Steam to Chrome OS

https://support.google.com/chromebook/thread/155131703/steam-to-chrome-os?hl=en

by LopRabbit • 4 years ago

236 124 4 years ago

support.google.com

jokowueu• 4 years ago

Since they didn't mention it I'm guessing x86 only chrome books ?

lillecarl• 4 years ago

Anything else would be highly unlikely.

encryptluks2• 4 years ago

I imagine they could pressure manufacturers into building some kind of virtual translation layer with accelerated graphics.

DiabloD3• 4 years ago

AFIACT, it's a "no but yes" sort of answer. Linux games are free to build binaries for any architecture they wish, but any game relying on Proton because it's a Windows binary will require x86.

Good news is, any of us in here are going to buy whatever we want and aren't limited to Chromebooks. Its everyone else that is screwed by the virtual duopoly of Windows and !Windows.

fragmede• 4 years ago

That's not entirely clear to me. Windows on Arm has some weird sort of compatibility layer that could also exist here. It's a different environment but I'm able to run (some) x86 windows programs on an Arm Windows virtual machine, unmodified, under Parallels on an M1 MacBook. Boggles my mind how it all works together, but it does.

ben-schaaf• 4 years ago

There's Box86 and Box64 which run x86/ARM64 binaries on ARM64 fairly well. People have gotten games like Portal 2 running on a PinePhone Pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPr0Aw3xZrA

dEnigma• 4 years ago

Seems like it, at least for now

https://www.aboutchromebooks.com/news/steam-gaming-on-chrome...

ekianjo2• 4 years ago

Box86 and Box64 will make it possible to run x86 games on ARM too. https://boilingsteam.com/box64-can-now-run-crysis-on-arm-wit...

shmerl7• 4 years ago

I'd just stick to gaming on regular Linux.

But I suppose it can be useful for arguing that Linux gaming market is expanding, so developers who like to excuse lack of Linux releases with market size will have less excuses now.

JamesMcMinn• 4 years ago

At this stage, native Linux releases are becoming less and less likely because of Value's efforts to improve gaming on Linux, as paradoxical as that seems. Proton is getting better and better with each release, and in many cases, is providing better performance than running native code on Windows.

Why bother with official Linux support when you can just check that your game runs via Proton and push the burden of support onto Valve and the Proton community?

shmerl7• 4 years ago

I don't see why it has to become less likely for those who care about performance (which major games usually do). Translating DX12 or DX11 into Vulkan has performance overhead, even if you manage to run the game better than on Windows itself (for example Cyberpunk 2077 performs on Linux better than on Windows now). But native releases can perform even better.

And it's probably not always the case that Windows games perform better on Linux through translation than on Windows.

Besides, Wine has to play constant catch up to all kind of NIH stuff that MS will produce. Direct storage is the new one that doesn't have any translation implementation yet. So value of native releases won't disappear.

modeless• 4 years ago

If Proton just becomes the "game runtime" for Linux, that's OK! It's still open source. There may come a time when Proton compatibility becomes as important or even more important than Windows compatibility for game developers. Not only might game developers start explicitly supporting Proton, they could even contribute fixes upstream, unlike with Windows.

Ultimately if it becomes popular enough, Proton could execute the embrace, extend, extinguish strategy on Windows itself. We'll know it succeeded if one day Microsoft gives up NT kernel development in favor of shipping Linux/Proton, just the way they ultimately gave up on Trident and started shipping Blink/Chromium. Today Windows is a relatively small and shrinking percentage of Microsoft's revenue so maybe it's not out of the question in a decade or two.

qudat• 4 years ago

I’ve seen game devs advertise that their game works natively on Linux and is seen as a positive. My guess is if steam deck takes off there will be more games trying to build natively on Linux.

TulliusCicero3• 4 years ago

You and the dozens of people like you, but the Chromebook consumer market is huge.

Right now Steam is only targeting higher end Chromebooks that make up a small fraction of its market share, but I’m sure they’ll improve that over time.

shmerl7• 4 years ago

Dozens is a gross misconception, but this and other similar developments help bust these kind of notions that developers use to ignore Linux gamers.

pjmlp7• 4 years ago

Huge only when we reduce it to the US school market, pretty tiny otherwise.

pjmlp7• 4 years ago

They won't care, because all of these solutions are just emulating Windows in some fashion, so why bother with Linux.

Just keep using DirectX and Win32, and let Steam handle shipping an Windows layer on top fo Linux while calling it "Linux gamming".

lima• 4 years ago

Crostini's (crosvm) virgl is fast enough for gaming? Neat.

DatDay• 4 years ago

This is big

jordanmoconnor3• 4 years ago

Neat - but who’s gaming on a Chromebook?

pja• 4 years ago

Steam streaming will probably work?

jordanmoconnor3• 4 years ago

Ah, didn’t know that was a thing. Not unlike Stadia?

zucker42• 4 years ago

Probably the millions of people who own/have access to one and don't have the ability to buy another computer.

jordanmoconnor3• 4 years ago

I guess I was initially thinking more resource intensive games, but there are lots of smaller games that a Chromebook could handle.

GeckoEidechse• 4 years ago

While this was not stated in the linked post, other sources said it will be limited to x86 chromebooks that run 11th+ gen Intel CPUs or equivalent.

That basically limits it to models that cost >800$ making it a very niche product.

judge20202• 4 years ago

Probably not since it requires an 11th gen i5 or better chrome book https://www.androidcentral.com/steam-for-chrome-os-supported...

donatj• 4 years ago

You'd be surprised the saturation in the 12-18 year old market. So many parents bought their kids chrome books.

someperson• 4 years ago

When travelling, I have used GeForce Now to play Fortnite on an a pretty weak ARM Chromebook from a web browser.

I was able to turn up the graphical settings up much higher than what my regular desktop's ageing GTX 970 graphics card can get, while still maintaining a high frame rate.

Latency is low enough to have fun and contribute to the team. Wasn't a good experience over cellular, but it was very good on a wired connection.

I was very happy to have had a streaming option available at the time.

TulliusCicero3• 4 years ago

Plenty of great little indie games that would work.

Or older games, for that matter.

sangnoir• 4 years ago

I am! Though I've been using Stadia + Chromebook when traveling. As for runnig games locally: I'm not sure if most Chromebooks have adequate GPUs to run recent AAA games, but I'm guessing that's a small portion of most people's Steam catalog.

esalman• 4 years ago

I am a hardcore PC gamer.. but last Christmas I was at the in-law's place and we had a blast trying out a bunch of stadia pro offerings. So much so that I seriously considered buying FIFA on stadia. I just think there's too much of occasional lag on cloud gaming which makes it only suitable for casual gaming.

rtpg• 4 years ago

I was a "only have a Macbook Air" person for a while. You end up sticking to small indie things, but there's lots of games that work on the old integrated graphics stack, available on Steam.

pa7ch2• 4 years ago

My ideal dev machine would be chromeOS running on apple silicon.

Yoric• 4 years ago

Really? I have considered a chromeOS machine from afar, but I wasn't aware that it had reached a stage where it could become a good dev machine.

What's the coding workflow like on chromeOS?

ehsankia3• 4 years ago

If you have a remote box, probably just remote SSH + web IDE (potentially running on your remote box). For full local, you'd do it through the Crostini layer, which is basically Debian.

pa7ch2• 4 years ago

With the exception of a few missing things like full USB pass-through to crostini containers, chromeOS with crostini works about as good as my fedora laptop. I like its window management defaults better then gnome as well. Also you get auto-updated and supported firmware from google and secure boot by default.

Currently running a framework laptop with fedora just because I like the hardware better then most chromebooks and I can very cheaply throw in a fast 2TB ssd rather then spend hundreds extra to upgrade a chromebook to 512GB.

forever_spring• 4 years ago

Mine would be one running upcoming Ryzen APU!

paxys2• 4 years ago

Why not just Linux running on Apple Silicon? Isn't the entire selling point of Chrome OS that it can run well on cheap underpowered hardware?

jeffbee• 4 years ago

Not really. Here are the advantages of ChromeOS as I see them:

Fast, unobtrusive, and regular software updates

Better touchpad and touchscreen support than any other Linux

Perfect integration between local files and files on Google Drive

A bare-bones userspace that is not bristling with security vulnerabilities

Software including the kernel is peak-optimized with profile-guided feedback, specifically and separately for each model of Chromebook, unlike most Linux distros that ship barely-optimized builds without PGO and targeting k8-generic.

shp0ngle• 4 years ago

ChromeOS is basically just Chrome.

Given that most of the time, I just run Chrome and Electron apps, it makes sense.

panick21_• 4 years ago

My ideal machine would be something that has Chrome OS Fireware and security features, a <insert favorite Linux distro> OS and a Apple Silicon.

The great thing about Chromebook is the firmware. Ron Minnich be praised.

alaties• 4 years ago

It might be possible sooner rather than later given Chrome OS Flex is a thing now.

As soon as linux can run on M1s stably, I think Flex would follow suit as well.

devadvance• 4 years ago

Maybe Chrome OS Flex will eventually support ARM Macs [0]? That would be cool for sure. I installed CloudReady for someone last year and it saved him from buying a new computer, and saved me from worrying about ongoing OS updates.

Disclosure: I work at Google and am speaking only for myself. I do not work on anything related to Chrome OS.

[0] https://chromeenterprise.google/os/chromeosflex/

pjmlp7• 4 years ago

I rather use the certified UNIX that ships out of the box with Apple Silicon.

rapind2• 4 years ago

I tired chromeOS a few times as a dev machine and was always disappointed. Thing is, OSX doesn’t really get in my way using just a terminal, web browser, and spotlight. Installing stuff can be annoying at times compared to Linux, but it was even worse on chrome (basically didn’t work). I ended up ssh’d to a remote vps on chromeOS to get things done.

mdoms• 4 years ago

You'd think they would want to double- and triple-down on their cloud gaming platform, Stadia, for Chromebooks. But there's also good reason to believe that platform won't be going the distance so perhaps this is another signal in that direction.

ehsankia3• 4 years ago

Why not both. Stadia on Chromebook is great, but more option the better. They also have android games through play store.

Grazester• 4 years ago

What's that even mean? It's cloud gaming which means you can access it from a Chrome window.

chrisjc• 4 years ago

I don't know enough about Steam

... does Steam provide any sort of services that manage the runtime of games or is the majority of the game still dependent on the users rig? remote GPU workloads/rendering, managing game-play coordination, etc?

If not, then it sounds like working with google (maybe others too) to get Steam running on ChromeOS is a fantastic idea that doesn't conflict with any of their own ambitions.

It's good for google bc you'll potentially attract more users to ChromeOS and once they're on ChromeOS, I'm sure they'll have more exposure to Stadia and other google services. Moreover, as game developers and platforms start to migrate a lot of their workloads to the cloud, Steam might be able to provide a more seamless way to do so (proton?)... again, potentially using google services or even the Stadia backend to do so.

It's good for Valve bc if furthers their independence from Windows. It may also lower the barrier and provide access to individuals that don't have the money or access to expense machines and OSes, especially if the compute intense operations can be offloaded to GPU services in the cloud.

torginus• 4 years ago

Wait - does this mean that if Steam ships on Chromebook, and Steam can be made to run arbitrary software via proton, that Chromebooks have become regular laptops?

em3rgent0rdr• 4 years ago

To be clear, chromebooks have for a few years been able to be regular labtops since crouton [1] allowed installing linux distros on them. (And could even use wine to run windows games on the x86 chromebooks.)

[1] https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton

AviationAtom• 4 years ago

Or go a step further and flash a modified UEFI firmware on it, then natively run a Linux distro. My HP Chromebook from 2013 is rocking still, almost a decade after release. I run Gallium on it, for optimal compatibility with all the hardware.

cl3misch• 4 years ago

Not sure if this is a joke, but you can already "officially" install a Debian environment from within ChromeOS.

https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en

ehsankia3• 4 years ago

Indeed, this is just a more convenient and user friendly support layer than installing stuff through Crostini.

mistrial9• 4 years ago

hey interesting - new to me.. (checks models) yep, the Chromebook on the desk is one of "the ones that have Linux" ..

"Camera not supported yet" .. feature!

paxys2• 4 years ago

Chromebooks can already run arbitrary software, via a full Linux VM running alongside ChromeOS.

conradev2• 4 years ago

It is worth noting that ChromeOS runs Linux software in a neat way to isolate it from the host OS.

It runs it in Debian-based KVM VMs, and it uses virtio-wayland[1] to pass the applications through to the host compositor, making them feel as if they are not running in a VM.

This architecture means that ChromeOS can preserve its readonly system partition, delta updates, and fast boot times while being able to run any Linux app. Very similar to Qubes, actually.

[1] https://alyssa.is/using-virtio-wl/

mwcampbell• 4 years ago

Does virtio-wayland support accelerated graphics? It's not clear to me how that would work, since accelerated graphics drivers typically include hardware-specific userland code that has to run in the application.

Mikeb85• 4 years ago

They've always been able to run Linux things through dev mode, or installing a different distro, etc...

moltke• 4 years ago

Regardless, last time I was in Walmart Chromebooks where the only laptop available. For better or worse (mostly worse IMO) as far as a large portion of the population is concerned "regular laptops" are specialized equipment that they won't have.

pipeline_peak• 4 years ago

How many Steam games actually run on Chromebooks? Let alone on Linux in general.

dadoprso• 4 years ago

You can stream steam games to any device with the steam binary installed.

m0ngr31• 4 years ago

https://www.protondb.com

Quite a lot actually. Obviously you won't be playing AAA games on a Chromebook, but I think most would run lots of older games well enough

shadowgovt2• 4 years ago

For AAA games on chromebook, I believe Stadia was supposed to be the solution.

Emphasis on was. Ask me again in 6 months.

pengaru2• 4 years ago

Wake me up when Steam supports ARM builds.

ekianjo2• 4 years ago

It's the other way around, you have services like Box86 and Box64 to translate x86 and x86_64 binaries to run on ARM architecture.

pengaru2• 4 years ago

Valve has already added arm64 libs for macos steamworks, implying a native arm client should be imminent at least for macos.

It'd be nice to have a linux arm client and steamworks support for native rpi and arm chromebooks.

sendilkumarn• 4 years ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30692091

pvg• 4 years ago

There's no discussion there so these end up being links to nowhere.

mabbo• 4 years ago

I think some folks are missing the really neat thing about this: remote play.

Steam supports playing games remotely on another computer. So your desktop is doing the heavy lifting, but you can view the game on your TV in the livingroom. Now you can be playing the game on your Chromebook as well.

Then the next step is that Google Cloud offers you an on demand high end gaming machine, pay by the minute, which runs Steam on Windows x86 and has an instant VPN to your Chromebook.

I set this up successfully once on an AWS machine and a very low end laptop running Ubuntu, but I couldn't get the hardware accelerated video encoding to work right. 3 seconds per frame made the game hilariously unplayable, but it did function.

allanbreyes• 4 years ago

You can do remote play on a Chromebook right now with Moonlight! Works great (for me). Some other alternatives include Parsec and Rainway, and probably a few others I'm missing.

jchw2• 4 years ago

Then the next step is that Google Cloud offers you an on demand high end gaming machine, pay by the minute, which runs Steam on Windows x86 and has an instant VPN to your Chromebook.

I find it difficult to believe they'd offer this, given that they already have Stadia.

I do see how this could be more appealing for consumers, but aside from competing with themselves, I also would be curious about the economics. Considering how expensive GPUs are, is it even possible the prices for an on-demand gaming service could ever make that much sense? With Stadia, they are making you buy the games through Stadia itself, where they would get a cut of the revenue, which probably helps subsidize the actual cost of the service a bit more.

There's also other very irritating issues. For example, a litany of AAA game companies do not allow their games to be streamed via GeForce Now, even though it would be running your own copy that you bought from your Steam or other library. I assume they would fight to earn additional money on game streaming, even though the money simply isn't there.

This is unfortunate, but perhaps it's OK. Lower end devices will be getting more and more powerful and eventually I'm sure even reasonably priced Chromebooks will be able to play games decently. Given this launch only applies to newer Intel processor based Chromebooks, that day is not today... but still, it certainly could be on the horizon.

crummy• 4 years ago

I find it difficult to believe they'd offer this, given that they already have Stadia.

Isn't Stadia moving to a PaaS for purposes just like this?

mikepurvis• 4 years ago

It feels to me like the only logical economic future for game streaming is as a value add for a game subscription service (so like, xgp and xcloud as a logical pairing).

technobabbler9• 4 years ago

Google never really tried with stadia. It's just another dead Google product, now changing into some sort of B2B thing. Shrug.

Meanwhile Nvidia kept improving geforce now and it's actually really good now, running on everything from operating systems to browsers with no noticeable lag. Cheap too, like $15 a mo or so, and works with most of your Steam library. Where it doesn't, usually means that the publisher wanted to get off for some reason.

Xbox Game Pass is another great steaming option (via xcloud), Netflix like subscription service that lets you stream games.

There's also Shadow and Luna and such. Many companies are doing this well, just not Google.

rapind2• 4 years ago

Stadia was dead on arrival. Working with Valve has the potential of being really really smart, but I’m not sure this develops into anything significant.

technobabbler9• 4 years ago

Every time I've tried Steam Play, even over hardwired gigabit, it's been laggy, buggy, and crash prone. There was always display switching problems, controllers and keyboards not being detected correctly, graphical issues, etc. Just a PITA.

GeForce Now works much better and doesn't require you to have your own GPU. Do need fast internet though.

sen2• 4 years ago

I use Remote Play regularly (bed-bound lots due to medical issues) and never had a problem, but have found it’s finicky on your setup. Eg it never really worked on my ISP-provided modem/router but once I got a UDM (for unrelated reasons) it worked flawlessly and has ever since.

The fact I can lie in bed with laptop plugged into bedroom TV and use a PS4 controller to play games running on my gaming PC in another room is truly awesome.

tfolbrecht• 4 years ago

If anyone else uses Steam Link, Steam link works well on the ChromeOS Linux Development Environment

https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.valvesoftware.SteamLink

As does the Android App in the ChromeOS Android Play Store.

Can't wait to have the full steam experience!

ocdtrekkie• 4 years ago

I remember when Chrome OS first came out. I have an old Chromebox I got at Google I/O over a decade ago too. And I remember all of the narrative about it being better because it was just the web browser, and the web was all you needed.

Chrome OS has firmly educated me on how to read marketing copy about things the product doesn't have. "Tell people they don't need it until you catch up to your competitors."

Ten years more from now if Chrome OS still exists, I expect it to simply be another macOS or Windows clone with more or less all of the same features and trappings.

scaredginger• 4 years ago

A few years ago (around 2015-2016), I got Counter Strike: Global Offensive running on my x86 Chromebook using Chrubuntu. The experience was about as good as one would expect, but it was still a fun time

Steam to Chrome OS

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