might let you break it without dinging your credit. Really once they find out that you can't pay, they want you gone as fast as possible so that they can rent to someone else. If you miss payments, they are missing income, in theory a much worse situation for them.

jifoxym• 3 years ago

I don't get the point on rent, you suggest going homeless right away?

oceanplexian2• 3 years ago

While I didn’t personally experience this, my dad went through bankruptcy and fairly hard times after the ‘08 recession and I learned a lot.

Not all credit is made equally. Don’t mortgage your house to pay credit cards, you can default on them and keep your primary residence. Don’t pay off debt before you break into your 401k. 401k’s are off-limits to creditors. And if you can’t pay something CALL them sooner rather then later. Most creditors would rather let you miss a few payments than default. And lastly, prioritize keeping yourself healthy, fed, clothed, and housed if it comes down to it. Being honorable or maintaining a good credit score is 100% bullshit compared to your health and well being.

6510• 3 years ago

make a website

cgio2• 3 years ago

Most of the links for potential employers are not working (a couple do but e.g. ask for login just to filter). Is there anything better or more current?

kevinconroy• 3 years ago

This may also be helpful: "An Engineering Leader’s Job Search Algorithm"

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19fr_36WOzKlq_zyGP2RdxMEs...

krainboltgreene2• 3 years ago

There should be a healthy amount of material about unionizing at a future job.

dehrmann4• 3 years ago

Union organization is only viable in a strong labor market. You have no leverage in a weak one.

krainboltgreene2• 3 years ago

It's an exceptionally strong labor market for software developers. It's strong enough for everyone else to organize.

wardedVibe• 3 years ago

Anyone know about the utility of Covered California equivalents in other states? That market saved my spouse and I (we both have chronic diseases and can't afford to have bad insurance) post-grad school where we weren't entitled to COBRA (because grad students are neither students nor workers, apparently).

sgerenser• 3 years ago

Every US state has an either its own health insurance marketplace or you access the federal one. You get access to it as soon as you’re no longer otherwise covered. Not sure exactly what you mean by “utility” but generally the plans are fine (and are barred from considering preexisting conditions to raise premiums or deny coverage). The cost may be high unless you qualify for a subsidy (as post grads might unless they’re paid unusually well).

alexose• 3 years ago

Love the double meaning. That's one of those project titles that's so good that you pretty much have to follow through with the idea.

satvikpendem• 3 years ago

It reminds me of Key Values which is a job search site where you can list your key values you're looking for in a company, and it filters based on that. The name, of course, is punny for technical people.

EGreg• 3 years ago

Is there a site for recently laid-off tech workers, designers etc. to partner up on startup projects, welcome people, offer shares in them etc?

Because if not - I’d love to make one. Anyone here care go join me? With my platform I can put it together in a couple days.

I am a big fan of opting out of full time work for an employer, and towards building projects together. The movie industry does that a lot. And my company has experimented with these models for years… starting in 2016! (https://qbix.com/blog/2016/11/17/properly-valuing-contributi...)

popinman322• 3 years ago

Tangentially related: A flat tech co-op model could be good. Build tools to make starting tech companies much easier, then let members start companies with those tools for either some regular payment in either labor (eg. allocate headcount for the co-op) or cash.

The co-op owns office space, (maybe) helps fund companies, provides vetted staff to reduce interview overhead, etc..

anaganisk• 3 years ago

Like an incubator? In India Nasscom and few state government funded startup incubators do this.

jhallenworld5• 3 years ago

Here is one bit of advice: Unemployment used to be paid by paper check (and I read that this is still possible, but also there is debit card and direct deposit). My advice: if you get paid by check, cash or deposit it immediately after receiving each one, don't wait. The state used to gauge if you still need unemployment by how quickly you cashed that check. If you appear desperate, they keep paying. For example, if your partner is working, then maybe you are not so desperate and wait a while before you bother to deposit it, then wham, you are cut off.

I imagine it's the same with their debit card, they get to see everything. I have no idea with direct deposit.

Aloha• 3 years ago

As far as I know, this is not done anymore, because in most case you have to file a weekly benefits claim by phone or online.

jhallenworld5• 3 years ago

Yeah, you had to do that then also, but how do they know you really need the money? Long ago there was no on-line option, but there was an in-person option:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2RYhNhBdw

neilv• 3 years ago

An additional thing to add about unemployment benefits: today, they might be high-touch, high-bureaucracy, and not aligned with tech job searches.

I think maybe all the talk/reality of people disappearing from the workforce during Covid might've made some states much less trusting that people actually want to get back to work.

Personally, if I'm ever again laid off, and I can quickly have promising opportunities lined up, I'm not filing for unemployment insurance payouts, unless&until I really have to.

Also beware that unemployment insurance programs aren't the only potential urgently threatening layoffs-related demand on your time and nerves. (For example, health insurance company runaround hell throughout each week, because, you find out after months, they disagree with employer's Cobra enrollment confirmation letter, but seem not to want to simply say that. And needing a new HCOLA housing lease or mortgage while unemployed, so keep incurring/enduring all the reasons you wanted to move.)

While techbros know that normally one should be calmly focusing 100% on practicing for Leetcode hazings, memorizing STAR format answers to "tell me about a time when" for each of a particular company's Ferengi Rules of Acquisition, adding hot new keywords to the resume, networking, and sifting through recruiter mass-approach noise.

Effective Immediately: A central hub for people who've been recently laid off (2020)

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