Why Android Will Soon Kick Ass

http://gizmodo.com/5056476/why-android-will-soon-kick-ass

by qhoxie • 18 years ago

30 31 18 years ago

seiji• 18 years ago

"Google has their eyes on the long haul with Android. Which is why reactions to a somewhat scattered UI in the very first implementation is not something they're worried about too much."

It's too important for them to worry about the details of it?

iigs• 18 years ago

Now, I enjoy an Apple hardware brainfuck as much as the next, but a phone is never a better phone because of hardware alone, and Google knows this too.

Not sure about this... I think in large part the problem with Windows Mobile phones is the driver quality/integration -- a problem that you can't separate from the hardware too far.

No one else makes a legitimate phone OS with all this support that can be tweaked down to the very roots. For one thing, I'm excited to be able to download an entirely different version of all of Android’s core applications if I don't like the default 1.0 versions—and that’s every app, everything from the dialer to the contacts manager—something that's technically possible in WinMo but often comes off more as an awkward re-skinning and not a top-down integration.

I know the good folks at Google have given this a lot of hard thought, but the fit and finish of those applications is critical to the reliability of the phone as a phone. Software that hook into those interfaces poorly or without good reason risks a lot of reliability for dubious gain. Anyone who used Mac OS pre-X or PalmOS with a lot of extensions knows exactly what I'm talking about.

That said, I'm more and more pumped about it as time goes on. The openness can't hurt, even if Apple isn't on board (and likely won't be for years if ever).

jwilliams• 18 years ago

Not sure about this... I think in large part the problem with Windows Mobile phones is the driver quality/integration -- a problem that you can't separate from the hardware too far.

Yup - The problem with a phone is that yes, the software is important - but people still see it as all hardware and expect it all to just work like hardware.

So people see it as a device, but it's increasingly a platform. Apple's model will certainly be more successful in treading this line - but remains to be seen if that's the determining factor or not.

nuclear_eclipse2• 18 years ago

> It's not about pretty icons, Apple fanboys, and its not about business use, Windows Mobile Nerds: its about giving people the true tools to build whatever they want without lame App Store limitations and _OS handcuffs_.

Tell my why developers can only use Java applets then that can only access certain API functionality that Google (or the carrier) wants to limit them too? Why can't I program for Android using Python, or C, and why can't I connect to the phone from another machine over SSH to transfer files, or compile applications, or tunnel an X11 session? What was that you said about "no OS handcuffs" again?

> No one else makes a legitimate phone OS with all this support that can be tweaked down to the very roots. For one thing, I'm excited to be able to download an entirely different version of all of Android’s core applications if I don't like the default 1.0 versions—and that’s every app, everything from the dialer to the contacts manager

Openmoko has been making this possible (and infinitely more open) for far longer than Google was even planning Android...

davidw3• 18 years ago

We'll have the source code next month, and at that point, your hacking abilities will be the only limit.

OpenMoko is interesting, but realistically, Google has way more muscle and stands a better chance of spreading Android far and wide.

nuclear_eclipse2• 18 years ago

Just because you have the source code to Android doesn't mean you have a fully-open phone or operating system. Your Android apps are still limited to their Java sandbox, and you still don't necessarily have any sort of access to tinker with the OS installed on your phone, let alone re-flash it at will like I can with my Neo.

If I screw something up, or if I one day decide I want to run Debian Linux instead of Angstrom/Openmoko, I'm free to reflash my phone's bootloader, kernel, and rootfs, or specially format its Micro SD card and boot from that instead. With Android, you don't yet have any of that freedom, and if the American cellular companies have anything to say about, you never will.

However, I will grant you the fact that Google has a gigantically higher chance of changing the face of mobile communications with Android than Openmoko, but I'd still rather have my Neo any day.

omouse2• 18 years ago

>Why can't I program for Android using Python, or C,

Because those are pain in the ass languages for embedded devices. Do you really want to manage your own memory in C or deal with the slowness of Python on a mobile device??

orib3• 18 years ago

What if the answer was yes?

There are some things C or C++ are just better at, like operating in a low-memory environment when you want to squeeze as much as possible out of the system. Sure, GC is nice and all, but for things to work well with a modern copying generational GC, you need 2 or 3 times the amount of RAM as an equivalent manually managed tool, because collection is lazy and you don't want to run it on every allocation -- that would be too expensive. So garbage sticks around for a little while.

Alternatively, some people like writing in high-level compiled languages (most of which are faster than Java) like OCaml or Haskell, both of which are suitable for a device that would also be running Java.

opal2• 18 years ago

YES.

icey• 18 years ago

The problem I have with Openmoko comparisons is that nobody seems to actually use one as their regular phone yet. I get that it's cool, but it sounds kind of like something you play with as hobby; not something you put in your pocket in case there's an emergency.

RobGR• 18 years ago

I know two people who use an OpenMoko as their "daily driver" phone. Admittedly, those two people are hardcore linux geeks from the local LUG, and even they admit that they are putting up with some annoyances that many people would not deal with.

Nevertheless, I can remember thinking "what kind of massive nerd, with way more money than sense, would have a unix server at his fucking HOUSE" back in 1995. I now have a platoon of linux machines in my house. And, openness does generally win in the end, even beating security, useability, and aesthetics.

I am going to hold on to my current phone until I can justify the cost of an OpenMoko.

Now, if you want to make a game tied into the next blockbuster movie and plan to sell a million copies next month and none afterwards, you probably should not invest in the OpenMoko. But if you are thinking in longer terms, I think it is the way to go.

Consider this proposition: you are talking to a courier delivery service (think FedEx or UPS but a smaller regional company). They want to replace the handheld package scanner / data entry thing their delivery drivers use, the current ones cost them $500 per device plus the integration and central servers. They want to invest in something that allows their drivers to fetch more information, such as traffic information and the dispatch messages they currently get by phone or radio, and have it integrated into the hand held computer.

You can't offer to save them a lot of money by writing an iphone app, iphone apps don't have access to the SMS messages among other things.

I'm not sure if you can do it in Android, I'm going to guess yes though. I looked through the SDK reference briefly, and the fact that you had to write in Java was not good, and I wasn't sure how to get access to the SMS functions or call log or stuff like that.

But I know you can do it on an OpenMoko, because you have access to everything. I don't need to learn an SDK, the same APIs I use to program on linux are there. And if the project is big enough to justify a special production run of an OpenMoko with some kind of proprietary RF added and a bar code scanner, the OpenMoko's hardware is open too.

Now, presume that I don't have the deal above in hand, but I am thinking there is a 10 percent chance I can get it in the next 2 years. If my cell phone breaks, am I going to buy an iPhone or an Android ? No, I'm going to make a long term investment and get an OpenMoko.

river_styx2• 18 years ago

The problem with this argument, and the problem with every argument for android I've seen, is that many of the things that set it apart from iPhone are geared for developers. I don't have the actual numbers, but I'm pretty sure that developers make up a relatively small fraction of the overall mobile phone market. I mean seriously, do you think that all of these teenage girls and trendy urban types will really give a shit if a phone is built around an "open" platform?

These things look cool to us because we're the target market. No one else will care.

davidw3• 18 years ago

There's a reason Steve Ballmer screamed "developers! developers! developers!", and it's not that he forgot to take his medications. Developers are the people who create stuff that makes a platform attractive.

scott_s3• 18 years ago

This is a particularly important point when Apple is denying apps that compete with theirs, but have functionality they don't. (Podcaster, or whatever the name of the app that let people download podcasts directly to their iPhone.)

What Ballmer recognized was that if you have an environment that's friendly to developers, eventually you will have things regular users want. I'm surprised Apple doesn't seem to understand this.

briancooley• 18 years ago

They won't care if it's open, but they might care if the openness facilitates some really useful or innovative apps.

It's interesting to me that Apple seems to be letting useless apps proliferate in the App store, yet is denying some apps that could really have value. If that is indeed the case, they are keeping one of the worst (from a consumer POV) aspects of openness and throwing away one of the best.

river_styx2• 18 years ago

Right, but as a developer, I would go for the platform with large market/easy distribution built in rather than openness any day. Android may be a cool platform, but if no one is using it in the first place, why bother?

Apple knows how to market technology to regular people. So far, android only seems to be aimed at the tech crowd.

unalone• 18 years ago

I think Android has a chance, but... not because of this. You can't base the success of an OS based on another OS not having good developer tools. Apple can release the restrictions on developing whenever they want to, and they WILL if they ever think that Android might gain more developers than their group.

And, not to belittle Google, but the iPhone apps are NOT something to laugh at. Many of them are insanely good, and it's incredibly easy to get them.

shimi• 18 years ago

Android found a great balance between a virtual environment and a good API. It pretty much covers everything a developer needs.

What's more the SDK is also great, I tried to run the latest S60 SDK (Nokia) and after 2 weeks gave up, MS is great but its not for free. With Android it's free and straight forward.

Why Android Will Soon Kick Ass

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