Warning signs in a non-technical cofounder (can you spot them?)

http://blog.hirelite.com/warning-signs-in-a-non-technical-cofounder-ca

by nathanh • 15 years ago

75 34 15 years ago

blog.hirelite.com

mikeryan• 15 years ago

This HN meme is getting a little tired.

arethuza• 15 years ago

I once had dealings with a chap who wanted me as a co-founder but I had worked out that he only had two modes of operating with people: "best friend" or "ongoing litigation".

Fortunately I said no.

its_so_on• 15 years ago

wrong move. you should have become his best friend, you'd be rich now.

pitdesi• 15 years ago

Is it actually true that there are founders of companies who haven't bought a domain name? I find that piece of this to be quite silly.

GoDaddy buys superbowl ads - buying a domain is very mainstream.

I have seen the "multiple startups in the works" thing though- that is definitely not a good sign.

Tangurena2• 15 years ago

I've come across this exact thing before (where the techie has to do it all - including spending $10 at godaddy). Always with folks who convince my family to get hold of me.

The cure has been to get the relative involved in the fiasco, where I'll do the work, but they have to be involved. By the time all the poop hits the fan, they finally got a hefty dose of what we have to go through.

In the most recent one-of-these, the serial entrepreneur brainwashed my sister into believing that his new idea does everything and will make us all millionaires. His previous adventures resulted in crashes (or paranoid delusions that the oil companies killed off his customers), and he whined about the folks who "left him stranded". He didn't own the domains of the previous adventures. He didn't own this domain (I made my sister set this one up, so it is hers). As this project got closer to something sellable, he got crazier and crazier and then decided to dilute my sister and my shares (1/3 each) to 1/20th each as he wanted to bring on "friends" he had shafted during previous misadventures. The sad thing is that my sister used to be a developer before getting trapped in a cult, so she should have known better. But now she does.

dasil003• 15 years ago

Trying to put 2 and 2 together here... this "serial entrepreneur" was a cult leader? Or was that unrelated?

j453• 15 years ago

Sorry to hear about this story. I hope she can learn the positive lessons from this to not take anyones dreams seriously unless they have a track record.

Since that eliminates nearly every story-dreamer, its best to take small steps in a traditional "pay me for my time until we agree that we can be partners".

Owning 10% of something is still owning 10% of nothing until it's making profit. Profit is a funny word, meaning once you've spent everything in your revenue. I don't hear of many people making money when they take shares in a company like this.

marketer• 15 years ago

Another one is not being good at marketing.

Marketing can be a huge grind. Being able to build buzz about your product, or get mentioned in the press, or find customers is very time-consuming and requires a lot of creativity.

nickpinkston• 15 years ago

You know you've got a shitty co-founder if they can't build a product or sell one. Real hustlers make it happen - "idea guys" need not apply.

bane• 15 years ago

I agree, there's nothing that can drain the life out of a company with limited resources than the infinite time suck of an idea fairy on the loose.

joshklein• 15 years ago

> Multiple startups in the works? No experience in your startup's domain/market? Poor interactions with other [non-technical] people? "Build it and they will come" mentality?

These happen to be wonderful warning signs for a technical co-founder, too.

SurfScore• 15 years ago

I think that this article was supposed to illustrate a multitude of problems that you could encounter, obviously if ALL of these happened with one person you'd run like the plague.

I think the biggest indicator, that isn't necessarily on the list, is if they have learned to code AT ALL. They don't need to be a master coder, even if the know some basic JavaScript and C, and they learned it for the startup, at least it shows they're willing to put in the effort, and are attempting to meet you on some level. I don't see how someone can start a company and be completely in the dark about how it's built.

nathanh• 15 years ago

One thing I've been wondering a lot about is anti-warning signs - things that turn technical cofounders off that aren't necessarily bad things.

The first thing that comes to mind is arrogance. It certainly puts me off, but it seems like you need a good dose of arrogance to think you can solve a daunting problem.

thejana• 15 years ago

As a nontechnical cofounder myself, I agree on all points. I've seen these kids at every tech meetup. Unfortunately, early on I've seen a few of these "qualities" in technical cofounders too.

This post reiterates a few keys points we all know. Don't hire or work with assholes (an entire book on it), and focus.

dfield• 15 years ago

Wow, I literally had this exact same conversation last week. (Minus the domain name / equity portion.)

Warning sign 0: they're asking you to be a technical co-founder before you know anything about the product.

ja27• 15 years ago

They want you to go full-time on it but they won't.

j453• 15 years ago

If they pay you full time could it be a bit different?

j453• 15 years ago

I generally run from non-software people wanting to be in the software business but not even want to learn or try to understand how software is built.

You might not do construction yourself but the more you know the better it will turn out being the non-technical general contractor.

I like the one rule a-lot: Ignore them if they have no expertise in the area they're wanting to startup in. Its fine if they don't program.

If you do get involved with a non-tech cofounder, don't take equity or deferred income. Startups are a little like dating in the beginning, there's no need to get married before you ever work together. Someone should pay for your time instead of expecting it for free.

If being paid for your time is working well it's easy to figure out ownership after. If the non-tech cofounder is not willing to put his money where his mouth is, it might be full of something else.

Even as a developer, when I've gotten help on an idea from a friend or colleague I always pay them and say do as much as you can for me, this is my money out of my own pocket. Since us developers are a egalitarian helpful bunch often they want to just help as friends but I make sure to pay because it's just respecting their time and saying hey, if this goes somewhere, we can always figure that out. I've never lost a friendship/colleage relationship this way.

paulnelligan2• 15 years ago

Are there any signs for non-technical co-founders that we should take as 'positives' - like this guy knows what he's talking about ??

I guess the one that springs to mind for me is someone who has previously launched some startups and had some success ...

larrik• 15 years ago

I look for "guy in some field thinks app/site is desperately needed by that field." This implies domain knowledge and existing relationships for target customers.

That's actually pretty rare, in my experience. But, it's how I've seen several non-tech companies start, basically.

The non-technical co-founder should BE that guy. Not know that guy. I get THAT one a lot.

paulnelligan2• 15 years ago

I actually WAS that guy, but I couldn't find my technical co-founder - so I just became a technical founder ... took me a few years, but I'm there now ;)

rickmb• 15 years ago

Even without experience, a very good sign is that they know and are passionate about the market they want to enter.

Sure, it will be a bigger risk if that person has no startup experience, but if they've been working in the X-industry for years, are passionate about said industry and believe they've identified a major (and preferably disruptive) opportunity, that significantly improves the odds.

rday• 15 years ago

Trust. If they don't trust you to make decisions, they are looking for "An IT Guy". Not a co-founder.

shazow• 15 years ago

Another warning sign I've found: They start doing other things, like checking their phone, while you're answering their question.

Even if you disregard that it's a disrespectful and rude thing to do during a conversation, this person is trying to sign you up for a major role in their future and already he can't focus on the task at hand.

The best founders I've had the pleasure of meeting are usually the most respectful and attentive people. Not only do they completely focus on what you're saying but they make you feel like there's no one more important right now than you.

yangtheman• 15 years ago

I can't agree more about prior experiences of working at a tech startup. He was not a co-founder, but I happened to work for a single non-technical founder at his startup. He spoke all the right language - about building engineer-focused, hacker culture, but he really didn't understand and couldn't lead awesome engineers effectively.

dsrikanth• 15 years ago

"Just need someone to build it now" mentality "... and build it for me now"

Boy, how well I can relate to this!! Web development is not a magic bullet. Why is it hard to understand that fact..

patio11• 15 years ago

Assume you achieve total world domination and they make a movie about you. Visualize the narrative arc. Would you think "This guy deserves to be the hero or co-hero of this movie?" If not, you don't want them to be a cofounder.

There are fairly few movies where someone bestows money, a name or an idea on the interesting characters and ends up being really important to the plot.

You want Aragorn, not Elrond, as your cofounder. (Naturally I think of geeks as hobbits.)

P.S. Your co-founder should say the same about you. If you're a tool rather than a partner, fleeeeeeeee.

lucasjake• 15 years ago

I'm undecided about "visualizing the movie they make about you." I think every startuper who has seen "The Social Network" or "Pirates of the Silicon Valley" has done this.

However, I'm leaning on considering it an anti pattern because it borders on a pathological amount of ego.

A better rubric in my mind is, "Can I picture this person in my daily life, for the next decade?" as a slightly more sane variant of this test.

Macsenour• 15 years ago

I'm a game Producer and I get stopped twice a week by people who have the next Angry Birds, and just want me to program it. I call these people "glad handers". They're glad to shake my hand and take 40% for an idea.

tko• 15 years ago

always be aware that each of you have complimenting skill sets...its pointless having two cofounders who can do the same thing..

Also, be aware of your target market and understand the necessary government rules and regulations so that they don't derail your startup.

philwelch• 15 years ago

I'm curious. Doing a startup is kind of an intense all-in undertaking. Why on earth would you even consider doing this with some non-technical stranger you met at a meetup? Isn't that like going to a swing dancing class and proposing to the first woman that catches your eye?

ezl• 15 years ago

(having just wireframes eliminates ~0 risk)

Wireframes might not eliminate risk, but "has wireframes" is a great metric to add to the list for selecting a bizdev guy. The leap from "idea" to "screens/wireframes that outline how the fantasy product should function" is surprisingly difficult for a lot of non tech cofounders.

The willingness and ability to even create the wireframes with sensible description of how the product works separates the top 10%.

If someone comes to you with just an idea tell them to build the wireframes, you'll be surprised how few people come back.

Warning signs in a non-technical cofounder (can you spot them?)

Related Stories