Jony Ive on Life After Apple

https://www.wsj.com/articles/jony-ive-apple-design-interview-profile-lovefrom-11666733971

by helsinkiandrew • 4 years ago

48 96 4 years ago

wsj.com

helsinkiandrew• 4 years ago

https://archive.ph/gLOZa

nier4• 4 years ago

A decent comment like this one shouldn’t be so far down.

I feel like people are rushing right past the article and commenting on their biggest pet peeve when it comes to Apple’s design decisions.

uptown• 4 years ago

"He is of the generation that believed that design should last and that it shouldn’t be replaced every year,” says Sudjic

I'm still using a 27" 2012 iMac that, to me, looks as good as anything new they've produced. Ten years for a desktop machine sounds like a "win" for for both design and longevity.

miohtama2• 4 years ago

Was Ive responsible for the drive for “thinner an thinner” as it is sometimes claimed?

Less ports, worse keyboard, no MagSafe, etc. everything power users did not fancy.

pcurve2• 4 years ago

I’m sure some of that was done in collaboration with bean counters

randomsearch4• 4 years ago

Yes and it was great. I hope you enjoy your extra ports so I can lug around my heavier more cumbersome devices with me, all day every day.

I think they've made a huge mistake in catering to the nerds rather than pushing the envelope for the average consumer. Never heard a civilian complain about the ports on their mac.

cyber_kinetist• 4 years ago

His later involvement in the Apple lineup really didn’t paint him in a positive light, if we remember the atrocities with the “trashcan” Mac Pro, the notorious butterfly keyboard, the questionable Touch Bar, etc. They were all highly unpopular changes that were all rolled back once he left the company.

pcurve2• 4 years ago

Apple hasn’t made a decent mouse for more than twenty years starting with the hockey puck.

snowwrestler• 4 years ago

It’s worth remembering that the trash can Mac Pro was an engineering bet on a new ecosystem, specifically external GPUs, which were made possible by the incredibly high speed of the Lightning port/cable.

That ecosystem of accessories did not develop as Apple hoped it would, which essentially stranded the Mac Pro design and made it look (in retrospect) like a stupid design. And Apple kept hoping the ecosystem would develop, so they waited too long to replace it.

Apple has done great with many similar bets (USB, FireWire, removing optical disk drives). This one just didn’t work out.

jacooper6• 4 years ago

I really disagree about the Touchbar.

I don't understand the negativity against it.

Even though I don't use a Mac, the touch bar is extremely useful, you can click buttons through it, scroll videos, have per-app shortcuts, text suggestions and much more, it really felt like a magical experience.

I was disappointed when Apple removed the touch bar, they could've just added the function row without removing it.

wffurr• 4 years ago

I used a trashcan Mac Pro up until this year when I replaced it with an M1 Pro Macbook. It was a great machine. Fast, silent, just did it's job and looked cool while doing it. It was like I was living my childhood dream of having a Silicon Graphics workstation.

randomsearch4• 4 years ago

The keyboard didn't work, mine broke, but the direction was right imo. Not enough testing I guess.

Thinner and lighter is better for a device you carry round 24/7.

ben_w• 4 years ago

To me, the transparent bondi blue original iMac looked better than the pastel shades on the new iMac.

It's not all rose-tinted past however: the original had a mouse that was hard to use all the time, not merely while recharging as the new one.

jonhohle2• 4 years ago

I just picked up an acrylic, 23” Cinema HD display (https://everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/appl...), and it is stunning. It even has a higher resolution screen than most 23” monitors available today (1920x1200).

I’m not sure I personally like it as much as the aluminum displays that followed it, but it is such a head turner that’s almost like an art piece in addition to its function.

YurgenJurgensen3• 4 years ago

The removal of Target Display Mode from the iMac was a huge mistake, and has probably created a huge quantity of e-waste. But I bet it sold a lot of iMacs that otherwise would have been Mac Minis, so Apple don't care.

MichaelZuo2• 4 years ago

“Language is so powerful,” says Ive, who often begins a new project with conversation or writing, not sketches. “If [I say] I’m going to design a chair, think how dangerous that is. Because you’ve just said ‘chair,’ you’ve said no to a thousand ideas.”

The older I get the more I believe this to be the most difficult aspect of making decisions. Saying 'no' to thousands of potentialities seems scary because it's a memento mori of the finiteness of individual lives.

tempodox• 4 years ago

memento mori

MichaelZuo2• 4 years ago

Thanks, updated it.

As a sidenote, Safari 16 spellcheck on macOS 12 really does not like latin phrases.

seabea• 4 years ago

Many of Ive's initial designs of products were fantastic and great examples of Dieter Ram's principles of design.

Unfortunately I think he drank a bit too much of his own kool-aid and "innovated" on the original designs in ways that were user hostile and didn't serve to complement the function of the products.

jmisavage• 4 years ago

His best work was done when Jobs was there to challenge him or reign him in.

jacooper6• 4 years ago

“I love making things that are profoundly useful,” he adds. “I’m a very practical craftsperson.”

Looks down on the apples magic mouse which needs to be flipped to charge, practical indeed

DanCarvajal• 4 years ago

I find the Magic Mouse such a conflicting product. The touch sensor on it is amazing and really innovated in the mouse space, but ergonomically it's a mess.

YurgenJurgensen3• 4 years ago

The OG Magic Mouse that took AA batteries was a far superior product. Mine still works. They got it right, and then took a step backwards both in convenience and in repairability.

aniforprez• 4 years ago

Looks down at the Macbook with butterfly keys that are broken and nods along

iammjm• 4 years ago

How often did your Apple Mouse die during work? The battery is crazy good on this thing, it’s literally a single charge per month. For me it’s a non-issue

cercatrova2• 4 years ago

Is that not by design? Apple doesn't want the user to plug in the mouse to charge, forget to unplug it, and use it like a wired mouse. They therefore force the user through its design to literally be unable to use it that way. In my view that's good design, as it follows the goals of the designer. If one contends that design should follow the goals of the user, well, there are always other mice one can use.

replygirl• 4 years ago

trading off the ability to _keep using your mouse immediately after it dies_ for that is not good design

hasperdi• 4 years ago

I think that's an apologist's view. A practical product should optimize on the user experience & functionality, Magic mouse looks good, but the ergonomic & usability are lacking

nulld3v• 4 years ago

So is the Apple Trackpad badly designed then because it lets you use it in a wired manner?

Why can the trackpad be used wired but the mouse not?

pwinnski• 4 years ago

Contra some other responses, I do think that was the intended design. However, I think it was a bad design, because it forces the desired behavior, rather than encouraging it.

Stick the charge port on the side, so that it's awkward to use while plugged in, but not impossible. Now you've accomplished the same goal, without completely alienating everyone who has ever had the thing die while using it.

lern_too_spel• 4 years ago

A mouse you can use all the time is simply useful. To be profoundly useful, it must give you longer breaks from time to time to step back and think holistically about your work and do so without the fussiness of a timer you will undoubtedly forget to reset. Think different.

jacooper6• 4 years ago

Steve Jobs clapping from his tomb

amelius2• 4 years ago

“I love making things that are profoundly useful,” he adds. “I’m a very practical craftsperson.”

Meanwhile, thousands of hardware and software engineers who actually make the thing work are not in the news.

whywhywhywhy3• 4 years ago

Why your own PR within your work is important. Why also advice about modesty being a virtue is a scam.

If you won’t shout about how great your own work is, how can you expect anyone else to?

amelius2• 4 years ago

Can you even speak about your work if you're inside Apple?

ruph123• 4 years ago

There is one design directions that I am really salty about which Ive (reluctantly) innovated: protruding phone cameras lenses.

I read somewhere that he was not happy about that but had to go with it. But since the iPhone 6, the bumps have grown bigger and bigger and are almost like status symbols now. The worst are protruding lenses on iPads which cannot lay flat on the table.

That and magic mouse charging port if course but luckily this did not catch on with other vendors.

edent2• 4 years ago

They stick out because they know that many users will add a case.

Otherwise the case would shade the lenses.

justin66• 4 years ago

Is that a problem you or someone you know experienced prior to the use of lenses that stick out?

ghaff• 4 years ago

Given the camera is one of the more important functions of a smartphone for me, I'll pretty much take anything within reason that improves camera performance. (I'm less convinced of bumps for iPads although presumably some percentage of users value the rear camera on an iPad as well. Certainly the latest Pro ones are played up by Apple for video.)

randomsearch4• 4 years ago

Totally agree about the camera lenses. That's actually the first time I've read someone saying it here.

OTOH, I went into an Apple store recently and the industrial design has absolutely tanked since Ive left. I know nerds are happy about the extra ports etc., but the phones and macbooks are thicker and heavier and that is a step backwards for me. As for the iMac designs... yuck. I presume these are all designed without Ive, so stark is the contrast. The worst display I've seen in an Apple store, ever.

philliphaydon• 4 years ago

I only have a couple of sore devices (phone, appletv, Apple Watch) but I think things are better now without Ives… I saw a MacBook Pro 14” at the store for the first time 2 weeks ago. I now want one. I haven’t wanted an apple computer since the first retina. My wife instantly fell in love with the iMac and wants one. She said it’s so pretty.

markild• 4 years ago

To each their own.

I _love_ the tradeoffs between size, weight, battery life and performance in my Macbook 14" laptop.

CGamesPlay• 4 years ago

I kinda interpreted that as tacit admission that you were supposed to put a case on your phone. It does seem to fit pretty naturally with cases now, which have an open portion over the camera lens.

kenny11• 4 years ago

Except that even adding a case isn't sufficient any more. The camera bump on the iPhone 14 Pro is so tall that it still extends beyond the standard Apple cases.

whywhywhywhy3• 4 years ago

Hate the “well everyone uses cases” argument to the lens creep. I’ve never used a phone case, never smashed a screen, also I don’t see the point in the fetishization of materials if it’s just gonna be covered in a case anyway, may as well be plastic from that logic.

endemic• 4 years ago

I reluctantly bought an official Apple case to use with my iPhone 13 mini, due to the giant camera lenses. Guess what? The case itself isn't flat! The lenses are so large that the case itself has guard bumps around the camera opening. This is the world we live in now.

ElfinTrousers2• 4 years ago

Jony Ive, the Corbusier of industrial design. The comparison is not meant to be a compliment.

nier4• 4 years ago

From Wikipedia:

“Le Corbusier remains a controversial figure. Some of his urban planning ideas have been criticized for their indifference to pre-existing cultural sites, societal expression and equality, and his alleged ties with fascism, antisemitism, and eugenics, and the dictator Benito Mussolini have resulted in some continuing contention.”

With such a public record on Corbusier, my first thought is that you need to qualify your analogy. You write that you did not mean it as a compliment. What exactly makes Ive the Corbusier of industrial design?

ElfinTrousers2• 4 years ago

To be clear, I don't know anything about Ive's political or philosophical beliefs, so that is not what I'm talking about. I'm making an analogy based on the fact that both were very influential in their respective fields, on the similarities they had in their styles, and their willingness to put style over function.

Also let me say this explicitly, this is not an invitation to debate the merits of Ive, Ive's work, or any associated topics like Apple hardware more generally. I mean, you can have the debate, I can't stop you, but I also won't be participating.

Nathanael_M• 4 years ago

The negativity in these comments is shocking and smug. However you feel about Apple and specific design decisions, Jony Ive is inarguably an exceptionally talented, successful, and influential designer that pushed entire industries out of chintzy, eye-sore, fast-fashion territory. High quality materials and (largely) enjoyable user experiences. Every human values that. The reason companies prioritize that is because of Jony Ive and Steve Jobs, like it or not.

rideontime2• 4 years ago

Tthe buttterfly keyboard fiasco undid all tthat goodwill for a lott of people.

voisin3• 4 years ago

Because only when a track record is 100% perfect does it count, right? Anyone who is less than perfect must be garbage.

cptskippy4• 4 years ago

I don't disagree that they transitioned the industry to higher quality materials but they fully embraced the fashion lifecycle. There's a new iThing released every year immediately making your fully functional prior year iThing obsolete.

They might be using higher quality materials and adhere to aesthetic functionalism or whatever but their products fully embrace the fast-fashion expiration date.

orev• 4 years ago

My iPhone 13 is still fully functional, even after they announced the 14.

voisin3• 4 years ago

immediately making your fully functional prior year iThing obsolete.

Obsolete, or just no longer the newest, most coveted thing? I am still using an iPhone 11 and my wife uses an iPhone 8 and neither of us would consider our devices obsolete. Just less shiny and desirable.

jamil7• 4 years ago

Fair enough but I think there’s still a lot of bad blood among professionals as he pushed Apple products (particularly the laptops) away from premium workhorses towards something like luxury consumer products. A lot of the decisions he made have (thankfully) since been undone in the latest generations.

poisonborz• 4 years ago

For anyone who didn't read the article yet, it tells basically nothing of Ive's "Life After Apple" - except that he's working at his LoveForm agency, something he announced right at the resignation.

nier4• 4 years ago

What’s new to me is the fact that they hired a full-time writer early on. At my current gig I write acceptance criteria for a living so the following excerpt really spoke to me:

«One surprising thing about Ive’s approach is that conversation, rather than sketches, is how he often begins a project. Thinking—and then speaking about that thinking—is the raw material he works with. “Language is so powerful,” Ive says. “If [I say] I’m going to design a chair, think how dangerous that is. Because you’ve just said chair, you’ve just said no to a thousand ideas.»

The experience that I’m having is that there’s a fine line between a description being either too broad or overly narrow. The latter excludes lots of solutions that might be better than the obvious one at the time of writing. The former has everybody scratching their heads. :D

Jony Ive on Life After Apple

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