Ask HN: How do you give advice?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31135656

by pattyj • 4 years ago

38 27 4 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Could you share your stories and thoughts on what you do to make your advice easier to accept?

I'd like to know what contributes to making advice well-received by others.

twellferromin• 4 years ago

I can say what I wish people had done.

This is an issue that has been on my mind a lot lately, as a lack of it at a critical time in my life, from multiple people, had critical consequences.

There's two things I wish people had done. The first is to provide advice in good faith with the sincere aim of helping the person, wanting a good outcome and with the belief they can do well. Advice that comes from acting in bad faith, will be picked up on as such. Acting in good faith is important because if you're not, you're undermining the advice: in that scenario your advice is suspect because it's impossible to know what your aims are. If you can't act in good faith, someone else needs to be advising.

Related to this is that criticism alone is not advice. This is something that's emphasized in different ways in different places, but it's because it's important: don't just criticize, let them know that you'd like to see them doing or feeling better, and preferably, how to do that.

The second thing I wish people had done is to try to identify what I will call "unspoken factors" in the situation before offering advice. For instance, what sort of advice has this person already received? What advice haven't they received? Is there something about the situation the person finds themselves in that's important to understanding them? Should the advice really be directed at that person, or the people around them? If the person is going to you for help, what are they "saying in between the lines"? That is, they might say they're having trouble with or want A, B, and C, but it might be that the real problem is, or what they really want is X, Y, and Z. Talk with them about that. Relatedly, don't assume that what they're wrestling with is "just in their head": it might be, but they might really be facing something problematic.

toomuchtodo• 4 years ago

Scoped and with copious warnings that the distilled advice is derived from a larger body of experience and a dynamic mental model.

“Based on my experience, here are options, how one might weight them, pros and cons of each, and what led me to this conclusion. Use as input, but not solely and without proper contextualization.”

And giving bad advice is worse than giving no advice at all. Always avoid giving bad advice, or if it sounds bad because you can’t properly communicate the idea/thought. You do harm to others, as well as your own reputation, by doing so.

neoeno• 4 years ago

First, understand that you are trying to control them.

This might sound odd, but it's true. You're trying to change their behaviour because you'd prefer it another way. Maybe that's because you want to be a good person or it hurts you to see them fail, but ultimately you have selfish motives.

Secondly, realise that many people in their life have tried to control them before. They didn't all have pure motives. Many of them may have been wrong, in some ways significantly.

From these two thoughts — deduce that _it is absolutely critical that this person can defend against bad advice._ Without that skill, they will be totally lost. Gullible, open to confusion, even abuse. You are fighting their social immune system and you need to prove that you can be trusted. If you fail, accept that you have failed for a good reason.

Finally — and this is the most difficult part — frame your advice as a piece of information that will be believable and useful in the world of your listener rather than your own. How do you do this? Ask questions, seek to understand what they think, why they behave the way they do, their goals, their fears, who and what they respect. Once you've done this, reformulate your advice to fit the world you have discovered and try it out. This may include showing rather than telling. If it still doesn't work, try to understand what they heard and why it didn't add up to them.

If you can do all of this, people will follow your advice much of the time. The catch is that you might find yourself changing your own views just as often.

zeroxp2• 4 years ago

Advice is not an attempt to control someone, it's sharing your perspective, which may be incomplete, and trying to provide additional useful information for making a decision.

Persuasion on the other hand is certainly an attempt to influence someone's behavior.

Persuasion and advice are not the same thing.

webmobdev• 4 years ago

I came to post - don't be so invested in the advise you offer that you get upset when they don't follow it - but you explained it much better.

yesenadam• 4 years ago

ultimately you have selfish motives

Uh, I don't believe that. What if you just want to help them?! What you say sounds very close to psychological egoism, the ethical position "that all behaviors are motivated by self-interest," that "all motives are selfish motives".[0]

[0] quick read: https://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/ethics_tex...

lengthier read: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/egoism/#PsycEgoi

adventured• 4 years ago

I try to only give advice when asked, unless it's an unusual context and I'm certain I have a vast and specific experience advantage over the other person (and they appear to be in dire need of the advice in question; some people are afraid to ask for help, and sometimes people don't know they need it).

Narrow, specific, experience-backed advice is generally the best. I have found that most people will give you their opinion-as-advice, and it's most often worthless or worse (harmful). Only a very small fraction of people that will give you advice on a subject, are likely to have very relevant experience to offer you high quality actionable advice. Narrow, specific advice is good, general advice not nearly so much. General advice is better picked up on your own by living life, whereas narrow, specific advice can really jump you ahead in your thinking and learning curve (often you can plug it right into your puzzle, or at least see where the piece fits, and then grasp the broader picture better).

Advice that comes from a personal experience place will be drastically better received, along with the story that relates it, the story from which you learned the advice. It humanizes the advice, helps the other person relate, and makes it seem less pushy or judgmental (sometimes advice can rudely come across as telling the other person they're doing something wrong and should do it such and such way instead). By telling them your story, how you arrived at the conclusion you did, you demonstrate that you were in their shoes once.

sometimeshuman• 4 years ago

First, accept that people have different goals and predilections and you should begin by asking clarifying questions. But if you advise primarily from your perspective then you aren't advising you are just talking about yourself, which is ok, but make it clear that you know you are doing that and you understand that your POV may not apply to them.

Second understand that many years may pass before someone finally appreciates your advice and/or takes it. Don't give advice if you expect instant gratification and don't get discouraged that if it is immediately rejected since it might be accepted later.

a_techwriter_00• 4 years ago

Dress it up as coming from a source with more authority. This isn't merely your advice, this is the distilled wisdom of a philosopher from antiquity. Stoicism's trendy right now, so say it's a quote from Seneca or part of Marcus Aurelius's _Meditations_ and some people will buy in. If you want to future-proof this tactic, with the rising geopolitical tensions you're probably going to start hearing the name "Thucydides" bandied around.

Reduce the advice to something short and memorable. A rhyme, pun, or clever garden-path sentence are all good techniques - different people like different kinds of wordplay, so have a bunch of these at hand and know your audience.

Make sure the message is the same across time. People trust consistency on the one hand, and on the other people can become worn down by hearing the same advice for a decade and decide to adopt your thinking.

Charge a lot of money for your advice. People are more likely to accept advice they paid ten thousand dollars for over advice they paid nothing for.

ahsannajam• 4 years ago

I don't give advice. :-)

guiambros• 4 years ago

Advice is not given; it is received. The first step to consider is if the person is open for a conversation, and if the time is right. Learning doesn't happen when you want it; it happens when they are ready for it. Be thoughtful and respectful to the other person's state of mind, and approach it with empathy.

The second thing to consider is how to approach the topic. Unless you have a strong emotional bond with the person where you can be very direct (e.g., family member, close friend), or you are an authority in the field you're giving advice (e.g., teacher, senior colleague), what you're giving is not advice - it's just your opinion. Spewing up your opinions on why someone should change to conform to what you think is right is unlikely to stick, unless it helps the person to look at the matter from a different perspective.

One way of doing it is to approach things with curiosity, helping the person to question their beliefs, and asking powerful questions that helps the person to reflect and look from different angles. Growth comes from within, so it's not about you giving the idea or problem-solving it for them, but helping the person to find answers for themselves. Yes, it takes time, but you have a much higher chance of helping them grow than just vomiting unsolicited advice.

You can find tons of resources around coaching, and it applies in any situation where it involves growth and development, either in the work environment [1][2], at home, parenting kids, etc.

But hey, what do I know. This is all my opinion, not advice :)

[1] https://hbr.org/2019/11/the-leader-as-coach

[2] https://hbr.org/2018/08/most-managers-dont-know-how-to-coach...

devoutsalsa2• 4 years ago

Someone explained to me that communication is done by the receiver. If I say something and the person listening didn’t understand, that’s akin to mailing a letter to the wrong address.

ravenstine• 4 years ago

You charge money for it. Otherwise it will have no value whatsoever whilst you gave away a few minutes of your life.

devoutsalsa2• 4 years ago

By waiting until someone asks for it.

zeroxp2• 4 years ago

This is the only good answer I've seen in this thread. If you're thrusting advice on someone who isn't asking for it then you might as well go learn some sales because that's what you're doing.

thenerdhead• 4 years ago

You can't really just give people advice unless they ask for it. You can however ask people if it's okay to give them advice or how you can do that best.

Sometimes it is even useful to ask said person who might benefit from advice for advice. That opens the conversation to being receptive of each other's advice.

Lastly, you should probably question yourself regarding why your advice should be accepted in the first place. Majority of the time people will figure it out and your inaction of giving said advice is actually more helpful in the long run.

sunir• 4 years ago

I just had to write this up because we run roundtables and mentors at my conference SaaS Connect which is finally happening again next week after 3 years and I had forgotten.

First make sure you have permission to offer advice. But remember…

No one likes advice. You cannot really know what is going on in someone else’s world. It’s easy to get it wrong. And advice isn’t about controlling people despite what another person said; that would be very aggressive and really an intervention not advice giving.

Instead ground your responses in your own experiences. You can never be wrong about yourself.

Tell relevant stories from your own experience.

Share resources that may be relevant.

Work through your own mental models you might apply in this situation. That isn’t telling people your mental framework is correct though you may believe it deeply. It’s saying “I use this framework. This is how I’d apply it.”

This gives the listener what they are really after when asking for advice. Insight into how you think. It’s a mystery to them and pulling back the curtain is a wonder.

They will learn and take what they can from the experience.

type0• 4 years ago

Socratic method

auspex• 4 years ago

Don’t give advice unless someone asks… but since you did, first there are a lot of ways to give advice but here’s what works for me.

Frame it with “I can tell you what works for me, but everyone is different and there are a lot of ways to do things… <advice/>”

dabbledash• 4 years ago

>Could you share your stories and thoughts on what you do to make your advice easier to accept?

Wait until it is asked for.

totony• 4 years ago

Make them figure it out themselves. Advice is rarely acted upon, but nudging someone will make it "their idea."

human_person• 4 years ago

I think other commentators made some excellent points about ensuring the receiver is interested in the advice. And you should probably do that.

But in situations where I want to give unsolicited advice I either ask if they’d like some unsolicited advice and respect their response. Or I offer the advice as a story about myself instead of an instruction/order.

For example instead of telling a friend what they are saying is too aggressive I might talk about a time I said something that was a little aggressive and misunderstood and the problems it caused me. So they have the opportunity to learn from my experience without me forcing it on them.

stuntkite• 4 years ago

Unsolicited at 3am in drunk info dump texts

ss48• 4 years ago

Separate the advice someone asks of you from the experiences you can share with someone. When you want to give someone awareness of something they haven't asked from you because you think it's worth exposing them to it or sharing it with them, approach it from the point of conveying your experiences to them, not to advise them, but just to mention something of interest that you though might be of interest to them. Then the person you are sharing your experience with can decide if he or she should make anything of it. When someone asks you for advice, then you can inquire further to learn what they are looking to solve so that you can help them with working their way through that specific problem.

tomcam• 4 years ago

1. By not doing so unless asked. 2. When asked, I never say should. I present both sides as best I can, then explain why I’d make the preferred choice.

Leftium• 4 years ago

Ideally, the person you're giving advice to should come to the conclusion on their own. Your advice just nudges them in the right direction. Dale Carnegie gives a great example of how to do this[1].

Otherwise, the advice can come across as criticism/attack. When attacked, the natural response is to defend. No matter how right/wrong each party is. Usually advice is some form of "you're doing this wrong; you can do this better." So always start from a place of agreement: what are they doing right/well?

[1] https://www.inc.com/mithu-storoni/the-1-thing-good-bosses-ne...

Jugurtha• 4 years ago

Asking questions works wonders in understanding the problem, the job to be done, the incentives, the constraints, the parameters people are trying to tweak to optimize for something, the tradeoffs.

It is an iterative process. Then when you have an "advice", you can phrase it as a question of how would a new set of parameters be computed in their model and their impact on other aspects you may not be aware of. You could see the computation happening, and they'd say something like "Yeah, but it would negatively impact XYZ", which you'll take into account as a new constraint in the subsequent sets of parameters you submit for computation/simulation.

One effect of doing this is that a lot of people will ask for your advice because it works.

Ask HN: How do you give advice?

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