UK to hand over Chagos back to Mauritius

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/03/uk-agrees-to-negotiate-with-mauritius-over-handover-of-chagos-islands

by ijuhoor • 4 years ago

65 52 4 years ago

easytiger8• 4 years ago

Back? They weren't populated until the British brought them there and were never a Mauritian property. Futhermore the only people who lived there were there as employees of the Chagos Agalega Company. From 1838 onwards. It's like getting a job on an oil rig and demanding you get to keep the rig. The fog of pseudo history written in terms of marxist terminology descends on our civilisation determined to rewrite reality

https://www.uniset.ca/naty/2003EWHC2222.htm

sterlind• 4 years ago

from your own link:

The abolition of slavery in 1833, and the entitlement of slaves to remain in the colony in which they were freed, meant that many freed slaves had continued to work the plantations.

so slaves worked the plantations on the island before 1838.

and as an aside, what do you mean by Marxist terminology? I didn't see "proletariat" or "bourgeoisie," nor workers seizing the means of production. it's sloppy and lazy to use "Marxism" as a catch-all bogeyman.

easytiger8• 4 years ago

so slaves worked the plantations on the island before 1838.

Yes, they were freed by the British and compensated in 1833. As they were post removal in 68. 1838 was the year they were working in Chagos on 2 year rolling contracts (as was common for non enslaved people in such businesses prior to 1833).

so slaves worked the plantations on the island before 1838.

And they were brought there by the british & french mainly. The french & dutch inhabited it first, before any of these people's ancestors.

and as an aside, what do you mean by Marxist terminology? I didn't see "proletariat" or "bourgeoisie," nor workers seizing the means of production. it's sloppy and lazy to use "Marxism" as a catch-all bogeyman.

Ignoring history by framing everything as a class/exploitation problem rather than looking at what really happened. It's very common to ignore history now and use feelings to assert because someone might have been exploited that overrides reality.

mytailorisrich4• 4 years ago

The Chagos were part of Mauritius until the UK split it at independence in order to provide a military base to the US and they expelled the inhabitants in the process...

easytiger8• 4 years ago

It was never Mauritian. I think what you mean is it was part of the British territory in the region prior to gaining independence.

Mauritius itself was an unpopulated island before being discovered by the Dutch. The Dutch have more claim to call themselves indigenous to Mauritius than most Mauritians

mjw1007• 4 years ago

Note that this is the British Indian Ocean Territory, perhaps best known in these parts for having the .io cctld.

veidr• 4 years ago

Oh, the TLD that went down for many hours (more than a day IIRC?) that one time a couple years ago — forcing all the companies like the one I work at, who host their own stuff on .io and use statuspage.io, to really scramble... fun times!

This sounds from the article like a great thing — or I mean, at least a partial righting of a historical injustice — but I am also interested to know: does it have any implications for the .io TLD?

clarionbell2• 4 years ago

It's also part of the dispute. https://www.jlevy.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/OECD-July-28...

pelagicAustral3• 4 years ago

Pop! Here we go. Argentina has entered the chat.

Claims over the Falkland Islands are likely getting dusted once again, right side of the Andes.

LatteLazy• 4 years ago

They get raised every time there is an Argentine election or political or economic crisis...

pelagicAustral3• 4 years ago

Every fortnight then.

mytailorisrich4• 4 years ago

Cases are very different and the outcome here has no bearing on the Falklands even if Argentina might try to claim otherwise.

tyho• 4 years ago

Absolutely not, the principle is self-determination which means we keep the Falklands by a very clear margin.

GekkePrutser• 4 years ago

Most of these enclaves and foreign colonies haven't really been kept to support the locals though, but more as a power play. A remote base of operations and a statement to the world. I truly doubt Thatcher really cared about the couple thousand of remote inhabitants during the falklands war, but rather the prospect of losing a strategic remote base and losing face in the geopolitical arena (as well as at home obviously)

Importing your own population into conquered territory and letting them vote is a dirty trick we don't accept from countries like Russia but using it as a justification ourselves undermines our legitimacy of that argument. The fact that these things happened a long time ago makes it a bit less of a statement but still it remains a double standard. The Crimean deportation of locals is also a long time ago but we still blame Russia for taking it over (and rightly so). I'm really happy to see governments finally admitting their mistakes like in this case.

The Falklands, Diego Garcia, Gibraltar are all in very strategic places. Now, there is something to be said about protecting the Falklands as Argentina isn't the most stable country in the world, but would the Gibraltar population really be so much worse off if they were ruled by Spain? The hundreds of thousands of British that live in Spain clearly don't think so.

iso16315• 4 years ago

Undemocratic countries do not like self determination.

If the vast majority of people who were born and live in a region want to be an independent country, that's their call. That could be Scotland, Falklands, Catalonia, Northern Cyprus, Texas, Ceuta, Crimea, Tibet, Hong Kong, Quebec, Reunion, etc. If they want to be part of another country then it's still their call, but obviously the other country also has to agree.

(I accept there's probably some discussion about how recent immigrants count, and the size or duration of the majority to make something change but the principal of self determination is one of the most basic rights people have)

pelagicAustral3• 4 years ago

8% population increase since last census (2016). https://www.falklands.gov.fk/policy/2021-census/census

Almost 70% of the population identifies as Falkland Islanders, British, or a combination of both. The diversity of national identities almost doubled compared to 2016, with 86 different nationalities counted, and more people identify as being a Falkland Islander in addition to their cultural background.

louistsi• 4 years ago

The issue with this argument is resettlement of citizens not from that region to alter the demographics, as is the case of Northern Cyprus. If your nation isn't given the right to self-determination until your existing community is outnumbered by settlers 2:1, did you really ever have the right to self-determination in the first place? Does a referendum in that case accurately represent the native communities that represented the invaded nation, or does it then represent the invading nation through the settlers?

mbg721• 4 years ago

Who determines the borders of a "region"? Can a few Tory-leaning families in an independent Scotland declare their neighborhood an exclave of the UK? Clearly there's still some kind of implicit requirement of geopolitical muscle.

captn3m0• 4 years ago

Article title:

UK agrees to negotiate

Title on HN:

UK agrees to hand over

title should be changed. Did Guardian update it at their end?

iso16315• 4 years ago

You can tell " UK to hand over Chagos back to Mauritius" isn't a Guardian title -- no spelling mistakes.

ijuhoor2• 4 years ago

My bad, I got excited. I can't edit the title though.

ukoki• 4 years ago

As long as we're being pedantic: "hand over X back to" is mixing phrases -- are they handing it over or handing it back? It should be "hand X over to" or "hand X back to"

clarionbell2• 4 years ago

Nobody can blame people wanting to return to their homes. But if I were in their shoes I'd be very careful about what their new government will do next.

People of Chagos were useful as a leverage and international shaming tool. But once they return, and islands go to Mauritius ... they will be tiny, economically deprived minority, sitting so far unexploited resource trove. And you can ask East Timor how that goes.

The marine protection area, one of the largest in the world, is obviously going to disappear. UN calls it illegitimate land grab, and it technically is, so without the only backer (UK), there will be nothing holding back exploitation.

goodcanadian• 4 years ago

I have long been generally supportive of the people's right to return, but I am far more sceptical of Mauritius' claim to the islands. They were administered from Mauritius when Mauritius was a British colony, but otherwise, they do not have a strong geographical or historical connection there. I guess, ultimately, it is up to the Chagosian people what political arrangements they want, and I hope the negotiators make determining that a priority.

ijuhoor2• 4 years ago

I’m not expecting my government (Mauritius) do do some meaningful change though. They already did a similar thing in a small island: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2021/8/5/why-is-india...

funshed• 4 years ago

Indeed - though negotiations could tie the USA and UK into some form of recognition and protection. Especialy since USA wants to keep its base.

treme• 4 years ago

I'm very surprised to hear of this, my guess is US will just forever stall their 'negotiation' with UK considering Chagos is a key military interest in the region for the US

fazfq• 4 years ago

"Conservative" government.

lotophage• 4 years ago

An article in The Atlantic about it recently too:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/07/reclaim...

teleforce• 4 years ago

Apparently the Chagos Archipelago is much closer in distance to the Maldives than Mauritius. It would not be a surprise if they are claiming that area as well.

Stevvo• 4 years ago

A great example of non-violent resistance. The UK would not be at the table without the flag-raising trip; it forced their hand as the only other option was violently confronting the landing Mauritian vessel.

UK to hand over Chagos back to Mauritius

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