Masks on planes requirement dropped by some UK airlines

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/british-airways-virgin-atlantic-remove-face-masks-certain-flights/index.html

by taubek • 4 years ago

40 105 4 years ago

Hulitio5• 4 years ago

Just be aware that it might mean for you that you catch COVID and will be sick in your holiday.

I got COVID from one event 3 weeks ago and it threw my plans around.

It wasn't that big of an issue as I have a booster but I planed to visit a close friend who does cancer treatment and I was quite happy that he had no time for a short visit as I learned about my COVID invection two days later and I don't want to put him on unnecessary risk.

Let's see and hope covids route to endemic is getting easier and easier.

culopatin3• 4 years ago

In reality I all a bit of a theatre. If you believe in the mask effectiveness, you’ll get it when everyone takes their mask off at the same time to eat every time they hand off something. Almost no one wears an n95 for long flights and most people will wear the mask as poorly as they can anyway.

Edit: just to clarify, I don’t have anything against anyone who believes in the mask effectiveness and wants to wear it. But I don’t see the point of enforcing the half assed way things are being done.

involans• 4 years ago

You don't have to eat during the flight, or you can delay eating to be out of phase. I've done that and so far it's been effective over a number of transatlantic flights.

Hulitio5• 4 years ago

I'm not what there is to believe in mask effectiveness?

There are studies about it.

You don't get infected with COVID just because it's a mix of your own immune reaction, the amount of particles etc.

A mask is really easy to wear and reduces your risk.

I'm not advocating for mask mandates at this point or let's say I don't care about it but if you want to reduce the risk of having COVID while on holiday, I would suggest trying to wear a mask.

Independently of it, in Germany the hospitalization is currently high and plenty of personal is sick. I still don't want to be in a situation of having something really bad and having to be in a hospital right now.

breakfastduck• 4 years ago

Absolute nonsense.

ImaCake4• 4 years ago

Non-substantive comments aren’t really welcome here. If you disagree with someone, explain why. HN respects a well worded argument.

Hulitio5• 4 years ago

Are you not aware of the steep COVID invection s around the globe?

Germany is now at 150000-200000 daily new cases.

We have not had this before. This means that you chance to get it and perhaps you being sick for 1-3 weeks is much much higher than before.

It was just something I wanted to share so that you might plan ahead for this case or weir a mask to reduce the risk and have a great holiday.

And for the last few weeks way more people got COVID around myself than ever before.

This is also, next to intensive care capacity, a big risk if for example too many people from police, medical sector, fireman get sick in parallel.

andy_ppp2• 4 years ago

I saw some research that suggested planes (and cinemas) don't transmit the virus as much as a bar or restaurant, say, because you aren't really aerosolising the virus in the same way (i.e. vigorous conversations). Apparently the worst places are things like choirs and church where everyone is spraying potential virus into the air...

Do we really have any definitive answers around masking effectiveness in different situations, there must have been some decent research by now?

yakshaving_jgt• 4 years ago

I wonder what happens to all the conspiracy theorists who a couple of years ago said "this [the enforcement of mask wearing] is just the beginning", and that this is "exactly what Orwell predicted"?

Do they admit they were wrong? Or do they conveniently forget they ever said anything like that and move onto the next conspiracy (which currently is likely to resemble toeing the Kremlin line)?

tuwtuwtuwtuw• 4 years ago

According to my coworker, US is now planning a false flag nuclear strike in Ukraine. I asked for a source and he linked some random youtuber who claimed this without any source except "common sense".

So I'm guessing option 2.

bigDinosaur3• 4 years ago

Where I live one is still required to present what amounts to an internal passport to do pretty much anything, despite not having any medical justification. Certainly some things have been normalised which never should have been normalised.

ImaCake4• 4 years ago

Don’t these kind of things happen whenever a war or pandemic happens? Showing your papers was important during WWI and WWII and I am aware of plenty of quarantines and mask mandates associated with previous cholera/TB/flu pandemics.

Sure, I agree it sets a dangerous precedent, but we have been setting those kind of precedents for like 150 years. In that time we’ve had totalitarian states and liberal democracies.

traceroute66• 4 years ago

Where I live one is still required to present what amounts to an internal passport to do pretty much anything, despite not having any medical justification.

Except the UK is an a joke in relation to vaccine passports.

The politicians spout "authoritarian" "libertarian" bullshit as an excuse for not using vaccine passports.

But then THE VERY SAME GOVERNMENT is very happy indeed to introduce a requirement for people to produce ID when voting (Elections Bill). And yet somehow none of the same politicians make any mention of "authoritarian" or "libertarian" when it comes to mandating ID for voting.

Or indeed we are talking about THE VERY SAME GOVERNMENT that is busy trying very hard indeed to introduce laws to limit protests (Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill).

And THE VERY SAME GOVERNMENT that is trying very hard indeed to bring in laws (Nationality and Borders Bill) enabling them to remove British citizenship from someone even if it renders them stateless.

Its an absolute farce.

hughrr3• 4 years ago

I know one of those guys.

I don't even pretend to know exactly what thoughts are occurring in his head but form the outside he appears to hold several logically inconsistent ideas at the same time and is desperately trying to find a causal relationship between them.

As for forgetting, they never forget. More noise and ideas are added to the same pool of thought and consistency is never resolved. I suspect you either grow out of it in some way or go insane.

PaulKeeble• 4 years ago

There were quite a few protests in the UK last year against the lockdowns, despite the fact there was no lockdown at the time or planned (nor did it happen) in the future. Quite a few cults seem to go past their doomsday date and simply choose another into the future. They just carry on as if the lack of the event never happened.

hughrr3• 4 years ago

My aunt is one of that lot. She basically lives a completely normal, boring and uninteresting life (lucky woman!). The old idiom "The devil finds work for idle hands" may apply.

dustinmoris3• 4 years ago

Those protests happened because new lockdowns were introduced in the EU at that time and the Labour party was calling for harsher restrictions again despite all evidence from South Africa suggesting that Omicron is nothing but a super mild cold and people already being double jabbed anyway. People were terrified of another lockdown and that is why they went protesting to offer a counter voice to opposition party MPs who tried to instil another wave of fear.

I never went to any protest, not just this but in general, but I was very pleased that there were huge protests in the UK and elsewhere at that time, because I had enough of restricting my own life for the sake of others.

brigandish13• 4 years ago

despite the fact there was no lockdown at the time or planned (nor did it happen) in the future

Did you not consider the possibility that the government bowed to pressure, such as the protests, and didn't lockdown?

hihihihi12343• 4 years ago

Have people already forgotten how much pressure the government was under in December to lock us down again? SAGE were predicting 6000 deaths a day, as if their modelling hadn't already been discredited ten times over, and all the usual suspects in the media and the Labour Party were screaming for more restrictions. If it hadn't been for partygate, the backbench Tory rebellion, and massive public resistance in the form of protests and more, Boris would have caved to SAGE and we'd have had another two months of our lives stolen, another Christmas ruined, another term of school missed, another million livelihoods destroyed and another ten billion added to the public debt - and it would have all been completely unnecessary, because Omicron was a fat load of nothing and SAGE's modelling turned out to be wrong yet again. But people would have pointed to the low death rate and said "I told you lockdown was necessary! If we hadn't locked down we would be seeing 6000 deaths a day!"

Also, these protests werent just against lockdown. There were enormous protests against vaccine passports, and they were successful - the govt had vaxpasses ready to go in the summer and pushed them back repeatedly before cancelling them in the face of public pressure and tireless campaigning from civil liberties groups like Big Brother Watch. If it hadn't been for the protests then you wouldnt have been able to go to Sainsbury's in the last six months without scanning your QR code.

Finally, there were also protests against vaccine mandates, and in particular the vaccine mandate for NHS staff. Personally I found those protests silly - I would have thought that NHS workers of all people would understand the importance of getting vaccinated, but the facts are that the government initially announced that NHS workers would be fired if they didn't get the jab then walked this back when it became clear that enforcing this rule would mean firing tens of thousands of intransigent NHS staff and they couldn't afford the shortages. There was a gigantic protest in London in January against the NHS vax mandate (not that you'd have heard about it on the news) - a protest which unequivocally achieved its goal.

If you don't think people were protesting against anything real or that the protests didn't achieve anything then you haven't been paying attention.

tinybrotosaurus• 4 years ago

Conspiracy? Their point is compliance. Do what you are told without questioning it, be it government policy or corporate wish. People did nothing after 2008, they did nothing after proof of government mass surveillance, and they choose not to care what software runs in their devices on a daily basis. 50 years ago no one would even consider installing a microphone in their houses, now those that refuse it are seen as the paranoid. Current generation will not even bat an eye if their cars required them to watch an ad before turning on.

antihero• 4 years ago

I did question it, and I also remember when the police and government were trying to ban masks as they hindered surveillance. Seems like people seemed to forget that. It was a small inconvenience that probably helped things. Now it’s kind of irritating - currently on holiday in Lisboa and the obsessiveness is frustrating.

kryogen1c2• 4 years ago

This is entirely the wrong take. Its like saying everyone was panicking for no reason in the Cold War because Earth wasn't destroyed in nuclear hellfire.

Its feasible that vocal protests helped push back against further tyranny.

i dont want to go down the who was right and who was wrong rabbit hole of covid policies. just dont use hindsight to try and retroactively prove your point.

wasmitnetzen• 4 years ago

Doesn't that mean you can warn of anything, and if it doesn't happen, you can say "See, it didn't happen because I yelled about it on the internet"?

WA• 4 years ago

The conspiracy theorists always claimed that there is some kind of master plan to enslave the human race by the elite and that masks and whatnot are just the beginning.

How does a minority protest stop the evil masterplan? This makes no sense at all. Either there is a master plan and you have to have 90% of the people on the street opposing this, or there was no master plan from the get go.

The conspiracy theory crumbles under its own weight.

jacamera2• 4 years ago

Speaking only for myself, the fear of creeping authoritarianism is not about some grand conspiracy by "the elites" but rather about our collective tolerance of such a "new normal." I just responded to another commenter here who was lamenting the fact that the mask mandates are not permanent. That person's vote counts just as much as mine. I don't think it's ever unreasonable to think that any policy that restricts one's freedom has the potential to either a) become permanent or b) lead to additional restrictions.

djbebs• 4 years ago

The ones that have consistently been proven right about government overreach?

djohnston• 4 years ago

If you don't have a vaccine passport you need to go pay a private company for a test to ensure you don't have a virus the vaccine doesn't even prevent you from contracting. How is that not a dangerous and persistent normalisation of government overreach?

tomerv2• 4 years ago

Shame, I actually liked the idea of mandatory masks on public transportation. I always get sick on flights (pre-COVID; I haven't flown since COVID started) and it's really annoying to have a runny nose while on vacation. I'm sure I catch it in the airport or on the plane, because it always starts 1-2 after the flight.

hughrr3• 4 years ago

If it's anything like my discovery with supermarkets, most of it might not be airborne. I started gelling my hands after using a trolley a few years back. Rarely if ever get sick now. I suspect people sneezing all over the handle and then me rubbing my face was why I was always sick.

mschuster91• 4 years ago

Yeah, but SARS-CoV-2 is spread via aerosols, as are influenza viruses [1].

Not to say it's not a good idea to disinfect your shopping cart handle - and the downturn of the last years in non-covid infectious diseases as part of hygienic measures being made mandatory or at the very least somewhat followed proves that -, but it won't help much against covid.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC3372341/

andybak2• 4 years ago

I had a very expensive holiday mostly ruined because someone arrived at a 1 to 1 meeting with me the week before and announced 5 minutes in: "sorry - i've got a cold at the moment".

I now always phone ahead if I've got sniffles and ask permission. There should be better ettiquette around things like this.

aeternum2• 4 years ago

I'd rather see the ettiquette around coughing in public confined spaces. In some cultures it is frowned upon and happens very rarely.

In western culture it seems like the agreement is that coughs are completely uncontrollable and are acceptable anywhere.

Maybe those that can't control their coughs should wear masks but those healthy enough to suppress coughs do not have to.

jacamera2• 4 years ago

Have you considered taking steps to possibly improve your own health instead of wishing that a government or corporation would require everyone around you to wear a face covering indefinitely for your own personal benefit?

blub2• 4 years ago

What’s there to improve about one’s health? Cold viruses are very contagious and the majority of people don’t have good hygiene or consideration for others.

There’s so many people that don’t want to wear seatbelts, what hope is there for masks.

tomerv2• 4 years ago

I'm not sure what you mean by that. In general I'm healthy. If you're implying I should wear a mask when flying, then the problem with that is that pre-COVID you would be seen as weird for going on a plane with a mask. I suspect it will go back to that status eventually if there are no rules forcing masks. Maybe that's the Nash equilibrium. An external rule can change the equilibrium to something that is better for everyone - including you.

chrismatheson• 4 years ago

Nothing stopping you wearing one on your own :) could help reduce the probability of getting sick.

kylehotchkiss2• 4 years ago

Nice N95 masks are readily available now and more comfortable than they were before 2020. Even when the rule drops you are welcome to wear one. I always feel like I want to throw up while wearing a mask on a plane because it amplifies the thin dry air for me / feels constricting so I'm excited for the rule to be removed as I'd feel less sick on the plane.

ecf• 4 years ago

Echoing a comment to the original OP, have you considered taking steps to improve your personal health instead of putting those around you at risk?

wrp• 4 years ago

About 20% of passengers on a flight typically catch a cold (rhinovirus). I researched this issue several years ago because it was quite a problem for me. After I began following hygienic measures, I rarely caught a cold. I made a recent comment regarding this (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30539411).

ImaCake4• 4 years ago

I think the timing is right for this. Or at least it is getting close to the right time. Case Fatality Rate in heavily vaxxed populations is getting below seasonal influenza so the burden on society just isn’t as high as it was. The threat model has completely changed.

alkonaut• 4 years ago

How is this newsworthy? Aren't at least domestic flights mask-free in lots of countries for a long time now? I remember flying mask free both october last year, and a month ago. Unless the requirement was reinstated between october and now, that's a good 5 months at least.

jl6• 4 years ago

Covid appears to be “done” in the UK. Not that the virus is gone, just that there now seems to be widespread acceptance of its health impact, and a strong desire to move on without any restrictions on normal life.

Reason077• 4 years ago

My theory is that there can be only one crisis at a time in this country. Brexit gave way to Covid, and for 18 months or so that was the only story in the news.

But now, there’s a frigging war going on in Europe, so Covid might as well not exist anymore.

core-utility• 4 years ago

Add the US to the list of "only one crisis".

brigandish13• 4 years ago

Can be only one and must be at least one would seem to describe the news very well.

kylehotchkiss2• 4 years ago

Before the war, multiple effective vaccines were invented and distributed, promising medications for those sick are distributing, and we have a better understanding of the types of events that cause mass infection (conferences of course!) and a realization that aviation was not the super spreader event that many other things were. We even have increasingly better pictures of vaccine cadence (which I hope just become annual soon!). Covid as a crisis needed to end, and Ukraine has served as an odd segue out of it.

Overtonwindow3• 4 years ago

Perhaps media and politicians have decided they’ve gotten enough power and politics out of this crisis, and now it’s OK to move onto the next one.

Overtonwindow3• 4 years ago

I am neither a medical professional, nor a scientist, but I absolutely fail to see how wearing a mask on a three hour flight, sitting side by side, is going to protect anyone.

Please, is there real science to back up wearing a mask but still being 18 inches away from each other, for hours on end, or is this just the flight attendants union?

I beg your pardon, but I Really hate masks on planes and I think it’s total BS.

dTal• 4 years ago

In a small unventilated closed room you'd be right - the aerosol from mask leakage would saturate the room and the masks would be useless. The kind of masks that most people wear are mainly useful for preventing direct droplet transmission when two people's faces are in close proximity - especially when there's talking involved.

However an airliner is extremely well ventilated - the entire cabin air is refreshed every 3 minutes, through a combination of HEPA filters and fresh outside air. In addition, the airflow in the cabin is vertical - new air is introduced at the top through the nozzles you're used to, and the intakes are by your feet. This means the risk from ambient aerosol transmission is much reduced and direct droplet infection becomes the primary risk vector. I would absolutely expect to see a reduction in transmission if everyone kept wearing masks.

Overtonwindow3• 4 years ago

That is very helpful, thank you. So it's airflow that is the advantage. I guess my next question, at what point, if ever, will it be ok to fly without masks?

freitasm• 4 years ago

Until people go on a summer holiday this season and fall ill. When people start dying they might ask themselves "why?" and realise that the virus is not actually gone. Just wishful thinking.

usedtoprog3• 4 years ago

Key takeaway is "mask requirement dropped". Everyone should feel free to protect themselves. Just don't mandate that other people do things to protect you.

floor2• 4 years ago

So roughly, everyone should wear bullet proof vests and gas masks, because it's unreasonable to mandate that people not shoot guns into the air or spray mace whenever they want.

We have mandates for how wiring and plumbing need to work in private homes, apartments, offices, etc to maintain safety. We have mandates for how fast cars can drive, which lanes they can use, how they need to signal turns to maintain safety. We have mandates for what chemicals farmers can spray on fields and what chemicals factories can dump into sewers.

The mask mandate is so utterly trivial compared to everything else in our lives. The airplane also makes you wear a seatbelt, is that a violation of your rights?

dreaminvm• 4 years ago

If not now, then when?

UK studies show IFR for COVID for those vaccinated/immunized is now lower than seasonal flu [1]. We never wore masks during the flu and I am not sure why anyone would advocate this continuing. Moreover if someone wants to wear a mask, nothing stops them from doing that, but don't force it on everyone ages 2 and up.

https://www.ft.com/content/e26c93a0-90e7-4dec-a796-3e25e94bc... [1]

landemva• 4 years ago

The virus will never be gone. It will continue to mutate in humans and animals and transfer between species.

At some point people learn how to get back to life. Others can shut themselves in their house and have everything delivered to quarantine box outside their door.

0xdeadb00f• 4 years ago

At some point people learn how to get back to life.

So.. What's wrong with living life in masks for the foreseeable future then? Is that not "life" to you? If not then you are seriously privileged and need to realise that.

Masks on planes requirement dropped by some UK airlines

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