Why You Shouldn't Use Twitter Bootstrap

http://vibhunorby.com/2012/01/31/why-you-shouldnt-use-twitter-bootstrap/

by olivercameron • 14 years ago

26 22 14 years ago

AndyNemmity2• 14 years ago

This blog post would look nicer if he used Twitter Bootstrap. The spacing is poor, and I'd much prefer it's style to this one.

Anyway, let's tackle the points

1. "If you can't design it, you shouldn't build it."

The argument is essentially, if you can't do every part of the task, you shouldn't start on it.

Where does that stop? If you can't build the operating system you shouldn't make a website? If you can't build your own HTML spec, or Javascript spec, or etc etc etc.

It's an arbitrary point in the sand.

2. "Your homepage will suck and you will have no brand"

Why all the rudeness? Of course you'll have a brand. You'll still be using your logo, your design decisions within the bootstrap template...

3. "You will have no new ideas"

Because I use twitter bootstrap, all my other ideas aren't new?

This doesn't even make sense. I'll stop now. This is rude blogspam that is nothing but irrational insults.

dkhenry• 14 years ago

I don't think the author understand bootstrap. If his first argument against using it is that any site needs to spend valuable time with a custom design then he is missing the point. Bootstrap allows you to quickly get something public that doesn't look like a stowaway from the 90's. This is especially true for those of us who aren't great graphics designers. I can get a nice UI on my project that would normally be un-styled HTML. Honestly I don't care if you don't remember the design of my prototype site I want you to remember the content of it. However I guarantee that you will remember the poor design of my site and forget my content if it looks too ugly.

djhworld• 14 years ago

I'm planning on using bootstrap for some personal projects, not because I'm lazy, but because I'm a backend developer by trade (and practise) so I don't have much experience in front end design.

At least bootstrap appears to give you a framework to build something legible and good looking rather than the hacky CSS that I usually put together and weep about

vnorby• 14 years ago

I understand this perspective, believe me I do (I'm the post author). I'm also a back-end developer with very little design know-how. However, my point is just to bring awareness to the idea that design should be part of the product creation process. There are just way too many Bootstrap sites appearing. In fact, many solutions to problems that startups are working on can be solved with better design, but I think Bootstrap encourages us to come up with solutions that fit in a particular design model.

tathagatadg2• 14 years ago

How many projects have you used bootstrap for? I just completed two very different projects using it and never felt bootstrap was "owning" our design decisions.

alphamale3000• 14 years ago

The Googlebot doesn't value design. You need content above the fold. Sorry but my startup needs organic growth, as I don't have millions to flush down the AdWords rabbit hole.

LogicX• 14 years ago

If I could downvote I would. Author clearly hasn't ever used twitter bootstrap in some of its most amazing use-cases: Hackathons & Startup Weekends. We used twitter bootstrap for http://hipay.me to be designed in less than 12 hours - Never would've had the time to get the code done if we spent all our time on design elements!

sunchild2• 14 years ago

The author must be a very negative person to take the time out of his/her day to slag on a useful CSS/JS library.

It's a community-maintained library that is designed for bootstrapping web apps – hence the name "Bootstrap".

How someone could take that, and turn it into this content-free, nonsensical, holier-than-thou tripe is beyond me.

d3x• 14 years ago

I disagree; you do not have to be a negative person to point these things out. IMHO the author was simply trying to help anyone developing a web app avoid what he sees as a bad tool

sunchild2• 14 years ago

Let's look at the four sub-headlines of the article:

>> 1. If you can't design it, you shouldn't build it.

My version of this (idiotic) axiom: Don't reinvent the wheel every time you need to pick up groceries.

>> 2. Your homepage will suck and you will have no brand.

Homepage? (What is this 1999?) Bootstrap is clearly intended for web apps. If you want to create an interesting "homepage", maybe you could try the ever-popular CopyPasta library from 37Signals...

>> You will have no new ideas.

Again, I counter this (also idiotic) axiom with another, less idiotic truism: You will stand on the shoulders of giants (or at least upon a giant pyramid of smart people). BTW, maybe someone should teach the OP how to override/alter stylesheets.

>> You will forget about information architecture.

Actually, you will leverage proven IA, and get the benefit of lots of people's opinions about what works and what doesn't. Like it or not, users' expectations drive most of what you call "UX". Bootstrap is a better-than-average collection of web app conventions. The last thing the world needs is another "innovative" navigation metaphor.

By the way, you could take every one of the OP's ridiculous arguments and apply them to, say, HTML. Should we be using Flash so that we aren't painted into the corner of HTML tags? It's such a stupid position, that it hurts my brain. I am promising myself not to spend another second on this thread...

subpixel• 14 years ago

I disagree. I think tools like Bootstrap move the state of the web forward. My only gripe is that there aren't more projects like Bootstrap to choose from. (I suspect that will change with time, as developers/designers see how much demand there is for these tool sets.)

Personally, I'd love to see an alternative to Bootstrap built on top of Compass and incorporating the design patterns of Kickstarter ;)

Additionally, designing with (and against) a set of patterns like Bootstrap gives you valuable constraints. I prefer that to sitting down to a blank screen, and apparently loads of other people do too, to judge by Bootstrap's massive success.

madrox• 14 years ago

I believe this tweet by the author sums up his true feelings on the matter: https://twitter.com/#!/vibhu/status/164282933153239040

"Seeing Twitter Bootstrap is starting to annoy me, it is not that different from geocities templates and such, except made for programmers..."

PetrolMan2• 14 years ago

Upfront: I'm using Bootstrap currently for the admin interface of a project.

I think the author of the post is getting bashed a bit unfairly right now. In the comments, the author links to a blog built on top of a bootstrap and to be honest... it looks terrible. I can almost deal with bad design better than something that looks prefab.

I can completely understand wanting to have some kind of baseline start point for building a site. If you are in a hurry, Bootstrap is great but if you have the time, don't use an unmodified version of Bootstrap. Dare I say, it might be better to start with something like HTML5Boilerplate that leaves the design far more open (again, if you have the time).

Edit: More...

I guess more than anything I think Bootstrap has a time and a place. If you are doing a public facing site I don't think using a base Bootstrap site is really appealing.

One of the author's arguments is that you should understand how it works and I agree completely. You can certainly modify the Bootstrap framework but you've got to understand the moving pieces just like in any framework. Bootstrap is fairly modular but you've got understand how everything is tied together in order to take it apart.

I understand not being able to afford the time or cost of a custom design but I see Bootstrap like scaffolding, as something to use for a quick fix but never in the long term (at least without modifications).

AndyNemmity2• 14 years ago

The author is being bashed for his tone, and his points.

The actual argument, that prefab styling can hurt you is a valid one. It's a reasonable argument that requires logical points.

The author didn't do that, he insulted it broadly without real content.

PetrolMan2• 14 years ago

That's fair but I have an almost visceral reaction myself to seeing the black menu and white body with zero modification on public facing sites.

The base WordPress theme bothers me less than seeing something like this: http://daveriver.scripting.com/

Quick Edit: Looking through the sites on http://builtwithbootstrap.com is a mixed bag. There are sites that quite honestly look atrocious and others that look quite nice. I guess my baseline opinion is that Bootstrap in the wrong hands is just as bad as a blank canvas in the wrong hands from an aesthetic standpoint. That says nothing about ease of maintenance or anything else...

bradleyland• 14 years ago

Whoa! Talk about overreaching.

1) If you can't design it... {sneer}

"If you're using Bootstrap, you clearly don't care enough about your idea to spend time on the best user experience."

Or! Mabye you'll benefit from having more time to spend on your idea, rather than the basic framework of the web page you're composing.

2) Your homepage will suck and you will have no brand

"Homepages for Bootstrap sites are forced to be completely unimaginative."

I view Bootstrap like the binding of a book. A book with interesting binding is cool, but ultimately, it's the content of the book that makes or breaks it. There's nothing about Bootstrap that would cause your brand to be uninteresting. Bootstrap is easily extensible. It's a great starting point.

3) You will have no new ideas

This is almost a fair point. The incentive to create a new modality is diminished when existing tools are at hand, but this assumes that new ideas must be within the realm of web page design. That's like saying that no new paintings can be created with oils. That's just silly.

Isofarro• 14 years ago

There's a pervading sense of "to succeed you have to graft hard and long" in this piece.

In contrast, I'm reminded of Seth Godin's note about Richard Branson: Loads of people can do almost everything he does everyday, except for those five minutes where he is exceptional.

So you use a default template for throwing up a web site. That's good, that means spending more quality time on the idea -- where it should be spent. A good enough design is good enough.

sparkygoblue• 14 years ago

The post has a very condescending tone IMO, but there is a grain of truth to some of it though. I would say that you should incorporate bootstrap into your design, rather than let bootstrap be your design.

Disclaimer: I'm incorporating bootstrap into the design of my personal project.

sachleen• 14 years ago

http://builtwithbootstrap.com/ has tons of examples of unique sites that you wouldn't think "Oh this obviously uses Bootstrap" just by looking at it.

tathagatadg2• 14 years ago

Thanks for posting this one ...

gazrogers• 14 years ago

Out of the 7 sites on the first page, only 2 have made any attempt to fight the DIVitis that's inherent in Bootstrap. As I've said before, this is promoting poorly structured non-semantic HTML.

alex3t• 14 years ago

Come on, what wrong with you guys? Author even removed his post. Who interested can find it in google cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sourceid=chrome... Are you all like these amature websites which looks like clones? Personally I will go away from site based on unchanged Bootstrap CSS. Bootstrap as product is good but people using it wrong, the big problem 95% not change default Bootstrap theme.

Why You Shouldn't Use Twitter Bootstrap

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