Surface Pro 9 teardown reveals modular parts, Microsoft’s 2023 repair plans

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/surface-9-pro-teardown-reveals-modular-parts-microsofts-2023-repair-plans/

by tooltower • 4 years ago

64 72 4 years ago

rowanG0773• 4 years ago

I don't agree that this is that much of an improvement. I replaced the battery and screen on my old Surface Pro 5. Sure the battery was glued. But that's a drop in the bucket for the glued screen. And since the screen is still glued I don't see how the score should be so jaw droppingly better.

rasz• 4 years ago

modular components: motherboard, thermal module, the Surface Connect Port, speakers, Wi-Fi module, front and rear cameras, and side buttons

Reads like onion. Its "modular" because motherboard is not glued to display and buttons ...

lhoff• 4 years ago

Well my Surface Pro 3 got retired due to a brocken connect port.

The only reason why I bought a Pro 7 was the UBs-C port that allowed charging so that another Bbocken connector wouldnt mean a death sentence.

seltzered_• 4 years ago

With the surface pro 9 its worth noting theres only two usb-c ports, and no headphone jack.

Frustrating as i currently use an HP elite x2 tablet and make full use of the three usb-c ports (charging, tethering, and many times a keyboard) and headphone jack. It's fairly repairable too since its considered more of an enterprise-class device, sadly been discontinued afaik.

stefan_• 4 years ago

Original non blogspam: https://www.ifixit.com/News/68671/does-the-surface-pro-9-mar...

Sakos3• 4 years ago

The RAM is soldered to the motherboard, something that iFixit would typically penalize in the past. But iFixit says that given the power savings and performance boost from proximity to the CPU, it can't punish the decision.

... seriously? At this point it's beginning to feel like iFixit is selling out to these companies. Score of 7/10 and the RAM is soldered. That doesn't compute for me.

If the SSD is actually replaceable as the teardown indicates, that's a huge plus.

If the wifi/BT module is still integrated, that's a big fat minus, because those are the most likely parts that have failed on pretty much every iteration of the Surface and I'm sick and tired of seeing these insanely expensive and impossible to repair devices with parts that quickly fail.

Wowfunhappy3• 4 years ago

Replaceable parts aren't necessarily better if they come with huge design tradeoffs. For maximum replaceability, you should get a desktop—but Microsoft is selling laptops.

I'm glad iFixit is considering the tradeoffs involved here.

Sakos3• 4 years ago

Considering? No, they're ignoring the trade-offs to prefer the one that benefits Microsoft. Their purpose used to be to judge the repairability of devices. It clearly isn't anymore.

trap_goes_hot2• 4 years ago

Aesthetics and design is not as important as the environment and reducing e-waste.

8note• 4 years ago

I dislike that iFixit is making such tradeoffs.

If you tradeoff repairability for performance in the repairability metric, once you compare the repairability metric to the performance metric, you've double counted the performance

solardev• 4 years ago

Don't need to overthink this. It's easy to just have scores for devices of different categories. A 10/10 laptop doesn't have to match the repairability of a 10/10 desktop, but it sure better be more repairable than a 3/10 laptop.

bcrosby95• 4 years ago

So should every laptop be 10/10 for power use, performance, and repairability because tradeoffs?

That 15 watt cpu? 10/10 performance because of the power draw!

That 45 watt cpu? 10/10 power draw because of the performance it provides!

cobertos2• 4 years ago

The tone of this comment is abrasive, but I agree. I _thought_ IFixIt's whole scoring system was about repairability. Not performance, not best value but also repairable.

Feels weird to just throw that out.

Also how does this get a 7/10 when you still have to unglue the screen to do anything but a storage upgrade?

dangus2• 4 years ago

Context is key with these repairability ratings. I always assumed that a score of 7 for a phone means something different than a score of 7 for a laptop or tablet.

It’s not reasonable to expect that a tablet would ever provide modular RAM. It just doesn’t make sense for that form factor.

Sakos3• 4 years ago

Sorry. The tone is abrasive because it's channeling years of having to tell customers with a broken 1500 or even 1000 Euro laptop that it can't be fixed because the manufacturer put zero effort into repairability and, while I wish I could do anything at all to help them, all I can do is tell them 'sorry'. I hated letting down my customers. Meanwhile, companies like Microsoft are making money hand over fist with this stuff with no regard to what happens after the warranty period ends. It makes me furious.

cma• 4 years ago

Aren't RAM latencies due to refresh etc. at least 100X what the wire-delay from speed of electric signal would add to having it farther from the CPU?

wtallis• 4 years ago

Soldering RAM isn't really done for the sake of latency, it's done to save physical volume and to lower power from the memory PHY not having to fight against a connector's insertion loss.

dtgriscom• 4 years ago

My experience is that soldered-on RAM (almost?) never fails. What's the benefit of being able to repair something that doesn't break?

SSDs and external connectors definitely fail, though, and they should be repairable/replaceable.

nicoburns2• 4 years ago

What's the benefit of being able to repair something that doesn't break?

With RAM, generally the ability to upgrade the capacity, which can extend the useful life of the device.

kasabali• 4 years ago

Experience of 99% of people is that component ______ never fails. By that logic no electronic component needs to be replaceable/repairable and the whole repairability discussion is useless gibbery.

innocenat2• 4 years ago

If it's DDR4 or DDR5 that is soldered, sure, I agree that it should be penalised.

But LPDDR4X or LPDDD5? There are legitimate benefit to using low-powered RAM, and these aren't available in DIMM sticks.

madeofpalk2• 4 years ago

I think soldered RAM should always have a penalty for repairability. What else is there for iFixit to judge?

Nullabillity8• 4 years ago

Yeah... this is what happens when review organizations are also selling accessories/parts for the same products...

cobertos2• 4 years ago

You still have to unglue the screen though. And it gets a 7/10?

I really like the Dell Latitude 2-in-1 (tablet) as my Surface clone/replacement. It's held together by screws and it has had Thunderbolt for quite a while now!

jabroni_salad• 4 years ago

ifixit made a lot of concessions. maybe they should try microsoft's warranty process before giving it so many passes, as someone who is struggling to get the fan of my SP8 replaced for something that doesnt sound like it has a loose bearing.

gregoryl• 4 years ago

Odd, I've found the Australian branch of support to be unreasonably excellent, even with personal devices (the corp devices have fancy replacement insurance, MS just ships you a new laptop next day).

Ptchd• 4 years ago

6 or 5 out of 10 sounds about right...

tunnuz7• 4 years ago

I have been looking for a few days for a small Windows-based 2-in-1 tablet with a keyboard cover and a stylus to

  1. carry around and do some coding on,
  2. watching movies / studying and browsing,
  3. drawing / taking notes.

My search so far landed on the Surface Pro 8 and Surface Go 3. The former has significantly better performance, which I like, but it's basically the size of a proper laptop. The latter is 10" or so, which is the size I'm looking for, but apparently has terrible performance. Can anybody recommend some more options?

blackguardx2• 4 years ago

I have a Surface Go 2 and it works fine for the stuff you listed. The only possible issue is that the keyboard isn't full-sized and can feel cramped.

returnofzyx2• 4 years ago

Any thoughts on the relatively low PWM frequency of the Surface Go 2's display? Do you notice it?

cowtools• 4 years ago

I reccomend the Lenovo Surface Gogo Plus 4, it has a great screen and battery life for doodling on the go. The YangShi Utilipad Pro is another great option if you are on a limited budget

tunnuz7• 4 years ago

Do you mean the Lenovo Tab P11 Plus?

justsomehnguy• 4 years ago

but apparently has terrible performance

This is probably for eMMC version with 4GB RAM. SSD version with 8Gb should be just fine your listed tasks.

tunnuz7• 4 years ago

Thanks!

Kipters• 4 years ago

If the cost and size of the Pro 8 is ok for you compared to the Go 3's, consider the Pro X or the newer Pro 9 5G, they're based on a ARM64 SoC [0]. They're more than enough for all of what you mentioned, they're fanless and the battery lasts longer

[0] Microsoft SQ2 and SQ3 respectively, which in turn are binned and rebranded Snapdragon 8cx Gen 2 and 3 respectively

Nullabillity8• 4 years ago

"Do some coding" can mean a lot of things. Rustc still chews through desktop-class CPUs.

tunnuz7• 4 years ago

I think that the size is an important detail for me. I have a 13" laptop that I can use when I can carry it, but I'm thinking more something that I can fit in the front pocket of my Napapijri Rainforest jacket.

nicbou• 4 years ago

Try the Windows drawing software first. I found all of it nigh unusable and ended up getting an iPad Mini.

Having to go through file save dialogs to close the drawing app just killed the joy for me.

tunnuz7• 4 years ago

I have picked up https://www.heavypaint.com, which I use as a pastime (I am not an illustrator). It's multi-platform, but I believe it needs to be installed outside of the Microsoft store.

sahaskatta• 4 years ago

It's unfortunate that needing a heat pad to melt glue simply to replace the battery is considered repairable. I miss the era when we could just pop a battery in or out of a phone or laptop.

Surface Pro 9 teardown reveals modular parts, Microsoft’s 2023 repair plans

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