Address by the President of the Russian Federation

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390

by daviddumon • 4 years ago

62 115 4 years ago

en.kremlin.ru

So deciphering the double-speak: Russia is instituting a draft, they consider Crimea part of Russia's territorial integrity, efforts to dehumanize the opposition or paint it as a shadowy international conspiracy continue, and they're threatening nuclear war.

Get ready for WW3.

justbored123• 4 years ago

Get ready for WW3.

Against who? Russia can't even fight Ukraine. China es calling for peace. This is a minor regional conflict. I feel sorry for the people of Ukraine and Russia that are going to suffer and die pointlessly for the delusional imperial ambitions of an old man that lives 75 years in the pass.

Putin is the new Mussolini, getting his ass handed to him while trying to invade Greece and for exactly the same reasons; mainly a low moral, low quality army that doesn't want to fight that war.

theironhammer9• 4 years ago

The Nuclear War threat is not a joke. Just imagine if China or Russia had the same activities in Mexico or Canada that the USA/NATO has had in the Ukraine over many years. How would Washington react?

ROTMetro3• 4 years ago

Putin can't even elevate to full out war and conscription, yet you think he will jump all the way to using nuclear weapons? The threat is completely hollow.

alkonaut7• 4 years ago

What activities are that? And was it these activities that made it possible to completely ignore international laws on territorial integrity and warrant and invade Ukraine outright?

No.

All this “but USA!”, “but NATO!”, “but the Nazis!” whataboutism is complete nonsense.

It doesn’t even begin to explain one country invading a neighbor with 125k men, leveling entire cities and killing thousands of civilians.

Even making hypothetical Mexico comparisons is impossible without focusing the debate around something other than the invasion and therefore sounding like a Russia apologist.

foverzar• 4 years ago

Seems more like a translation TO doublespeak.

You can argue with every point, but won't ever win cuz "it's just a way to communicate without being pedantic", but then you put all of this together and get a complete and utter gibberish. And this is basically how doublespeak works.

theironhammer9• 4 years ago

Crimea affords Russia with a warm water port. There's no way in Hell they will give that up.

Putin took Crimea because he was afraid of losing it if Ukraine joined NATO.

iostream252• 4 years ago

A quote from Kier Giles, whose article in today's Guardian addresses some of the silliness and contradictions in Putin's speech this morning.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/21/vladim...

"few of Putin’s contradictory storylines stand up to even a moment’s critical thought: we are winning in Ukraine – but the forces of the west aligned against us are so powerful that now we need to dig deeper to stay in the fight; our proxy regimes in Ukraine need to hold referendums to join us – but we already know they all want to join; we’re protecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Russia itself – but to do this requires incorporating part of another country; our war aim has always simply been to “liberate” Donbas – but to do that we’ve also taken so much of Ukraine that we have a 1,000km frontline."

iostream252• 4 years ago

My general sense is that not even Putin believes his own rhetoric, such is his inconsistency of thought.

The reality is that Putin has elected to invade a sovereign neighbor country and can unelect to do so. Not one "western" leader, military or civilian, has threatened Russia "existentially" and certainly no one has threatened to invade Russia.

Putin is a liar, to put it simply. He's apparently playing the crazy-card, in attempts to freak the world out, but his constant threats to the entire world of nuclear first-strikes and then saying that "THIS TIME IS NOT A BLUFF" means that people can't really learn much by his unchanging and silly rhetoric. As some boxer said: "Be aware of the main trunk of his body and where it's moving and watch his hands"

namelessoracle3• 4 years ago

Biden publicly called for Putin to be removed. This kind of follows what Chomsky has said, there is no path for PUTIN to de-escalate this situation. I don't see how Putin survives standing down, so he wont.

kranke1555• 4 years ago

This is a nonsense commment. Are you trying to say Biden saying something puts Putin is some kind of impossible position? This is an imperialist war of choice.

Mikeb855• 4 years ago

All the doublespeak is actually pretty amazing to witness... We're defending Russia but also "liberated" Kherson and Zaporizhzhia... The west is threatening us with nuclear weapons... The regime which came into power in 2014 (nevermind that Poroshenko and that whole group were voted out in a democratic election where Zelenskiy and his party, who were notably more friendly to Russia at first, came to power)...

AnimalMuppet3• 4 years ago

But see, if all of Ukraine is really part of Russia, then it all makes sense. They are "liberating" occupied territory, and "defending" Russia itself.

If. But that's a psychological point in Putin's mind, not a reality in the real world. We're at the point where the pathologies of one man are driving this war.

pupppet• 4 years ago

Even that spin doesn't really work, who threatens to nuke their own territory?

Garvi9• 4 years ago

What's actually amazing to witness is an A-list Hollywood director making a documentary on the CIA financing of neo-nazi groups inside Ukraine and their involvement in the killing of Donbass civillians in the civil war now raging for over 8 years and being censored so effectively, few US citizen seem to know about it.

Another fact I find amazing is the maidan revolution being televised for weeks across the globe on all major news channels, with prominent EU leaders traveling to Kyiv and holding speeches to the crowds. One of those was Angela Merkel and hundreds of millions must have seen it. Today this fact is considered Russian propaganda and apparently never happened. Anyone watched the news 6 years ago and isn't afraid of being downvoted on an internet forum? Remember Merkel's "Right to be forgotten" act? Guess what she used it on.

I came to this forum expecting a higher level of conversation than the horror I've witnessed on reddit. Instead I see outrage over "Russia support everywhere" in a thread where literally 1 heavily downvoted comment was not making fun of Russians(at the time of writing of course). I question the sincerity of people behind such comments. We all know psyops exist, but apparently never in our neighborhoods. Another theory is it's just trolling, which is basically a modern version of wife-beating. "Husband comes home from work frustrated where he was taking insults all day from an abusive boss and takes it out on his wife." vs. "Modern internet user is put down by society/boss/wife and takes it out on strangers on the internet." This whole propaganda shit-fest is playing right in the hands of abusers. My father used to say "come war, the bastards move up in society".

And for gods sake, can someone tell me what percentage of the global production is weapons manufacturing? One used to be able to find that piece of information, but not anymore.

secabeen• 4 years ago

If you are making claims about suppressed media, why not include links to said media or information about them? Some might be interested in the documentary or the speech you mentioned.

Mikeb855• 4 years ago

Again though, Zelenskiy's government isn't the post-Maidan government.

It's not 2014 any more...

bartimus• 4 years ago

I hope you're not talking about that propaganda piece from Oliver Stone? One time I spoke with a dog. It told me humans are pretty low level for not understanding the importance chasing balls.

bediger4000• 4 years ago

We used to use the word "kremlinology" to describe efforts to decipher ("bake") the USSR official rhetoric.

That word's time has come again!

topspin6• 4 years ago

Putin has no choice. He's had no choice since he started all of this in 2014; he can't back down because that outcome isn't survivable for a Russian leader.

It's going to take 100,000+ dead Russians. At some point the military and civilian leadership in Russia will realize that Putin has to go, and that is when all this will end.

There is a lot of death and destruction yet to go. Ukraine will struggle with hundreds of thousands of new bodies arming Russia's antique military machine. Iran is flying in large quantities of drones that will expose Ukraine's forces to effective Russian artillery. But the outcome won't change; Ukraine will ultimately win because it's not a war of choice for Ukraine and Ukraine has the allies it needs to keep fighting.

namelessoracle3• 4 years ago

People said much the same about Syria, and yet Assad is still there.

Ukraine would be foolish to trust the North America or Europe to support them forever, especially if even more major economic issues happen in either continent.

That seems to be Putins play, he is hoping the West's internal issues sufficiently flare up. This winter will probably determine that. The only real diplomatic path is to convince China to sever with Russia, and thats not gonna happen. Its well understood China is looking at this as a dry run for what kind of responses to expect if Taiwan gets attacked. And China is the clear winner of the Ukraine conflict right now.

Someone• 4 years ago

The only real diplomatic path is to convince China to sever with Russia, and thats not gonna happen.

It’s not going to fully happen, but Putin met Xi Jinping in Uzbekistan last week, and returned a bit disappointed.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/09/16/world/vladimir-...:

“President Vladimir Putin acknowledged Thursday that China had “questions and concerns” about Russia’s war in Ukraine, a notable, if cryptic, admission that Moscow lacks the full backing of its biggest, most powerful partner on the world stage”

⇒ I don’t think Russia will get much support from China.

topspin6• 4 years ago

Syria isn't a useful analogy for Ukraine. Syria isn't Europe. Syria is a tangled civil war whereas the Russian invasion of Ukraine is bald faced aggression. Syrian rebels do not and will never enjoy the unprecedented level of support Ukraine has.

riku_iki3• 4 years ago

But the outcome won't change; Ukraine will ultimately win because it's not a war of choice for Ukraine and Ukraine has the allies it needs to keep fighting.

how allies will help if Russia will use tactical nukes on Ukrainian forces?

topspin6• 4 years ago

He could try to play that card if he wants. Since we're going full hypothetical here I suspect he'd be removed by Russian military command if he tried. If not then it's WW3 for real; there is no 'tactical' nuke scenario that doesn't lead to a wider war.

mint22• 4 years ago

If Russia uses tactical nukes then god help us all. If one though we were living in interesting times at the moment, they will soon think these are boring times.

If a country invades a neighbor, claims it’s now part of their sovereign homeland while the neighbor is still actively defending, and then uses nukes based the justification their newly occupied “homeland” they just invaded is being invaded by its defenders then it means any country with nukes can use nukes to invade and grab neighboring territory

At the very least, everyone is going to get nukes

trasz9• 4 years ago

Iran is flying in large quantities of drones that will expose Ukraine's forces to effective Russian artillery.

Not really, Russia doesn’t have precision guided munitions. Ukraine - or NATO - is at least decade ahead technologically, maybe two.

topspin6• 4 years ago

Not really, Russia doesn’t have precision guided...

Russia has ample artillery. While they're blind it isn't very effective. Drones correct that deficiency, which is why Russian drones are a serious threat.

anonupennprof• 4 years ago

This may very well be the eve of WW3. The latest Ukrainian victories were due to NATO forces taking over so many core operations, it's basically Russia vs NATO.

This formal declaration by Russia is basically saying they are about to stop holding back. They have purposefully avoid destroying infrastructure like water and power in ukraine for an unusually long time. They also have been sending their b-c teams not their A-list because they wanted to save them.

This action pleases a great deal of the america military complex because money. At least it would have if American troops were in better shape, enlistments were dropping heavily, and troop fitness is dropping radically. The desire for the common man to die for his country has dropped significantly in Russia AND NATO countries.

So you will soon see the following, America will try to rebuild "patriotism" prior to instituting a draft. This is why the pentagon is reviewing all psyops, they are about to reverse the social engineering psyops in motion such diversity and "woke". Russia will push religion to build morale on their side.

I believe a draft in America will lead to disintegration, but only time will tell.

jollyllama• 4 years ago

I don't think you're far off with your first couple of points, but I don't think the USA will try conscription, precisely because it would have destabilizing effects you mention.

mint22• 4 years ago

They also have been sending their b-c teams not their A-list because they wanted to save them

That this comment claims this really says all one need about the comment. Russia Just admitted it was over extended and had exhausted its professional army by declaring a mobilization of reservists.

Everyone clearly knows the professional army is the C list and it’s the reservists that are the true A listers. <heavy sarcasm>

AnimalMuppet3• 4 years ago

The latest Ukrainian victories were due to NATO forces taking over so many core operations, it's basically Russia vs NATO.

Evidence?

NATO is sending a lot of materiel and weapons. NATO is helping with intelligence. If that's what you mean by "core operations", maybe I can see it. More than that? Let's see the evidence.

netmonk3• 4 years ago

Wait the paper is under peer review. This was not clear the experiment was in double blind procedure so the author have to rework the paper before acceptance.

ThalesX• 4 years ago

Interesting read for anyone that might be interested:

2021 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices: Ukraine

BUREAU OF DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND LABOR

https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-country-reports-on-human-...

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/313615_UKRA...

(I love how the downvotes have already begun not even a minute in... how is this not context to the speech? Zealots...)

Blackthorn2• 4 years ago

Hot damn, the whataboutisms are out in force on this article, and not even an hour in.

mikeyouse2• 4 years ago

I’d love to ask the residents of Bucha or Izium what they think about the relative respect for human rights between Russia and Ukraine but of course the Russian military invaded their land and then murdered large swaths of their population and then buried them in mass graves. These things are just the weakest deflections in service of a psychopathic dictator’s imperialistic war.

6c737133• 4 years ago

american gov writing about human rights abuses around the world makes me laugh so hard my balls hurt. Thx for the links

nayroclade• 4 years ago

Apparently, the size of the mobilisation will be 300k people, so this isn't going to be an overwhelmingly large force. The speculation I've seen is that this move is about 1) stopping the attrition of professional soldiers as their contracts expire and 2) providing manpower in logistics and controlling the occupied areas, so as to allow more rest and rotation of front-line soldiers.

kranke1555• 4 years ago

They invaded with less than 300k. It is doubtful that Ukraine has a similar number of professional soldiers (excluding Territorial Defence ).

It’s possible that this will give them an overwhelming force.

AnimalMuppet3• 4 years ago

Ukraine didn't have 300k when Russia invaded. They may have more now. Anyone have data?

And, 300k without artillery, tanks, air support, and logistics isn't an overwhelming force. Does Russia have the rest of what it takes to make them an effective force?

Mikeb855• 4 years ago

Ukraine has more than 300k because their survival is on the line and they mobilised en masse...

Keep in mind Ukraine had 45 million people before the war versus Russia's 144 million. But Ukraine mobilized absolutely everyone they could versus Russia which needs to keep their population content and downplay the "special operation".

ajl6662• 4 years ago

It's sad to see how easily westerners are mislead by our own leaders, who ape Soviet contempt for constituents and maliciously ignore voter inputs.

You should at least make an effort to see things from the Russian point of view. To say there's nothing valid in the Russian state's actions, is really idiotic.

1) Are post WW2 borders sacred?

2) The dissolution of the USSR was chaotic, unnegotiated, and basically due to the magnanimity of Gorbachev.

3) Therefore, post USSR space resembles post-colonial Africa: former co-nationals are now minorities, depending on which post-Soviet state one examines. Armenia and Azerbaijan are good examples. Oh, but the news didn't tell you to get upset about it yet, so you have no opinion? That's why these opinions on Ukraine are so unprincipled.

4) The Turks depopulated Ukraine via the slave trade. Russia conquered the land, pushed the Turks back, and colonized E Ukraine for themselves. 18th century stuff. What I want to know is why the wokester position (the official Western "Good Guy" position, otherwise known the Party Line Winston) finds the USA's existence an affront to Native Americans and Mexicans, Israel's existence an affront to Palestinians, but cares not one whit for Poland occupying half of historic Germany, Turkey's ongoing genocide of Armenians (They back Azerbaijan, and Turkey is also a NATO power), and Greeks (threatening to invade... read proper journalists and you'll know)?

5) The West did the same thing to Serbia. The West in fact helped with the Muslim genocide of Serbians. Kosovo is the origin of Serbian culture and the Muslims overran it in the last 400 years. If you weep for the Native Americans and Tibetans, then you should care about what happened in Serbia too. Worse, the precedent is the one that the Russians used as the pretext to invade Ukraine.

6) Crimea was given to Ukraine in the 1950s by Khrushchev. It was Tatar and then it was Russian. HOW IS THAT SACRED? The same international law the US breaks constantly?

7) Remember that post-Cold War Magnanimity by Gorby? Know how people keep saying 'uh oh, if Putin loses, he'll nuke us all?' Do you really think that political shift came from nowhere? The west has been attacking Russia ever since the Cold War ended. If western idiots (sadly, most of us) haven't recognized (or are too ignorant to even know about because you don't read) the damage, that's only because you do the same thing the Russians do: slavishly listen to leaders without actually questioning the fact-stack. The US broke the promise not to move NATO eastward. That was the original sin. That was not nothing. That was as aggressive as attacking Ukraine. The demographic decline of Russia is not war damage? The economic damage of allowing China into the WTO and not Russia (when they were trying to be good) is not war damage? The use of western financial institutions to pillage Russia and financialize and control its mineral assets, while at the same time encouraging the de-industrializing of Russia is not war damage?

8) The Russians stopped the Cold War, but the US and the West did not.

9) Now they are mobilizing. They can't do it like we do: the US uses war to pillage its own people. The Russians are mobilizing the only way they can: the old fashioned way. The Russians are pushing back the only way they can: the old fashioned way.

10) Everywhere I go, supposedly intelligent people act like citizens of Oceana who can't seem to remember what happened the prior news cycle and remember only what the Wokeing class demands. Everything else goes in the memory hole.

11) THE WEST IS JUST AS BAD! CYBERPUNK IS JUST AS SH!T AS FALLOUT!

12) I didn't want any of this. The time to have stopped this was in the 1990s when the Western Trojan horse known as Chubais was busy annihilating the Russian economy. We nurtured China because their slaves were going to make our masters more profits and turn the majority of Americans from a free people with trades into a poor, welfare dependent people from the noblesse oblige of our 'elites' who shipped our manufacturing overseas... Russia has resources, China has slaves. Russia didn't play along when we tried financializing their economy and pulling it into our orbit. So now it's war.

13) To all you stubborn ignorant dummies: Good job. You have caused global starvation, European economic collapse, the annihilation of Ukraine, and it all benefits... you?

14) Hacker News is filled with beneficiaries of US policies. You can rely on a man to not understand something when his paycheck is dependent on him not understanding.

15) Keep on downvoting. The truth is a virus and I hope it destroys your brains.

def_true_false2• 4 years ago

AMerIcA bAd, ANti-amEricA goOD !1!1!!

Non-existent moderation and both side-ism is killing HN. Now the median post is barely better than reddit, but with lots of DK and idiotic contrarian garbage up top. @dang what's it gonna take for you to do start deleting this crap? A nuke?

ajl6662• 4 years ago

That's not a rebuttal dummy.

Do you want the legitimacy debate confers your position? Then debate.

None of my points are any one else's talking points. That's a sign of a non-dogmatic thinker, dummy.

nebula8804• 4 years ago

Just to nitpick but this quote:

"What I want to know is why the wokester position (the official Western "Good Guy" position, otherwise known the Party Line Winston) finds the USA's existence an affront to Native Americans and Mexicans, Israel's existence an affront to Palestinians"

Is not entirely true in the US. The majority of the political class supports Israel and looks the other way to what is happening to Palestinians. In fact right now multiple states have introduces anti-BDS laws (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) to help stop any attempt to curtail Israeli expansion via peaceful means.The Native American population also isn't doing great either which goes against your narrative.

theironhammer9• 4 years ago

Excellent post. Thank-you for this.

And to anyone who thinks taking the Russian point of view means you are Russian shill please view some John Meersheimer on YouTube. He also references prominent and respected IR American scholars who criticize American policy towards post Soviet Russia. It's been a disastrous mess. And now we face possible nuclear war because of arrogance.

alkonaut7• 4 years ago

Defending the invasion is being a Russian shill.

Arguing that policies have been poor isn’t.

It’s possible that this war could have been avoided through different policies, but this is an unprovoked invasion. Arguing it somehow has any responsibility outside Russia is like arguing rape victims should have dressed more appropriately.

mnsc2• 4 years ago

One big difference with living in the west is that I can read your post, and the GP. I can "take in the truth" and I can (and do) go further and read other, more credible sources and come to the conclusion that the worlds history is not black and white. The US is certainly not an innocent player. And then I can read Putin's own words and I can read Dugin and come to the conclusion that Russia is 100% at fault for the current situation in Ukraine. I might be wrong in this judgement, but at least I won't go to jail for expressing it.

JoeAltmaier• 4 years ago

Confused. post-WW2 borders are not sacred, but 400yo events are...the history of something is more important than the current reality...an independent self-governing Ukraine means less than 'who gave it to whom'. This is mostly political doublespeak rationalization.

Reality: in this day and age it's not OK to begin bombing your neighbors for any reason. Never mind blamethrowing, equating old treaties to bombing, and appeals to good ol-fashion murder.

ghostwriter• 4 years ago

Reality: in this day and age it's not OK to begin bombing your neighbors for any reason.

1) you didn't say "bombing anyone for any reason", does it imply it's ok to bomb distant countries for some reason?

2) if (1) is yes, then:

2.1) what is the appropriate distance to a country to count it as distant?

2.2) what are the appropriate reasons and is this list of reasons exhaustive?

3) where has "this day and age" begun and why on that moment specifically?

calmdownpeople• 4 years ago

Are post WW2 borders sacred? Is Crimea, transferred by Soviet Russia to the Ukraine in 1954, sacred? It's called international law. Yes it should be sacred. Nothing you say justifies by any means Putin's aggression and war crimes. Putin is a thug. He is a mob boss. Ukraine will join the EU. Ukraine will join NATA. Ukraine's economy and culture will flourish while Russia will be a pariah until Putin dies of old age and a respectable and honourable leader takes his place.

alkonaut7• 4 years ago

Are post WW2 borders sacred?

You can stop reading here

They aren’t. But the only international law that matters says you don’t try to change borders by force. You don’t murder civilians or stage fake referendums to annex territories.

There is no “other perspective” worth nothing other than as an excercise in trying to predict the criminals next step.

Mikeb855• 4 years ago

All your points completely miss the fact that Ukrainians want to be free from Russia. They're not a pawn to be passed between powers, they're a free country.

kranke1555• 4 years ago

Is this even appropriate for HN? Is this related to tech somehow? Seems having this sort of post here, all it does is bring out Reddit level bad takes.

ROTMetro3• 4 years ago

Funny that in all criticism of Russia on HK, every opposing post has to include reference to Reddit. You are not going to manipulate people so easily. 'Oh man, come on guys, you're sharing positions with those simple minded Reddit posters'.

How about you just make an argument on it's merits, instead of injecting your own bad take?

kranke1555• 4 years ago

How about limiting this forum to what it’s supposed to cover?

diimdeep• 4 years ago

Can anyone clarify something that I have recently heard in interview (Russian language)[1]: that U.S. citizens believe that U.S. defeated Nazis and won WW2, and not USSR. Is this in your experience is mostly true or false ?

[1] https://youtu.be/Q0oRii7zV9A?t=1973

generj• 4 years ago

The broadly accepted view is that the USSR won their front of the war using American supplies and Russian blood. And that the western fronts would have been far worse except for the Eastern front bleeding Germany dry.

The US won against Japan essentially without help from the USSR.

theironhammer9• 4 years ago

I would agree and add that the American and British soldiers were "lions lead by donkeys" and if not for the might of the American industrial machine supplying materiél the superior trained and leas German forces would've at least prevailed much longer than they did.

frozencell• 4 years ago

Fun facts: - Wall Street partly funded the Russian communism revolution.

freeone3000• 4 years ago

This isn't taken as factually true but is part of the US narrative, so it feels true even to people who were told about WWII. After all, the Allied Powers were fighting Germany, so USSR contributions feel limited, even if their contributions exceeded Allied ones.

ZeroGravitas• 4 years ago

Yes I believe this is true reflection of Western opinion.

There was an article a while back that showed a much higher recognition of Soviet efforts and sacrifices in WW2 immedistely after the war ended but tapering away ever since.

Georgelemental• 4 years ago

Mobilization will hurt Putin politically in Russia. Much of his power and following is based on the belief that he is the only one who can provide stability for Russians—"Putin, the one who put an end to the chaos of the Gorbachev and Yeltsin years." But not mobilizing means losing the war, which he would not survive. So, a bitter pill but one he must swallow

stunt• 4 years ago

People on both sides of this debate are exploited by the war propaganda that both sides push.

It doesn't matter which side you stand on today, if you think the solution to this problem is war instead of negotiation and peace, you are being abused by everything you read and hear.

nickpp• 4 years ago

If Russia would stop fighting, there would be no war. If Ukraine would stop fighting, there would be no Ukraine.

theironhammer9• 4 years ago

Agreed but you have to negotiate for peace from a position of strength.

Address by the President of the Russian Federation

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