Life after Guantanamo: 'We are still in jail'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61609417

by prashantsengar • 4 years ago

73 103 4 years ago

bbc.com

danuker• 4 years ago

As long as there is no accountability for people locking others up for decades without evidence, it will continue.

LatteLazy• 4 years ago

How do you hold the United States of America accountable?

Retric• 4 years ago

People acted not the entire USA, and we could hold the people involved accountable by sending them to prison. Up to and including Presidents.

Not that we will, but it’s theoretically possible to do all sorts of things that won’t actually happen.

mbg7213• 4 years ago

In the most American way possible, by shaking our fists, mumbling about bureaucrats, and settling for a fraction of a cent per taxpayer.

4bpp• 4 years ago

If you are a citizen of another country, at least, vote against politicians that want to strengthen your country's alliance with it, and respond to polls in ways that indicate opposition to causes it cares about.

The US is dependent on its network of allies in many respects; most pertinently, much of the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns would not have been possible without the support of its European and the Middle Eastern ones, providing overflight permissions, military bases, intelligence and often even hosting "black sites" where people from the target nations could be tortured far from the meddlesome eyes of journalists and NGOs.

pvaldes• 4 years ago

You only need to be accountable the responsible of this, not the entire country. This is the word of a very reduced group of people.

USA tribunals should be capable to pursue violations of human rights inside USA territory.

sockopen• 4 years ago

This was done by a few people, who bleed like you and I do. Not by a country, solution is much easier.

refurb• 4 years ago

How do you hold the UK accountable? Australia accountable? Switzerland?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_detention

elric2• 4 years ago

There is a certain court in The Hague that tends to have an opinion on such matters. But the US seems to think they shouldn't be held accountable when it comes to international law or human rights.. ("The Hague Invasion Act").

mbg7213• 4 years ago

If it has to get to the Hague, there were drastic failures earlier. The US has a right to a speedy and public trial, and needs to put its money where its mouth is (or was).

tablespoon4• 4 years ago

There is a certain court in The Hague that tends to have an opinion on such matters. But the US seems to think they shouldn't be held accountable when it comes to international law or human rights.. ("The Hague Invasion Act").

International law isn't really law in the sense we're used to. There is no world government. International relations are anarchic, and the "international law" that's binding on a country is pretty much what it agrees to abide by or can be forcibly compelled to abide by (through military action, etc).

MomoXenosaga• 4 years ago

Funny thing is that Obama asked the Netherlands to take some ex Gitmo prisoners. The Dutch government politely declined to fix his problems knowing full well the legal minefield.

dustinmoris• 4 years ago

As long as we can fabricate flimsy evidence that China treats Muslims badly in China then we can happily ignore the hard evidence that America is violating every single human right in America and across the world, because white woke people love pointing fingers at other nations with a superiority complex instead of looking at themselves.

tartoran• 4 years ago

Flimsy evidence? It’s quite clear to me China is abusing their Uighur population, there’s plenty of videos with direct evidence floating on youtube.

What is hard for me to digest is why for some people, things need to be black and white, one is the bad guy and the other needs to be the good guy.

corsac• 4 years ago

First, there is abundant and solid evidence of Chinese violent oppression against Uigurs. Second, why do people (you) assert that awareness of human rights abuses in one country blinds people to abuses in another country? On the contrary, the more intolerable I find China's imprisonment of Uigurs and others, the more intolerable I find America's awful, useless wars and huge prison population. I don't get where you're coming from.

vxNsr10• 4 years ago

I find it so odd that every single gitmo detainee was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. There were thousands of people who got detained in Iraq and Afghanistan, but only a select few got brought to gitmo.

I’m more inclined to believe that the people of the US military bureaucracy were acting in good faith, and had a legitimate reason to believe these people were working for the enemy vs hearing the same story you hear from 100% of unrepentant convicted felons. “I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, they have the wrong guy”

I’d also like to remind people who don’t believe the people of US bureaucracy were acting in good faith that it’s these same people who will be working in whatever new giant gov service you want created. Might want to consider that next time you argue for government mandated/required/etc anything. If you don’t trust them to do the right thing in this case, why do you think it’ll be different in your case?

mc32• 4 years ago

In all likelihood those guys are actual bad-guys and did what we think they did and more. The problem is we ought to follow certain principles when we incarcerate people. Provide evidence, prove it in court and allow the defendant to defend themselves against accusations. Otherwise we're in kangaroo-courts/Soviet show trial-land.

vxNsr10• 4 years ago

There likely was a trial, or something like it, but until we can ensure the safety and protection of the people who helped us convict these people it’s been deemed more prudent to keep it secret.

yodsanklai• 4 years ago

I’m more inclined to believe that the people of the US military bureaucracy were acting in good faith

"Acting in good faith" isn't an excuse to torture people.

vxNsr10• 4 years ago

I generally agree with that statement.

Broken_Hippo• 4 years ago

....hearing the same story you hear from 100% of unrepentant convicted felons.

I wouldn't put too much into dismissing such things. Have you seen the how the US locks folks up using fake "science", and then refusing to reverse the charges when evidence proves them innocent? Sure, not everyone is innocent, but enough folks are wrongfully convicted, it seems, that anyone saying this might just be telling the truth. We (Americans) should be more prudent when locking people up.

Considering this, yeah, I think the US has locked up innocent folks for years on end without trial. Sure, some are guilty, but probably not guilty enough for a decade or so of actual torture.

vxNsr10• 4 years ago

The line is the mantra of criminals since time immemorial. It’s not a US invention.

But, I would invite you to spend some time in any US court house where criminal proceedings are being held. You will find that 99.999% of convicts are very guilty (with proof anyone in the room can verify and would agree is proof beyond a shadow of a doubt) of the crimes they’ve committed. While I agree that .001% is still too high a percentage when talking about convicting innocents. It’s truly the height of hyperbole to claim there’s a chance it might be true for anyone who says it.

prmoustache• 4 years ago

Them having a legitimate reason to believe anything doesn't change the fact that the detainee should have been released with their passport of origin if no charge has been filed and/or they haven't been declared culprit.

vxNsr10• 4 years ago

If you’re the informant who provided the evidence against one of these guys at what point are you ok with the US publishing the court documents publicly so that his friends can come after you?

ZainRiz• 4 years ago

Remember the kid who was thrown into gitmo at age 14?

Volundr5• 4 years ago

I find it so odd that every single gitmo detainee was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Literally no one is claiming this. It's safe to assume some, probably even most are indeed guilty. That doesn't justify imprisoning them indefinitely, without trail. It definitely doesn't justify torture. It doesn't justify a black site in Guantanamo to skirt US and international law.

Beltalowda• 4 years ago

I’m more inclined to believe that the people of the US military bureaucracy were acting in good faith, and had a legitimate reason to believe these people were working for the enemy vs hearing the same story you hear from 100% of unrepentant convicted felons. “I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, they have the wrong guy”

They probably had a reason, sure. But you can be mistaken, or the information may not be correct.

Some people really are just "in the wrong place at the wrong time", including at least a chunk of former Guantanamo detainees. I don't know how many of them exactly because everything is secret and classified, which makes demonstrating your innocence really hard (how can you provide an alibi if you don't know what evidence was used?)

That this is also used by some guilty people is besides the point. Taking denial of having committed a crime as being "unrepentant" is a really dangerous thing to do because of course actual innocent people will claim their innocence.

Even with the best legal system with all sorts of legal protections that are biased strongly towards the prevention of convicting innocent people even if it means letting some guilty people go free, innocent people still end up in jail. When you remove those protections and add the fog of war that number shoots up quite fast.

aiProgMach2• 4 years ago

Do you know who was in the wrong place at the wrong time? It's the genocidal army of USA being thousands of Kms away from the US. If there is a criminal it's those children killers, and anyone who hide this fact. The US army and gov are in no place to punish even a legitimate criminals like the Al-Qaeda (their previous allies). In an ideal world the whole military of US would be dismantled and punished in Guantanamo (or any prison of your choice) for crimes against humanity.

Life after Guantanamo: 'We are still in jail'

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