French mayor demands €15,000 fee to climb Mont Blanc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62436466

by LinuxBender • 4 years ago

39 56 4 years ago

bbc.co.uk

himinlomax• 4 years ago

Not a fee as mentioned in the article's title, a refundable deposit as explained in the article.

mytailorisrich4• 4 years ago

Yes, very poor on the BBC's part.

Edit: OK, they have now corrected the title.

chaostheory• 4 years ago

It would still be reasonable if they kept the fee. Even if nothing terrible happened, someone has to clean up the mess or it could end up like Everest. Right?

zimpenfish2• 4 years ago

Whilst the article does say it is a deposit (as do many other stories[1][2]), I haven't seen any clarify that it will actually be refundable on safe return - it could well be that he means a deposit in the sense of "paying into a fund" rather than "a refundable deposit" which would essentially be a fee...

[1] https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/want-to-get-to-mont... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/french-mayor-m...

mytailorisrich4• 4 years ago

"Paying a deposit" is rather clear and implies it is refundable (otherwise it's not a deposit but indeed a fee).

Now, in French the word used is 'caution' [1], which means 'security deposit' (like a renter would pay their landlord, for instance) and makes it beyond doubt that it is refundable.

[1] https://mairie.saintgervais.com/triste-ete-2022-acces-au-mon...

Ekaros2• 4 years ago

Sounds entirely reasonable. If you are doing something dangerous you should be ready to carry the costs of failures.

SOTGO• 4 years ago

Honestly a refundable deposit sounds like a reasonable option. Although I do wonder if it makes more sense to have some sort of permitting process if there are too many underprepared climbers.

lbriner• 4 years ago

Or a small insurance shop at the bottom selling you cover. "Flip-flops? Your premium will be E15000 thanks"

dbetteridge• 4 years ago

Why not just require an appropriate level of travel insurance OR a deposit?

If the problem is recovery + funeral expenses

mytailorisrich4• 4 years ago

I think the Mayor also wants to limit the number of climbers. A 10-20euros private insurance would not be an effective deterrent, but having to put down 15k certainly is.

ozim3• 4 years ago

I don't think there is 10-20euros travel insurance one can buy that does not exclude mountain climbing or any activity that requires specialistic gear.

LorenPechtel2• 4 years ago

Insurance at that price level doesn't cover something like Mont Blanc.

ozim3• 4 years ago

There is no insurance company that will insure you on doing that. Unless I don't know something - for which I would be glad to hear back that I am wrong.

Any travel insurance I have seen always excluded all kinds of sports which is also mountain climbing. They exclude everything that requires specialistic gear.

I also work in insurance industry as a software dev - nothing that I have seen would let insure someone who would go under-prepared. One could fill in form that he goes fully prepared but once lied insurance company won't pay anything.

Basically they will sell you insurance if you are fully prepared and basically you don't have any chance of claiming insurance.

adammarples2• 4 years ago

Eh? Winter sports cover is a normal travel insurance add on.

meheleventyone• 4 years ago

There is no insurance company that will insure you on doing that. Unless I don't know something - for which I would be glad to hear back that I am wrong.

There's loads of specific insurance for these sorts of activities. You won't find it covered by most regular providers but there are oodles of companies out there that cover most extreme sports activities.

A quick google found this for example: https://www.snowcard.co.uk/mountaineering-insurance

But if you're the sort of person to go up a serious mountain in flip-flops you're probably not thinking about insurance anyway!

rpmw• 4 years ago

Global Rescue comes to mind, I used to have a $100k evacuation policy with them thanks to some of my Mountaineering club affiliations.

krisoft• 4 years ago

There is no insurance company that will insure you on doing that. Unless I don't know something

You can find an insurer for everything. You disclose to them what you want to do and they set a price. It is up to you then to figure out if it's worth paying for it or not.

captainkrtek• 4 years ago

There are a number of rescue and related insurance options for climbers, either through affiliation with professional organizations (eg: AMGA) or privately as a perk of clubs/public organizations (American Alpine Club membership tier that includes rescue and insurance packages). These are meant to cover the costs of being helicoptered off the side of a mountain and some associated medical bills.

octagonal• 4 years ago

Not true at all. I've done work for insurance companies in the past as well. While it's true most of them will not diverge from their standard contracts, some are very open to clients suggesting 'custom' insurance no matter how obscure the clauses. The only caveat of course being that it will cost you substantial amounts.

I also work in insurance industry as a software dev - nothing that I have seen would let insure someone who would go under-prepared. One could fill in form that he goes fully prepared but once lied insurance company won't pay anything.

If you break the terms of the contracts you won't get covered of course. Same as with car insurance where you won't get coverage if you were DUI.

Markoff• 4 years ago

Why not just require mandatory insurance covering this? It would cost much less.

Ekaros2• 4 years ago

I wonder what is the rate of incidents here. So how high such premium would actually be.

kennend32• 4 years ago

I wish this was adopted more. Far too often we see cases of adventurers taking unnecessary risks, only to have taxpayers bail them out.

This is unfair on many fronts, but the biggest one is those incurring rescue costs often don't contribute to the local tax base in the first place.

People should be able to take an adventure if they want, but they should accept the financial risks associated with this.

A deposit system is 100% fair to everyone involved.

belter• 4 years ago

Sounds reasonable, and was probably triggered by events like these. It seems in some years, they had almost 100 deaths a year.

"Mont Blanc deaths spark calls to end ‘free-for-all’"(2014): https://www.thelocal.fr/20140717/mont-blanc-climbing-alps-da...

"...With figures quoting up to 100 deaths each year in the entire Mont Blanc range, some consider it one of the most dangerous mountains in the world. But it's a reality that many see as entirely avoidable...

...It’s on the same list that includes going to Mont Saint Michel and getting a tan on one of France’s beaches and the whole thing reminds one of a large amusement park that goes by the name of Disneyland,” Jean-Marc Peillex, mayor of the town of Saint-Gervais which sits at the foot of the mountain, told The Local. “Mont Blanc is sold like it’s a simple trek, but in reality it’s a high-altitude act of mountaineering...”"

"French rescuers refuse to airlift Mont Blanc climber" (2014): https://www.thelocal.fr/20140709/mont-blanc-rescue-climber-a...

"Fed up French officials refused to airlift a Polish climber off the slopes of Mont Blanc, when he called for help after deciding he didn't want to walk down. The local French mayor blasted 'ad hoc' alpinists for being like 'urban consumers'."

AlexandrB• 4 years ago

"The French approach to risk is very different than the Anglo-Saxon attitude. They're attitude is 'go on, do what you want to do. But don't come running to us if you get in trouble,'" he said, noting Anglos are surprised by that because they assume they'd be barred from the climb if it was dangerous.

I notice this too. North America has a "presumption of safety" that leads to some weird behaviour.

cryptonym• 4 years ago

This is not about rescue costs or solidarity. An insurance for this is quite cheap. This is about having fewer people up there and maybe more tax money locally.

It's a trend among French mayors since tourists are back after 2yrs of covid. They want to get rid of the crowd while still benefiting from high-income tourism.

In the end this is allowing only rich people to enjoy mountain / wild-life.

turndown• 4 years ago

Your boring theories only betray the fact you didn’t read the article at all.

kennend32• 4 years ago

Would it be fair to assume you did not read the article at all?

jbirer• 4 years ago

Pretty good idea, actually. He should also name it "Darwin Tax" maybe.

curiousgal3• 4 years ago

It sounds reasonable for non residents. But as someone paying taxes in France I would be royally pissed if this applied to me.

roelschroeven• 4 years ago

Why is that? Are people who live in France somehow less likely to get in trouble while climbing mountains?

curiousgal3• 4 years ago

No but we pay a lot of taxes, which should cover this.

rossdavidh2• 4 years ago

Technically not a "fee", it's a deposit that, if you are the sort of person with the sort of equipment who has any business climbing the mountain in the first place, you will get back.

LorenPechtel2• 4 years ago

Unless you are unlucky and get taken out by an avalanche. At that point you won't care, though.

I see it as a big wake-up call that this isn't a walk in the park. I hike, nothing hazardous but even then I see plenty of unprepared idiots.

rossdavidh2• 4 years ago

Both valid points. On your first point, it is relevant that (in the US anyway) $5000 is not an unusual price for a funeral. But yes, I suppose you are unlikely to care about it in either case.

NoblePublius• 4 years ago

The headline is false. It’s a refundable deposit to cover potential rescue costs.

dathinab• 4 years ago

_deposit_ not fee, title is click bite

Basically due to climate change (and especially the current heat wave) it got very dangerous to climb the mountain and they don't want tax payers to repeatedly have to pay for rescue and burial costs of climbers. So there is a deposit now.

michael1999• 4 years ago

What kind of lunatic pushes an ice ascent in high-summer? I'd want a deposit up front too.

meepmorp• 4 years ago

The article title is actually:

"French mayor threatens €15,000 deposit to climb Mont Blanc"

Not really the same thing.

jfk13• 4 years ago

The title has been updated since the article was originally posted.

weddpros• 4 years ago

"He said the number of rescues and deaths in the Mont Blanc massif had not risen this year" (last paragraph): it almost reads like the journalist and the mayor lament that those numbers didn't go up, nullifying their whole argument. Or did I miss something?

peterbraden• 4 years ago

If they can't manage to get people to be well equipped before tackling the peak, what are the chances they are going to be able to enforce a permitting system?

Honestly, as someone that has climbed Mont Blanc twice, what is necessary is not more red tape, but to actually enforce the current equipment rules at the Gouter. And based on the importance that mountaineering brings to the area, it wouldn't hurt to go and knock down the loose rock in the Gouter couloir.

French mayor demands €15,000 fee to climb Mont Blanc

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