Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/world/africa/libyan-fighters-say-qaddafi-stronghold-has-fallen.html?_r=1&hp

by frankiewarren • 15 years ago

95 87 15 years ago

Aloisius• 15 years ago

To quote Andrew Sullivan:

To rid the world of Osama bin Laden, Anwar al-Awlaki and Moammar Qaddafi within six months: if Obama were a Republican, he'd be on Mount Rushmore by now.

mhb2• 15 years ago

“It’s a great day,” Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, said on CNN on Thursday morning. “I think the administration deserves great credit. Obviously, I had different ideas on the tactical side, but the world is a better place.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/world/africa/qaddafis-deat...

derleth• 15 years ago

And that's why McCain is a RINO.

/sarcasm

brown9-22• 15 years ago

Somewhat ironic for McCain to say so: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/03/john-mccains-tw...

harold• 15 years ago

Perhaps that Nobel Peace Prize was a bit premature.

I would rather Qaddafi had been brought to trial and punished accordingly.

Shalanga• 15 years ago

I wonder if someone should me punished accordantly when launching someone's country an atomic bomb.

No punishment, just history...

Everything a bliss.

hvs2• 15 years ago

I would rather that he had been brought to trial, but I think he was punished accordingly.

tamersalama• 15 years ago

I would say a court marshal ending with a televised execution wouldn't been better. This man was evil. And he was crazy. A violent death, no matter how, is what he deserved.

zerostar072• 15 years ago

What shocks me most is that none of these (despicable) people lived to be taken to trial. Odd that the western world seems so comfortable with blood.

roboneal3• 15 years ago

Amazing the shift of perspective...

How many who voted for Obama (or at least against John McCain) would expect their vote would elect a President who would violate the sovereignty of Pakistan with a special forces operation, murder an American citizen without due process, and enter into armed conflict with Libya without the consultation of Congress and eventually assassinate a sitting head of state?

sp3325• 15 years ago

Which head of state did the US assassinate?

burgerbrain3• 15 years ago

I don't think it's known at this point that Qaddafi was assassinated by the US. The two more common things I'm hearing is that he was either shot by rebels or hit by a NATO air-strike, which is kind of ambiguous.

loumf• 15 years ago

Obama specifically said in the 2008 debates that he would go into Pakistan without permission to get Bin Laden

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/flashback-2008-mc...

rdtsc• 15 years ago

Those that knew what to look for saw this coming before even he ran for president.. As soon as he voted to give retroactive immunity to telecom companies spying on US citizens, it was clear what stuff he was made from.

I still very much admire his propaganda ability. His campaign was amazingly successful. Yes, Bush being Bush helped a lot, but still. The disconnect (even among the intellectual liberals who rabidly supported him) between the perception of who Obama is and who he really is, is amazing (even after all this time).

Nobody denies that it is easy to lead and brainwash ignorant masses with fears of 'terrorism', 'communism' & 'homosexuals' but one has to admire the ability to brainwash relatively liberal and intelligent people. Looking back at Obama I will mostly remember him winning the AdAge 'Marketing Campaign Of The Year' award.

http://adage.com/article/moy-2008/obama-wins-ad-age-s-market...

He put Apple, Zappos & Nike to shame.

And then him getting the Nobel Peace prize. That was just the cherry on top.

astine3• 15 years ago

The GOP might be singing his praises, but the Democratic Caucus would be screaming bloody murder about the lack of trials. It's all politics.

cpeterso• 15 years ago

> The GOP might be singing his praises.

Not likely.

huhtenberg5• 15 years ago

Do I see a pattern emerge -- sitting on a large oil reserve and not "cooperating" with right people is detrimental to one's well-being.

rytis• 15 years ago

Totally agree. I just wonder who's next on the list. Any bets?

nobody3141596• 15 years ago

The new democratic rulers of Libya / Arab extremists - depending on them signing the right contracts with the right oil companies

dredmorbius• 15 years ago

Canada, eh?

huhtenberg5• 15 years ago

Venezuela, probably, if Russia would let it happen.

ugh6• 15 years ago

Pattern? This civil war wouldn’t have been won by the revolutionaries without support from NATO but there still would have been a civil war. This civil war was not faked by NATO, it was very real – and all things considered the right side won.

nobody3141596• 15 years ago

If the people in some other Arabic countries did the same thing we would be bombing their ruler's palaces?

mladenkovacevic2• 15 years ago

Well I'm sure there's nothing but good times for Lybians from now on right? /s Sorry but my framework of reference just doesn't allow me to buy into this as a great thing for freedom and "democracy"

stfu• 15 years ago

Somewhat sad to see that they killed that guy.

Having him testify in Den Hague could have provided very interesting insights on how corrupt the so called "democratic" governments really are.

forcefsck• 15 years ago

"Democratic" governments with good deals for their oil companies and bad deals with their people.

hvs2• 15 years ago

He would've never been brought to the ICC. The NTC made it clear that they were planning on trying him in Libya if he was captured. And that would almost certainly have ended with an execution anyway.

zerostar072• 15 years ago

Bush, Blair, Berlusconi, Sarkozy etc. Pretty sure too many people like these would be shamed by this lunatic. Maybe it's best that he died, the world wants to keep its heroes.

aw3c2• 15 years ago

You might like the german satire magazine Titanic's recent image: http://www.titanic-magazin.de/postkarten.html?&card=1414...

"Grief about Gaddafi" "He lives on in the hearts of his friends"

civilian• 15 years ago

I guess it's okay that he's dead, but I'm concerned about the way he was killed. A bunch of soldiers ran into his house, stripped him, dragged him through the streets, and shot him at some point. That is some Trojan War shit.

I'm still not convinced that the Middle East is civilized... which is why I'm an isolationist.

I'm not very reassured by this quote from the transitional government spokesperson: “We were serious about giving him a fair trial. It seems God has some other wish."

mladenkovacevic2• 15 years ago

I believe that Libyans are by and large a civilized, reasonable people (just like Iranians, Iraqis etc) but if anyone in the West thinks that the rebel army is made up of regular, work-a-day Libyan lawyers, doctors, teachers and other civilians... then the media did a great job at spinning this one.

sp3325• 15 years ago

So who are they then? Are they supported by those people in the country?

csomar• 15 years ago

I have watched the Libyan and Tunisian revolutions. I can confirm that the Tunisian one was led by a particular part of the population (mainly the poor and forgotten). In the Libyan revolution, I saw all kind of people from different background, social and economical levels. Libyans are friendly, and generally quite generous and kind. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised that a good part of the rebel army is made of regular citizens.

Florin_Andrei• 15 years ago

I don't think he gave them any other option. Seriously, after all the bad stuff he did when he was in power, after drumming up war when things got tough - did anyone really expect any other outcome?

I'm pretty sure he was determined to fight to the bitter end. Which he did.

jcizzle3• 15 years ago

You have that backwards, it should be: "I'm an isolationist, which is why I think the Middle East is uncivilized."

Also, politicians pandering to various religious communities happens all the time in America. Let's not pretend it is different because the people are brown and the word "God" is pronounced differently.

Shame on you.

roboneal3• 15 years ago

My definition of "civilization" is a society "ruled by law" and something approaching a "democracy". I can't think of a country in the Middle East remotely qualifying -- maybe Israel.

Trying to equate "religious pandering" in the US to the various REAL theocracies and military juntas that inhabit the Mideast is "shame"ful.

potatolicious3• 15 years ago

> "I'm still not convinced that the Middle East is civilized... which is why I'm an isolationist."

If that kind of violence makes you doubt the civility of a people, you might want to add every other country in the world onto your list of "uncivilized places", and yes, including the USA.

> "My definition of "civilization" is a society "ruled by law" and something approaching a "democracy"."

The same "rule of law" that permits the USA to assassinate one of its own citizens without due process, only executive order? The same "rule of law" that permits it to covertly fund and equip rebel forces in democratic countries simply because their leadership dare oppose US national interests? (Chile is the most salient example of this, but far from the only one)

It seems your definition of "civilization" is less concerned with how much unjust blood is spilled, but rather how visible and public said blood is. This seems like a poor definition.

kabuks2• 15 years ago

Depends on your definition of civilized.

Having been born and raised in the middle east (Egypt), I can assure you that by many definitions of 'civilized' we fare really well compared to the US.

True, there isn't separation of religion and state, and that leads to much 'uncivilized' behavior, and a wacky sense of law.

On the other hands, we don't have nearly the same rates of murder, rape, theft that we have here in the States. And we don't put one out of every 300 people in prison.

Our elderly mostly die surrounded by family and friends in their homes, and very very very few people sleep on the streets.

Our health care system is much poorer, and much more primitive than the US system, but nobody gets turned away because of 'pre-existing' conditions or lack of funds.

In most of the Country, if you stop someone and ask for directions, they'll invite you to their home for a meal and be serious about it. Even though they make less than a .50 cents a day.

So yeah, maybe broaden your idea of what 'civilized' looks like and you won't need to isolate so much.

p.s. We cook a yummy Egyptian dinner once a month for friends, ping me and come over next Monday for civilized discourse over foul and falafel

jellicle• 15 years ago

Yeah, I had some questions about civilization in Egypt. Is Egypt assassinating thousands of people worldwide with anti-tank missiles fired from unmanned aircraft, on a daily basis?

Because if not, then yes I'd say you compare quite well to the U.S.

tkahn62• 15 years ago

I suspect if you were a Copt you'd have a much different perspective.

brown9-22• 15 years ago

What you described is pretty much how a standard armed revolution goes, not sure what it has to do with the "civility" of the region as a whole.

suivix• 15 years ago

So its ok for other people to link to this story but not me? Really arbitrary moderation here.

burgerbrain3• 15 years ago

The story and who was linking to it has nothing to do with it. Do a better job naming your links next time.

ttttrrrr2• 15 years ago

The mood here is very gloomy. Back when they kicked out Ben Ali and Mubarak there was celebration on HN. I guess you're not really a dictator unless you're an ally of the US, huh?

ugh6• 15 years ago

It’s easier to be more joyful and optimistic about peaceful (or at least more peaceful) revolutions.

ttttrrrr2• 15 years ago

I hope yours is the correct explanation. Nevertheless, I get the feeling that many Americans for some reason sympathize with anti-Americanist foreign leaders, even if their own people consider them ruthless dictators. (I'm not American, btw.)

astine3• 15 years ago

Ben Ali was not shot in the head by an armed mob. Mubarak wasn't killed either. There was a stable transition in either case.

The issue isn't that anyone sympathizes with Gadaffi, but that it calls into question the solidarity and stability of the rebel government. Until now, Libyans have been united by their hatred of Gadaffi but we haven't seen whether the government can pull Libya together in a post-Gadaffi nation or really what kind of government or society will emerge. This execution was an action by Libyans with guns against the express will of the nominal government (which wanted to try him first.) It's a bad omen.

jsherer• 15 years ago

This article seems to be a bit "mainstream" for HN, IMHO.

hugh3• 15 years ago

Indeed. Flaggity flag flag.

frankiewarren• 15 years ago

Sorry you felt that way, I enjoyed reading everyone's comments though. I just reread the submission guidelines and won't submit articles like this in the future. Still new around here.

"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."

kb101• 15 years ago

One interesting tech angle to this story and the other wars in the Middle East (Iraq and Afghanistan): the rise of remote-controlled warfare. http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/...

Comparing Iraq, a messy invasion that drug on for a decade and cost hundreds of billions, to Libya, a tactical exercise that lasted a few months and cost only a billion plus, might not be a fair comparison, but there is no question that remote reconnaissance, targeting, and attack capabilities have improved dramatically since 2001. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/secret-stealth-drone...

fuck_us_gaddafi2• 15 years ago

It proves that the fucking United States of America will do anything if they want. UN is just a drama.

fuck_us_gaddafi2• 15 years ago

American Government planted this assassination, Libyans are just the namesake.

Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

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