You'll Get a Cow if You Work at This Company

http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2011/12/01/work-at-this-company-and-youll-get-a-cow-a-fixie-and-an-unlimited-supply-of-your-favorite-beer/

by jrosenblatt • 15 years ago

58 58 15 years ago

thenextweb.com

frankdenbow2• 15 years ago

ridiculous

bradleyland• 15 years ago

Is it? You know what I hear from developers a lot? "I make enough money. I'm interested in solving interesting problems and working with interesting people."

So Amicus gives a small-ish amount of cash (relative to other signing bonuses I've seen), but ties in several other perks that say a lot about company culture. Each of their ideas says something about the company:

Counter Culture coffee - I didn't know anything about this brand before seeing this listing, but it appears their focus is sustainability and education.

Donated dairy cow - I've heard of this one before, and another similar program with goats. More "responsible world citizen" action.

Gym memberships - Combined with other items on the perk list, it appears that Amicus wants to provide you the opportunity to live a balanced life that includes fitness.

iPad 2 - Ostensibly for "prototyping", but really a statement that they want to provide you with tools that allow you to work while comfortable. More balance.

Iron Man Helmet - Manditory for all company events, I'm assuming. This is just fun!

Unlimited beer - The statement here is that the company is laid back and trusts you to do the responsible thing.

Fixie bike - Hipster fantastic, but who are we to judge? It reinforces the fitness/balance statement.

frankdenbow2• 15 years ago

Amicus is a set of good people. Just being snarky

sethbannon6• 15 years ago

bradleyland we couldn't have put it better ourselves!

synnik2• 15 years ago

Yes, it is ridiculous. They are ensuring that they get people who are interesting... and all the exact same flavor of interesting. It feels juvenile, even if they intended it sincerely.

Maybe they are find people, and maybe it is a fine company. I have no way of knowing. But this approach does not appeal to me, personally because is feels like it is trying too hard.

pluies_public• 15 years ago

Maybe. But yet, they managed to let thousands of programmers to know that they're hiring.

The cow might just be a gimmick (and let's face it, you can't do more hipsterish than the fixed-gear bike), but it's pretty awesome guerrilla marketing.

pnathan• 15 years ago

honestly, this is one of the most memorable job postings I've ever seen.

a cow.

seriously.

randomdata• 15 years ago

I was just a little disappointed to find they weren't really giving a cow. I have a barn she can stay in and everything.

robinwarren• 15 years ago

awesome

dfriedmn• 15 years ago

We need more companies with real business models focused on solving social problems. I couldn't be more excited about this rising crop of "do well by doing good" companies. I expect big things from Amicus.

natesm• 15 years ago

Ok, so what is the appeal of fixed gear bikes? They can't be that good for exercising/fun, it seems like not being able to shift would make riding sloooow anywhere that isn't Kansas.

Wilduck• 15 years ago

I don't own one and I didn't get it at first, but after riding one I definitely saw some of the appeal. They are very fun to ride in a "I'm totally connected to this bike" sort of way. If you also take off the hand brake, then there's an added element of fun (and terror) because you're using the same mechanism to go and to stop. There's a sort of minimalist joy in the experience.

Really, if you get a chance, ride one for a bit. They're not super practical on hills, but they work surprisingly well because they're so light.

schwabacher• 15 years ago

I agree, they are pretty fun. To go fast, you have to pedal fast. It makes it feel like you are going REALLY fast.

That said, I wouldn't want to ride one as my only bike.

aplusbi• 15 years ago

They give you an incredible amount of control and balance at slow speeds, which is often useful for city riding. They are also really fun in a way that is hard to explain (at least without sounding really pretentious).

Plus they are required for track racing, which is also fun for completely different reasons.

mattangriffel• 15 years ago

The real reason for getting a fixed gear bike is that there are less parts to maintain. They don't have all those gears so they can be much lighter. They also tend to not break as often. The downside is that you don't get the advantage of being able to switch gears, which tends to not matter in cities like Manhattan because there aren't many hills and you never reach high speeds for long stretches anyway.

On top of that there's an aesthetic aspect to the simplicity. I tend to find them really beautiful in a post-modern art kind of way.

fennecfoxen2• 15 years ago

That's the practical reason. The real reason, though, is street cred. ;)

joebadmo• 15 years ago

The late Sheldon Brown is my go-to resource for all things cycling: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html

(Plus his website is awesome.)

ImprovedSilence2• 15 years ago

Huge props for the Sheldon Brown shout out, never thought I'd see him pop up on this site. Anytime I've got to do bike maintenance, he's the first place I go.

edit: Now that I think about it though, he's the epitome of hacker culture, applied to the bicycle world.

ImprovedSilence2• 15 years ago

It's really not that practical, but kinda fun. In the summer, you can't rest while going down hill, thus I get waaaay too sweaty. It's also a bit of a fashion statement, if you're into that sorta thing. Very popular amongst certain sub-cultures * cough * hipsters cough If you're an overly practical person, you have no use for them, just continue on, and don't hate.

On another note, in most, even hilly places, I'll usually only use 3-4 out of my 20 possible gears, so getting along with just one isn't too too bad, it's really the inability to coast that gets ya.

famousactress2• 15 years ago

Other commenters already mentioned the limited amount of pieces to break or maintain (a big plus). Other benefits:

1. The amount of waste between your legs and the road is supremely limited. Until you've been on (evan a cheap) fixed gear you really haven't felt how much power gets lost in a bike with a de-railer setup. It's very addicting.

2. Weight. Sort of related to above.. The truth is, I like climbing most hills on my fixed better than on my geared bike because it's so light. Gears are nice, but there's no substitute for just plain doing less work.

jrockway6• 15 years ago

You can build light fixed-gear bikes, but most fixed-gear bikes you buy at a store are going to be heavier than a racing bike from the same store. Of course, the price difference is going to be $3000, so perhaps that doesn't matter much. I have a steel single/fixed bike for commuting and a carbon-fiber racing bike, and the racing bike is about 7 pounds lighter than the fixed-gear bike. (I do have some bells and whistles on the commuting bike that add weight, like a chainguard, fenders, and a rack; but those only add about a pound or so.)

I'm going to try to build a sub-15-pound fixed-gear bike in the near future, so we'll see how that goes. The reason you see so many 15-pound derailer bikes is because 14.99 pounds is the lower limit for UCI races, and the people that spend money on light bikes are doing that to ride them in UCI races.

As for wasted power; I picked a gear that matches my fixed gear bike's gear and rode both for a mile at a 95rpm cadence. Same heart rate both times, which means my body is working equally hard to propel both the same distance and speed. Pushing your sail-like body through the air is where your energy goes when riding a bike. Everything else is a rounding error.

(It would be nice if someone with power-measuring pedals and a power-measuring hub could try both scenarios, though. Then you would know exactly how many watts are being lost in the drivetrain.)

freiheit• 15 years ago

Here's some answers about why some people ride fixed gear bikes: http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q/1980/76 And related to that, single-speeds: http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q/1983/76

blhack2• 15 years ago

They're fun... (Here is a picture of one that I built: http://thingist.com/t/item/15467/)

But they're kindof a novelty. Mine is a daily driver, but I wish it wasn't (I'm saving up for a replacement).

1) My knees hurt, a lot, from riding it.

2) "A good cadence" on this bike is really really fast. This is good for me, but I'm a social creature, I'm usually riding with other people, and those other people don't necessarily want to be flying around at "oh no I'm late" speeds.

3) Hills. You can't downshift to go up hills.

4) Mine has a brake, so the brake thing isn't a big issue to me. Granted I wish the brake was chunkier, but that's my own fault since I built the bike.

The people who talk about "less parts" are just plain wrong, and are confusing a fixed gear bike with a single speed bike. Fixed gears are a type of single speed, and it's being a single speed that makes things simple.

The bottom line is that fixed gear bikes are fun but, like I said, they're kindof a novelty. My legs have definitely gotten stronger riding mine (her name is Annabelle), so that's a plus, I guess.

jrockway6• 15 years ago

You should probably change the gear ratio. I use 42/16, which doesn't hurt my knees but is still around 18mph at 100rpm. Incidentally, my average cadence while commuting is only about 60rpm, so this is probably too high a gear for my actual needs. 42/19 would save my knees and probably be just as good.

jrockway6• 15 years ago

You can build a cheap fixed gear bike to be cheaper than a cheap derailer bike. I haven't priced things out, but I bet an OEM can do it for less than $150. The only parts you need are a frame, fork, seat post, saddle, stem, handlebars, one brake lever, one brake caliper, one short brake cable and housing, bottom bracket, crankset, front wheel (hub, rim, spokes), rear wheel (hub, rim, spokes, cog, lockring), and chain.

As soon as you add a derailer setup, you need an extra chainring, rear brakes, shift cables + housing, the derailer itself, 10 cogs instead of 1, and expensive shift levers. (Even Shimano's low-end 9-speed shift levers are in the $150 range. The good ones are $700!)

pelemele• 15 years ago

1999, is that you?

jaredstenquist• 15 years ago

I was really hoping this startup was actually giving the developers a cow - not donating to an organization that donates livestock (including cows) to hunger stricken areas of the world.

I have donated to the Heifer project before, but never saw "my cow". Regardless of that, it's a great organization. Amicus on the other hand is great at getting news sites to write misleading titles about them.

pault2• 15 years ago

Cows are nature's job creators.

Tyrant505• 15 years ago

You lost me at dairy cow.. :(

pavel_lishin• 15 years ago

"empowers non-profits and political campaigns to leverage the social networks of their supporters to raise more money, attract more members, and win more votes"

To me, it sounds like their product will be a Facebook app that'll ask permission (I hope) to spam my friends.

sethbannon6• 15 years ago

You can check out our demo at http://amicushq.com/ if you'd like to see what our product does.

Timothee2• 15 years ago

Maybe I'm just getting old and uptight but I find things like "unlimited amount of beer" to be a real turn-off. It has a feel of immaturity. "Yeah, let's get drunk! Woohoo!" Really?

It's not the first job ad where I see something along these lines. Sure it tells me that the culture is probably laid-back, but depending on how it's phrased, it can be sound very juvenile.

Sodel• 15 years ago

What's more, the prospect of once again working with a company that prides itself on unlimited beer is horrifying.

At my old job, we worked with a certain game development company at the behest of a larger publisher. They also had recently relocated... to an office directly above a pub with their own brewery.

On the one hand, I have a hard time believing that our bitter jokes were true, and that they actually were perpetually wasted; on the other hand, even just getting responses from them was a bit of an ordeal -- never mind getting even acknowledgement of the bugs that prevented us from continuing with our side of the "partnership". Not the most professional folk, and I can't see how the beer would help.

In the interest of not repeating that experience, I'd certainly want positive evidence that the unlimited beer didn't impede the company's performance or professionalism before I'd work with a company that prided itself on offering unlimited beer.

jrockway6• 15 years ago

I like a beer to relax with coworkers after most of the workday is over. If I have one every day, that's 260 beers a year. Let's say it's good beer and we are buying in bulk, so each bottle costs $2. That's $520 a year for just one person. On a 10-person team where everyone has a couple beers each night, you'd be spending $10,400 on beer, which is a benefit worth mentioning.

You're not going to be drunk from two beers, either, so if you drink at work instead of going to a bar, a little more work has the opportunity to be done. All in all, a nice benefit for everyone.

If you don't drink alcohol, I'm sure they'll buy you an unlimited amount of Perrier or energy drinks or whatever else you want.

sethbannon6• 15 years ago

We do indeed, jrockway. If you'd like honest tea instead, you can have it.

Timothee2• 15 years ago

Honestly, I don't mind or care about people drinking at work. I probably wouldn't mostly because beer makes me very sleepy.

But it's really a matter of phrasing.

"We typically have a couple of beers together at the end of the day" sounds much better than "we'll provide you with an unlimited amount of beer" and likely gives the intended image of the company culture. The former tells me that people like to relax together, the latter focuses on the beer you will have access to and incidentally on the dollar amount of that beer, not the social aspect of it.

seiji• 15 years ago

Frat-themed startup culture has been growing over the past few years. Drink lots, video game lots, hire a bunch of same-culture white guys, then before you know it you have a fully formed 5 hour energy bro-driven corporate culture. Except you're not corporate. You're startup chic.

rdouble• 15 years ago

The startup scene in NYC is pretty "Bro" oriented.

jamescropcho• 15 years ago

an organization's culture should drip from every pore, just like the sweat that builds its products and services.

In the end, it's about effectiveness, and I predict this move will get Amicus in touch with more compatible candidates, than simply writing a large check.

sethbannon6• 15 years ago

Thanks James, we agree!

rguzman2• 15 years ago

this type of job-listing is ridiculous. not because it is juvenile or the sort of a thing that may be indicative of a bubble, but rather, because it is condescending.

in the job market, there are two things i'd like to trade for my skills and time: dollars and equity. i also appreciate and put value on a company having a nice office to work at and that they have a laid-back culture, but they can just say that. i don't need them to buy me my beer or coffee to "signal" that they are hip, i'd rather have the cash and pick my beer when i want to get drunk. i also don't need them to "signal" that they are green by buying me a bike -- i'd rather have them tell me that they care about that and what things do they do as a company to be green.

in general, all these things companies do to "signal" culture strike me as stupid. just say what you value and have your important actions reflect it.

sethbannon6• 15 years ago

Some startups prefer developers who are looking for more than just dollars and equity. While important, those are certainly not the only things that motivate us. We're in this because we want to reshape civil society through innovation, and because we're having the time of our lives doing so. Better to have teammates with similar motivations, and not those driven simply by the bottom line.

rguzman2• 15 years ago

that's a fair point, but also tangential.

i think research shows that people are not motivated by money. people also don't eat money. but money is the best way to buy food -- and also the best way to buy people's time and skills.

picking where you work has a lot of dimensions, such as work-life balance, location, what impact the company is having, and on and on... a startup wants to attract people who are compatible with the things they value. that's what "being a good fit" means -- that's your point. however, i still don't see the need to do that by offering beer. it seems much better to be clear about the things you as a company care about and expect/ask the same from people you hire.

synnik2• 15 years ago

The fact that you keep jumping in and defending yourself after every negative comment makes you look like you are seriously lacking confidence.

Nobody is questioning that you believe in what you do and are doing well at it, and enjoying your work. What we are questioning is your methods.

Let me put it into perspective (my perspective):

If you want to donate $2000 dollars to heifer.org for each employee, just do it. Don't put it in my name. I have my own charities, and would prefer to make my own choice.

Don't buy me a bike. I am disabled and that perk just slaps me in the face with it.

Don't buy me beer. I do not drink, and find the implication that drinking is required for your culture to be a little creepy.

Don't say that I am getting $2000 for R&D. That is pocket change for true R&D, and makes me worry that not only do you not handle budgets well, but that the companies future innovation funding could get messed up in HR negotiations.

The bottom line is that most of your perks scare me. Not because there is anything wrong with offering them, but because it shows a severe lack of empathy for the diversity of people in this world.

hello_moto• 15 years ago

I'm a little bit confused with this "trend":

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57324275-93/work-with-the-c...

Look at the design of the site and the buttons and the "weird" offers:

http://jobs.scopely.com/

http://jobs.usehipster.com/

http://jobs.amicushq.com/

Is this produced by a new web service that creates a cool job advertisement?

blhack2• 15 years ago

These are all almost identical too. They use the same photo of the bike.

ovi256• 15 years ago

Wow, great catch. My guess is it's the same designer that did the three pages, sharing the concept and 80% of the implementation. Was that OK with the clients, I wonder ?

gergles• 15 years ago

> Scopely isn't looking for people that don't get the joke.

No, I get the joke. I just don't think it's funny. There's a big difference, and I think the startups that are using this gimmick need to think really hard about who exactly they are targeting with these things, because it sure does seem to me to be people who value style over substance.

csytan• 15 years ago

Looks like they were made by these guys: http://blue-fusion.com/

fennecfoxen2• 15 years ago

At my office, we have a couple of old BMX bikes that were picked up at garage sales, including one spray-painted blue and white with a small Star of David awkwardly inscribed on the front with a Sharpie and the words "East Side" scratched out on the tube.

We ride the bikes around the office because it's like 8 guys in a 3000+ square-foot warehouse (and because we've camped out in the good offices, but those aren't quite near the restroom).

I didn't get a cow when I started. Instead we got an office convection oven. I bake bread in it from time to time, though it's actually proved more popular for lunchtime frozen pizzas. There's also a panini press. Today our CEO brought in turkey soup leftovers and some ribs.

(We're hiring, but mostly looking for a really good computer vision guy at the moment: http://www.nearbuysystems.com/company/vision )

jrockway6• 15 years ago

I'd prefer to spend my signing bonus however I like.

mkramlich• 15 years ago

So if they hire you they'll ... wait for it ... give you money, plus, some other trinkets you could have just bought with money yourself. Hmmmmm. Put me down as preferring to get either just money, or, things I can't get already with money. easily. But don't make purchasing decisions for me. I may have better things I could spend money on.

terrellm• 15 years ago

Sort of backwards to my company Cattlesoft where we prefer our employees to already have their own cows before coming to work for us.

We develop software for the cattle industry and have had far better luck with hiring people who own cattle or grew up on a ranch as they better relate to our customers.

Of course hiring someone who has their own cattle herd means they can't easily pick up and move to our location so we all work from our own ranches and keep in contact via Campfire and Skype.

pault2• 15 years ago

I have two pygmy goats, is that close enough?

You'll Get a Cow if You Work at This Company

Related Stories