The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012)

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

by chha • 3 years ago

127 147 3 years ago

I will never forget the feeling of reading this for the first time on my iPad some years ago. It kind of helped me get out of a rut, his grit is inspiring.

LarryMullins2• 3 years ago

Crazy that you can call a place Death Valley and still have people not take it seriously.

basementcat• 3 years ago

Death Valley can be quite beautiful in the spring, especially after a rainy winter.

https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/wildflower-seasons.htm

msrenee5• 3 years ago

They disappeared at the end of July.

dsfyu404ed2• 3 years ago

The threshold for warning people of danger in modern society is so low that people become desensitized.

panzagl• 3 years ago

I mean, if you go to Death Valley from the California side you've already been told you have, like, a million cancer exposures.

prawn7• 3 years ago

At Valley of Fire, 30-60 minutes from Las Vegas, there's a hike with a permanent sign at the beginning no matter the season/weather saying:

"HEAT WARNING. Hiking is not recommended."

This is despite the park recommending the hike on their map/brochure and at the visitor centre...

Obviously it gets hot there and being close to Vegas means people show up in jeans and with poor wayfinding skills. But I do wonder if the sign dissuades no one but desensitises others. Bit of a balancing act trying to adequately warn people who pay little attention, but keep it as the wild experience people want to have.

euroderf• 3 years ago

I read an interview with a US park ranger. They said people walk right up to the edge of canyons to get a gander. Like they're at home watching TV. Makes the rangers cringe.

sizzzzlerz• 3 years ago

people are idiots. every year people die in the park because they know better than the rangers and go out when it’s 130 without water or a hat

LorenPechtel9• 3 years ago

By summer the name is quite appropriate. In the winter it can be a nice, albeit stark, place to visit.

cratermoon• 3 years ago

There's an entire series of books titled "Death in ..." for US national parks, each one detailing incidents where people (not always tourists) ended up dead because they didn't take the risks seriously. https://longreads.com/2022/11/15/death-in-national-parks/

gwbas1c• 3 years ago

I read this whole thing a few years ago. It's fascinating.

pvg• 3 years ago

some previous threads:

2020, 75 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417

2019, 38 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057

2016, 61 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567

dang• 3 years ago

Thanks! Macroexpanded:

The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 - June 2020 (75 comments)

Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 - Feb 2019 (38 comments)

The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567 - July 2016 (61 comments)

The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723065 - June 2015 (1 comment)

user3939382• 3 years ago

I grew up (what I since learned people distinguish as "primitive") camping, hiking, in the ocean, etc. Not fear, but respect, for the power of nature was ingrained from the time of my earliest memories.

It wasn't until I was an adult I realized I was assuming this was universal and sadly it's definitely not.

I hear stories like this more often than I'd like and all I can do is shake my head. It's just sad and tragic and unnecessary.

neuronic• 3 years ago

Another poster already commented on this, but as a German I think it is important to provide some perspective:

There is next to no way to be outside of civilization and basic infrastructure for more than 30min of walking. Ok, maybe it is hyperbole and it is really 1-2 hours of walking in any direction but you're honestly going to have a tough time to not run into people and infrastructure anywhere in the country.

Western Europe is really dense when it comes to distance between urban areas in a way that has to feel foreign/weird for Americans. The distance between everything feels really different in the US versus Germany which either side will never fully understand or grasp until they're exposed to it in real life.

I appreciated it truly for the first time when I nearly ran out of gas on Route 66 back when I was a tourist before moving to the US. The needle was at 0, I had sweaty palms like never before. In contrast, a 2 hour drive anywhere in Germany feels really long and annoying, you will certainly pass multiple major urban areas.

A 7h commute in the US vs. a 8.5h commute in Germany: https://imgur.com/a/OSuzrF8

jtwaleson• 3 years ago

I read this here in 2019 I think, and visited Death Valley last October. When we were preparing the drive from Vegas to Mammoth lake, Google Maps would show different routes every day. It turned out the 190 was closed and they were busy working on it, updating the status regularly. After driving for a couple of hours we hit a roadblock and without any cell phone reception we felt really helpless. We gambled a bit and took a narrow winding road towards Telescope Peak (I believe). Then I started thinking about the Germans because the road we were on was not even on my cached Google Maps. I just saw it isn't on the live one either... Luckily we made it just fine and took a 3 hour southern detour past Ridgecrest. We still made it to Willy's Hot Springs near Mammoth lake before nightfall. What a fantastic trip!

omnibrain2• 3 years ago

We drove from Death Valley to Ridgecrest. The 40 miles from the 190/178 junction to Trona where the loneliest drive ever. Just a strip of asphalt in the dark, with nearly no street markings and shrubbery on both sides.

brazzy• 3 years ago

Since the first time I read this, I've wondered what they could have done to survive once the car got stuck. The only thing I came up with is to set fire to the car and hope the smoke would get someone to come look.

metacritic12• 3 years ago

I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car not have bought them enough time?

I don't know if the advantage was enough, but basically the conclusion was that they found the car first. And this type of story keeps on happening (like the car in Washington state a few years ago where the only person who died wandered away from their car), to the extent there's a real lesson to stay still.

evan_3• 3 years ago

The car wasn't found for three months, so probably not.

ipsi• 3 years ago

I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car not have bought them enough time?

Considering they went missing in June/July, and the car wasn't found until October, I think that's unlikely.

As a general rule, absolutely, but in this case it wouldn't have been enough on its own.

linksnapzz• 3 years ago

I think that's actually the recommended course of action, if you're stuck somewhere remote, especially in the snow. Light the spare tire on fire-tire smoke is very dark & thick, and can been seen for miles in the daytime.

tstrimple• 3 years ago

Yes. Use the spare tire, not the car. The car may be your only source of shade or shelter overnight.

whartung2• 3 years ago

I guess I need to search the YouTubes for "Survival techniques to light your car tire on fire." I honestly don't think I have anything in my car, this second, that could do that. How much heat does a tire need to light up? Is one of those mini-spares enough tire to make a good signal?

Its easy (well easier) with motorcycles, as you can readily get fuel out of the tank, assuming you have some fire source. But for a car? Not sure.

Mind, for this specific case, you have to appreciate that these folks were rather far from the beaten path. They were certainly far away from the local ranger stations and what not. Ideally someone may have seen it and reported it, but I wouldn't necessarily guarantee it. They were in a pretty large valley where this happened.

And, as an anecdote, my friends and I were stuck near there for 3 days one year. But it was in the mud, in the nearby dry ("dry") lake, and we were near a road. Never in any danger. But it was a fun extraction.

dddddaviddddd• 3 years ago

In 1996, I'm not sure what their options would have been, but today a Personal Locator Beacon or some other satellite communication system is good to have if you're in a remote place with no cell reception.

LorenPechtel9• 3 years ago

Yup--I was out in Death Valley last week. There's no way I'm heading off into nowhere without at a minimum a PLB in my pack.

WalterBright3• 3 years ago

The other thing to do is form SOS with rocks or stamp it in the snow or whatever, so people can see it from the air.

LorenPechtel9• 3 years ago

That's less visible than the car itself--and it took 3 months to find the car. I would think even smoke would be unlikely to be seen.

_vbnz2• 3 years ago

The cabin they passed on the way there wasn't that far compared to how far they got in the end, the best option would likely have been to take what they had from the car and stay there. And try to set a tyre alight as a signal for help.

That said, since it seems there wasn't much investigation until the car sighting in October, it's unlikely even that would have been enough.

pengaru3• 3 years ago

Been awhile since I read the story, but for starters you don't drive your rental minivan into the unpaved desert wilderness, which IIRC is what they did.

If you're simply stuck in an otherwise functioning vehicle, in something easily digged like sand... just get unstuck and go back from where you came. You can use the carpets/floor mats from within the vehicle if needed to get yourself out of sand in a pinch. It's just a matter of getting dirty and manual labor. I get stuck in desert sand pretty regularly, and only abandon the vehicle that got me into the isolated mess as a last resort, i.e. if it's irreparably broken or totally out of fuel.

An automobile can very easily deliver its occupants to fatal-as-pedestrian situations. As a former mechanic and gearhead, I'd strongly recommend becoming mechanically inclined and able to improvise repairs on your vehicle if you intend to do such things. And select the vehicle such as to maximize success on that front.

timerol• 3 years ago

Note that both of their rear tires were flat, which complicates things

cameldrv4• 3 years ago

Supposedly the van had 3 flat tires. That said, it also had an unused spare tire. It certainly would have been worth trying to get two good tires on the front and try to keep moving.

The more fundamental problem I suspect is that they may not have been thinking clearly given all of the empty alcohol bottles that were found. In the van, there was an empty bottle of beer and an an empty bottle of Bourbon. There was another beer bottle 2 miles from the car. Near their remains were found, there was an empty 2 liter bottle of wine and another empty bottle of beer.

cduzz• 3 years ago

Long long ago I'd drive around an old toyota tercel on desert roads and fire trails and such. I had a couple jacks, a shovel, and a couple big pieces of plywood in the back, and never got myself stuck in any meaningful way that couldn't be unstuck with a bit of effort, but I'd always stop as soon as there was any hint of problem and address it with the tools I brought with me.

I recently got a BMW 128i quite stuck in some sand at a sandy beach parking lot. I didn't have any reasonable tools and my tool-less efforts to get unstuck got me even more stuck.

Were I stuck in the desert with the BMW, limited water, no shade an no tools, it probably would have been a pretty serious problem. Things can go from manageable to unmanageable quite quickly sometimes.

cameldrv4• 3 years ago

In hindsight, their best bet might have been to walk back to the Geologist's Cabin and wait for someone to come along. Supposedly it's usually stocked with some food and water, and there's a spring right next to it.

It would have been about a 4 mile walk with an elevation gain of about 1000 feet. Admittedly not easy with little kids, but they ultimately did make it 8 miles in the other direction.

rex_gallorum2• 3 years ago

I read this story and mapped it out a few years ago, and they could (probably) have walked out the way they came. They passed a low scrubby area with a spring on the way in. I imagine most people would have simply backtracked on foot and (probably) survived.

I can only guess they had absolutely no idea where they actually were - but perhaps thought they knew where they were. That is the only explanation for continuing forwards on foot rather than turning back. If you're looking at the wrong place on a map, especially an inadequate map, it's easy to think you're going the right way when they are 'dead' wrong.

bombcar5• 3 years ago

Once the car got stuck they were in a bad spot - nobody knew they were out there so nobody was looking for them. It's remotely possible that hiking back out the way they came in would have done something, but the most likely thing would have been to start as dirty a smoke fire as they could during the day - and hope that a passing plane reported it.

rcurry2• 3 years ago

I’d have to agree here - with no comms and no water their best bet would have been to torch the van and hope someone sees the smoke.

thaumaturgy4• 3 years ago

Yeah, this is the correct answer. They simply didn't have the skills, ability, resources, or technology to survive in those circumstances once the car was crippled. They needed a big dose of good luck, and none came.

I think when people ask this question, what they actually mean is, "what would be a smart thing to do if I were in this situation?" In the interests of answering that question with the best advice currently available:

- Tell someone where you're going, how you're planning to get there, and when you should be back. It should be someone whose judgement you trust. I know, this is a chore, it's more fun to just take off on a whim for a weekend. But really, this is the number one thing that can get you found.

- Today we have really cool Garmin InReach devices that work (nearly) everywhere in (nearly) all conditions. They aren't terribly expensive. You can push a button for an SOS and a nearby agency may receive your coordinates. I'm using some qualifiers here because heavy cloud cover or snow can interfere with the devices, they can run out of battery, there can be miscommunications for your coordinates (I've personally seen this happen), and the team dispatched to your location may not be terribly motivated for any number of reasons. InReach devices are not well-loved by SAR teams because of their tendency to get activated accidentally or because a hiker "got too tired to keep going" (neither of which is a good enough reason not to respond to any new InReach alert as a potentially life-threatening emergency).

- Learn you some wilderness first aid if you can, it's probably the single best tool in your box for getting you out of bad situations. You'll get better at recognizing some common ailments and potentials for injury and you'll have a better sense of what to carry. I did not like the REI/NOLS WFA class, but it's better than nothing and is available in many popular outdoor areas.

- Recognize when you're in the shit, stop, and reassess as calmly as possible. This has got to be the most frequently recurring pattern I see in accident reports and debriefings. So many people, even ones that should know better (maybe especially ones that should know better) get tunnel vision as things start to get progressively worse. Different sports have different phrases for it, in mountaineering it's called summit fever. The road is muddy, the sky is gray, and your car is starting to bog down? STOP. Take a few beats. Eat a candy bar. Get out, stretch your legs if appropriate. Whatever, the point is to do something different for a minute so you have time to reflect on your situation. Reassess: have things been getting worse for the last few minutes? What happens if they continue to worsen? Why do you think they'll get better if you keep going forward? Then, make a decision.

- When lost, the current advice from NASAR and most organizations is to stop moving and stay put, but this can be really situational. Some situations may call for continuing to move towards something that looks like civilization, but there are also lots of areas where trying to do this ends up getting you into serious trouble. Once you deviate very far from your intended plan, the chances of finding you fall off a cliff (heh... little black humor there). Generally, your best chances of being found are on a trail, in a clearing.

mvexel2• 3 years ago

I read this after seeing a previous link to it on HN. One of the most haunting tales of folks getting lost in remote places[1]. I live in the West and love to explore remote places. But being from Western Europe originally, it took me a while to fully appreciate what "remote" means. You're dozens of miles away from water, cell service, human settlement. You're on your own. Be prepared. Bring an InReach and know how to use it. (Or, these days, an iPhone, if you can accept the limitations.)

[1] Another haunting one is the Chretiens in 2011 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/seven-...

heipei• 3 years ago

As a German myself I think I can confidently say that most of my country-men don't have the slightest feeling for what "remote" actually means until they have actually been to some of these places outside of Europe. "Remote" to a German might mean that it takes more than 30 minutes to the next highway. "Remote" means that cell reception drops to 3G, or that there's only one gas station in a 20km radius. Lots of folks I knew always talked about going to the outback in Australia as their first major trip abroad, because "it's so remote". It's hard to convince them that there's "remote enough" and "way too remote". I know plenty of places, specifically in Canada and the US, where driving for ~ 60 minutes from a major city will get you somewhere remote enough that you won't spot another soul. This is hard to grasp for us Germans since there's basically no place in the whole country where you're truly by yourself. My two cents.

rob74• 3 years ago

For me (fellow German) the first eye-opener was after arriving in LA and driving East along the I-10: first you drive for ~70 miles through the LA sprawl, then that peters out, then you reach Palm Springs, and then, after you have left that behind too, nothing (except for desert). The contrast between an agglomeration with 12.5 million people and the vast empty space right next to it is really fascinating...

strken• 3 years ago

When I was 11 years old my (Australian) family took a trip to remote Western Australia. Because remote tourism was popular in Germany at the time, we heard a different variation of "German tourist does naive thing" in most the towns we visited. Occasionally it was American tourists instead. I think this was more reflective of the number of people from each country that came to the bush than any national trait, but the stories themselves were educational.

Highlights included going down the Tanami Track in a rental van during the wet season, taking nothing but a case of beer onto the 2000km 4wd-only Canning Stock Route[0] and getting bogged then rescued by a passing convoy, and walking down a seriously remote track for six hours with nothing but a day pack and a change of clothes then asking where "the next kiosk" was.

We were from a more built up area of Australia, so we had a good idea of what it was like in the really remote parts and prepared: two spare tires, spare bits and pieces like timing belts and radiator hoses, HF radio and an epirb, redundant water containers, checked in with the local police station to let them know our expected arrival dates, all the good stuff. It was still very strange being in a part of the world where people would stop if they saw you pulled over but not waving or signalling to them, because you might be in trouble and they knew there'd only be one or two cars a day. We were from an area of Australia where if you had a compass and followed any direction for a day or two on foot you'd eventually come to a road, but out there you could drive for a day and not see anything.

[0] The longest stock route in the world, and probably one of the worst roads in Australia, insofar as you can call it a road.

saul_goodman• 3 years ago

Hehe. One time I was in a ride share from Berlin to Essen.

"Where are you from" I respond with something mid-western. "How far from New York or LA is that?" "I can drive a day in any direction and still be in the middle of nowhere".

It was cute to see the confused looks on everyones faces. I get it though, you drive a couple hours in any direction in Europe and you are likely to be in another country or a body of water.

monkeycantype• 3 years ago

About a year after the Berlin Wall came down I spent months riding a bicycle around Germany, an Australian - I have never quite got over the experience of the condensed scale of Germany, that I could find a clump of forest to wild camp in (perhaps not legally) and when i woke, hop on my bike and in minutes buy breakfast. I could choose any road, and always found some where for lunch, and wasn’t once run off the road by a semi trailer

8f2ab37a-ed6c• 3 years ago

I don't remember appreciating how barren and distant a place can be until I drove from Vegas to Death Valley, seeing absolutely nothing but grey soil and dust around me for hours, no hints of civilization outside of a dingy gas station once in a blue moon.

Whenever people say "we're running out of room on this Earth" I encourage them to pick any of the less populated states in the US and just drive down a highway away from a city.

I'm sure you can have an even more surreal experience of the sort in any former USSR state or China, given their size.

blamazon• 3 years ago

I'm sure you can have an even more surreal experience of the sort in any former USSR state or China, given their size.

Mongolia is great for this, travelers can basically camp wherever they want and the nomadic locals are so friendly. They often invite travelers to stay in their yurts, be fed, and experience what their lives are like. It's so incredibly welcome after days of isolated tent camping, an experience that transcends language barriers.

mlyle• 3 years ago

Whenever people say "we're running out of room on this Earth" I encourage them to pick any of the less populated states in the US and just drive down a highway away from a city.

I don't think many people think we're running out of physical space to house humans... but rather whether we're running out of productive land with ample resources.

LorenPechtel9• 3 years ago

Areas like Death Valley are empty because of a lack of water.

I sometimes hike out there and often don't see another person all day. Rarely do I see a drop of water, though, even though I'm only there in the "wetter" time.

prawn7• 3 years ago

Also Australia. In some areas, the properties (cattle stations) are measured in millions of acres. Biggest ranch in the US is 825k acres, whereas there are dozens in Australia in the 1-6 million acre range. Driving through Australia, you are generally driving through the middle of some of them.

shafyy• 3 years ago

Whenever people say "we're running out of room on this Earth" I encourage them to pick any of the less populated states in the US and just drive down a highway away from a city

I don't think people literally mean there isn't enough land for more humans to stand on. It's about the resources required by Homo Sapiens.

marssaxman2• 3 years ago

Bring an InReach and know how to use it.

Or... don't? There's something sublime about being outside, away from civilization, truly on your own. It's part of what draws me to wild places.

theonething• 3 years ago

I think bringing a personal locator beacon is a nice compromise.

dieselgate• 3 years ago

Indeed, both sides are valid. Experienced individual/s in the backcountry is different than inexperienced and traveling with dependents. It makes me curious if satellite/gps features on modern cell phones or vehicles would aid in a situation like this

googlryas• 3 years ago

You're always free to smash the beacon as you're dying of thirst or exposure after getting stuck.

rwmj• 3 years ago

Can anyone identify the cabin, Anvil Canyon and the other places on Google Maps? Best I can come up with is this route from the cabin to the canyon, but Google says it is 19 miles (versus 4 miles in the article):

https://goo.gl/maps/2hBb7Cb2T9oa5ed49

erentz• 3 years ago

Here's a map with many of the locations and routes:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FdGZI6DDRPe3Y9-dtpLG...

RamblingCTO3• 3 years ago

If you check one of the previous times it was posted, you get this list of maps and additional resources here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23596451

jonah• 3 years ago

I read this series and some of Mahood's other writings just as I was getting into Search and Rescue myself and it was quite inspiring.

I've been on a few extended searches and there's a lot of thought and research that goes into getting into people's heads to try to figure out where they went.

_vbnz2• 3 years ago

It's horrible that it seems the parents died before the children too. What an awful way to die, but totally understandable that in the moment they were more worried about retrieving the rental car and making it to LA on time than finding shelter for the long haul.

LorenPechtel9• 3 years ago

There's no "long haul" out there. I've never been in that part of the park, but from looking at the map I would say the only likely survival there would be to hunker down and push the button (the backcountry equivalent to calling 911--not an option back then.)

If that were not an option I would wait for nightfall, keep all lights and navigation, space blankets, sun umbrella and the jerry can of water, abandon everything else and try to hoof it. I would consider success unlikely. Given the supplies they had I would consider survival impossible.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS• 3 years ago

And always go back the way you came, rather than hoping help is just around the next bend or hill.

bombcar5• 3 years ago

The search for Bill Ewasko is the one that really weirds me out: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/search...

JoshGG2• 3 years ago

Note that there's a more recent chapter to this one (spoilers in the link!)

https://www.crossville-chronicle.com/news/glade_sun/enjoying...

bombcar5• 3 years ago

Thank you for this! I've been hopeposting the link every time either of the stories come up hoping for a follow up.

prawn7• 3 years ago

Has there been a mention of where the remains were found and if it matches with Mahood's guess?

Edit: Found some info here - https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/spn0uw/bill_ewa...

And more here, including comments from someone who found the body: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/sox6v4...

RamblingCTO3• 3 years ago

Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20221006171641/https://www.other...

JoshGG2• 3 years ago

If you find these types of 'disappeared in the wilderness' stories interesting, there's a really interesting one about a group of skiers in the Ural Mountains:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-sov...

karlzt• 3 years ago

Read it while listening to this related Dark Ambient:

Sana Obruent — Dyatlov (2017): https://youtu.be/2tNVZqbR1YA

RamblingCTO3• 3 years ago

Or this post rock song/the album "departure songs" by We Lost The Sea": [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjK63m2GLek [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBOVkptjJhE

karmelapple• 3 years ago

This reminded me of the strange story of Takako Konishi, a woman from Japan who came to North Dakota and was found dead, dressed very inappropriately for the cold winter weather.

The story that was shared by news outlets said she was searching for the briefcase full of cash that appeared in the movie Fargo by the Coen Brothers.

The reality was very different. [1] [2]

[1] https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/12/04/the-true-story-of-th...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi

rcurry2• 3 years ago

I ran into some folks in a similar situation a few years back in the Lucerne valley. We were driving out to check a campsite for a party we were going to have the next weekend and came across some folks in a Pontiac Grand Am - same story, they’d started getting bogged down in the sand and so kept accelerating deeper into the nowhere, eventually getting high centered on some rocks. When we found them it was a Sunday and they’d been there for nine hours, they told us they hadn’t seen anyone. We were in a big F250 4x4 so we pulled them out and got them pointed back down the road. I wonder what would have happened if we hadn’t shown up that day.

To their credit they had two cases of bottled water in their car so they weren’t entirely stupid.

whartung2• 3 years ago

I think the most heartwarming aspect of this story is simply the institutions and the people available and involved with the search process. Long after the vehicle was abandoned, a lot of people, time, and expertise were let loose and focused on the problem of this missing family.

As of a week ago, they may have stopped now, teams have been searching the local mountains for a missing hiker. They're already 2 weeks into the search.

We take these institutions for granted, but I'm grateful to the team members and volunteers that work these cases.

cloudripper3• 3 years ago

I'm an active volunteer with Inyo County Search and Rescue. I was not around during the author's search efforts but have heard much about this article over the years. I have heard about the harrowing story, the amazing accomplishments of his personal efforts, and the resulting missions that took place to give closure.

Unfortunately, I have heard more about this article because of the antagonistic rhetoric used while telling his tale and to sum up his personal beef with law enforcement personnel - and the "sorry, not sorry" follow-up message to attempt to make that rhetoric ok. To clean-up his rhetoric - he attempts to make clear that he respects any SAR team and his beef with with the Sheriff's Office. He also makes it convenient to add that SAR teams operate under the Sheriff's Office. I have known quite a few who have been offended by the author's statements. These are folks who volunteer and who give a significant amount of their personal time to respond, to put themselves in sometimes very risky/challenging situations to save lives and provide closure.

I have personally been on a number of very challenging searches and rescues in the vicinity of this incident - some of the toughest things I've faced in my life. This is my choice, I am a volunteer and am passionate about going into the mountains to help others as I would hope to be helped. I have known a number of truly good human beings who are passionate about giving of their personal time to help others get out of a difficult space and to help provide closure. In the end, none do it for anyone else's approval. That said, being painted with antagonism when you have done nothing but give can feel like a punch to the gut.

I hope that you will take the fruits from this narrative and leave behind the saltiness. First responders, whether full-time professionals or part-time volunteers, have their quirks. But there are many good humans out there and we have to believe in that -- otherwise, life would be way too salty.

m348e912• 3 years ago

> I have personally been on a number of very challenging searches and rescues in the vicinity of this incident - some of the toughest things I've faced in my life.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. Can you tell us what made your searches so challenging. I suspect the team is well prepared, has adequate resources, and knowledge of the area. Was it mostly the unbearable heat and conditions?

cloudripper3• 3 years ago

The team is often very well prepared, very knowledgeable, and we mostly have the resources needed. That is what makes the mission possible.

Conditions are often challenging (weather, terrain (ranging from Mt. Whitney to Death Valley), and carrying 'rescue' loads, which are much more cumbersome than a recreational load) -- but that is sometimes the fun part of the work.

There are also very long days sometimes. For instance, helicopter resources are not always guaranteed due to availability from other agencies, limited weather windows, and caps on pilot flight hours. You might get flown-in and dropped miles in the back-country in challenging terrain and have to hike out with heavy gear and a litter after an extensive, physical mission - but that is sometimes a part of the adventure.

The biggest challenge is often the mental/emotional side of things - seeing how the person, their friends and family are affected; thinking that you could have done something differently; or wondering how you've gotten so lucky yourself. There have been some heart-breakers in my short time, for sure.

ghaff7• 3 years ago

I think at the end of the day, it's very understandable that Inyo County would be of the mind that they may not know every blow by blow detail but it's a case that's basically solved and they don't want to get dragged into a costly resurfacing of some minor point.

mvexel2• 3 years ago

Thanks for sharing this. I've read this account quite a few times now and I've always wondered if his attitude towards the SAR teams was completely justified. I don't have any personal experience, but I read about rescue efforts by local SAR teams in the local news almost weekly. The risks and danger these volunteers expose themselves to in order to save others are incredible. And often they deal with people who are wholly unprepared and end up in situations requiring rescue that could have been easily avoided. That must be very frustrating sometimes. Thank you for your work!

thaumaturgy4• 3 years ago

Ehhhh.

SAR varies a lot depending on the team, agency, and coordinator. I think it's reasonable to remind people that these are largely volunteer efforts, but it's also reasonable to call out and criticize problems with SAR when they arise. These can be due to poor training, insufficient funding, an inexperienced or unenthusiastic coordinator, or a corrupt sheriff's office. (They exist.)

It's been a while since I last read through Tom's stuff, but as I recall, his main gripe was with the Inyo County Sheriff's Office (and, in the Ewasko case, NPS).

And he's right: because SAR operations, in the US, usually fall under the management of law enforcement agencies, you get as side effects the usual problems associated with law enforcement -- poor information management, big egos, paranoia, credit-seeking, and an emphasis on security over getting the job done, among other problems. This is especially problematic on big incidents where multiple agencies are involved.

CalOES exists in part to get all the kids to play along in the same sandbox, but that sometimes doesn't happen until the operation gets enough attention for a CalOES bigwig to appear in person, and then suddenly the various sheriffs involved start acting like adults.

(Purely for background: I've been in SAR for several years, currently on a hiatus but was extremely active and responded to numerous incidents across the state. I was trained and certified in incident management, was a team leader, and an instructor for several different skillsets. I've butted heads with sheriffs a couple times and had my wrists slapped a time or two. Sometimes they were in the right, sometimes I was.)

cloudripper3• 3 years ago

I don't disagree with your points. Sometimes there are personality issues (we're all a little quirky), sometimes there are structural/institutional issues. The point I raise is pretty focused on the author's harsh parting words and how they are generalized enough to affect those who aren't the individual(s) in question.

atoav• 3 years ago

As someone from the alps where search operations are not rare this makes me wonder. Over here the teams that do the search are seperate entities specifically trained for the (alpine) terrain they operate in.

If they need a specific tool or capability only the police or the firefighters have, they ask them for help. That being said those alpine units are closer to an ambulance than to law enforcement, because that makes more sense

quietbritishjim• 3 years ago

I thought he was clear he was taking about the sheriff's office rather than the search and rescue people.

Even then it was clearly a bit of a grudge and certainly passive aggresive (oh, if you can't even tell me this, I bet you can't organise a SAR operation). But it's an understandable reaction - that final multi day grueling trip could have been avoided if they'd just been told about the children's remains beforehand. Maybe you'd also be annoyed if you went on a trip like that because someone withheld information from you.

It's extra frustrating that he was never properly told the location even afterwards, so after all that effort he (and we) can't know what really happened to them.

Accacin• 3 years ago

This is the first time I've read the story.

I completely understand it how you view this piece as you are out there putting your life at risk. However, for me it came across as nothing more as some minor annoyances that seemed justified from his point of view in the grand scheme of things. We have to remember, he was also out there putting his life at risk too.

In fact, I felt he gave the search and rescue a lot of praise and as a reader I left with a very positive view of the Search and Rescue effort and the people involved, and his annoyances seemed to be with the sharing of information in the years after.

Dazzler5648• 3 years ago

I have met, played with, and admire several Inyo County SAR members, and have only had iffy encounters with the Inyo Sheriffs so far, so in a way I aligned with what the author said. Luckily this man's blog post has nothing to do with you or anything that happened during your time, everyone is entitled to their unique/weird experiences and opinions, and you don't need to defend anyone.

The author sometimes seems a bit unaware that despite being aligned with Riverside Mountain RU, he's not really credentialed to be mixing and gaining access to the ear or information of all the other involved agencies. After he was essentially the source of a leak (the bank card) and had moved evidence, folks might have been justifiably hesitant to enlist him and/or engage him fully. Plus he accomplished something they weren't able to. Annoying! It's a premise for a great story that he inserted himself in this puzzle, and he got to see a whole heck of a lot of puzzle pieces, but does he deserve to place the last few pieces? And might he be a little bit bitter that he wasn't "better recognized" for his work? People are just people. Once we find them rotting in the desert we maybe realize that none of the little stuff matters.

I thank you endlessly for your service.

daveslash• 3 years ago

RE >> "Costs for the search were approximately $80,000 in 1996 dollars."

I have a question about this. But before I proceed, let me be clear: I am not questioning the expense - in my view, it's well spent.

My question: when my local government nit-picks over the cost of a fixing a pot-hole on a main boulevard, how do costs like this get justified at the government level? Especially given the time frame: the vehicle had clearly been there a while and they had evidence that the Germans were there possibly as early as July and the search was October. Not to be grim, but the odds of a survival case were low. Not questioning the expense (well spent), but I'm curious to know more about how these sorts of expenses get justified and approved at the bureaucratic level? This is not a criticism, just a question.

tomcam• 3 years ago

It’s my impression that you’ve uncovered a tiny tiny tip of a very very large iceberg. One simple answer is that not fixing a pothole has almost zero political cost. However, not organizing a huge mediagenic search when tourists from a developed country might die could have a massive blowback. So I think they will just tweak the budget of something else later when everyone else has forgotten in order to pay for the search.

But think about the police departments in places like Los Angeles, Seattle, Baltimore, and Chicago. They quietly pay settlements of tens of millions of dollars per year for police misconduct of all kinds. Somehow these costs are buried in opaque sections of the budget that no one is willing to disclose. It never appears as a line item. It would take multiple annual freedom of information act applications to start to get to the bottom of what’s happening there.

chizhik-pyzhik• 3 years ago

Mirror: https://web.archive.org/web/20210309005828/https://www.other...

out-of-ideas• 3 years ago

asks for a user+password now

https://archive.is/TwoKO

LatteLazy• 3 years ago

I feel like there is a strand in the human brain that cannot deal with not knowing things or being uncertain. You see this in mysteries like this, but you see the same thing in people's belief that UFOs are aliens, or conspiracy theories or religion. People pick an answer and then adhere to it ABSOLUTELY, being less willing to accept it is uncertain than they are facts like gravity. One example of this is flat earth. But the same "thought structure" occurs with people in political matters or vaccine/climate change denial.

Is there a name for this?

dakial1• 3 years ago

Being a dad with 2 young kids, it kinds of break my heart to read this kind of stories. I wouldn't be moved if this was the story of 2 adults only, but man, bringing kids, who at this age have 100% trust on you, to die like that. Poor souls.

The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012)

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