ReactOS "ready approximately for 80% of real world usage"

http://www.osnews.com/story/25155/ReactOS_Demonstrated_to_Russian_President_Medvedev

by userulluipeste • 15 years ago

52 39 15 years ago

runjake3• 15 years ago

This isn't a slam against ReactOS, but it's ready for 80% of real world use if you're using late 90s/early 2000s applications. Seems like Marat might've been stretching the truth to the president.

chrisballinger• 15 years ago

The last time I used ReactOS it would crash and burn after using it for about 2-5 minutes with their supplied VMware image. This is with only using the applications that were included with it, as well.

JohnTHaller• 15 years ago

Their supplied 0.3.13 image blue screens on bootup on the current release of VirtualBox,

BrandonMTurner• 15 years ago

I was an active developer of ReactOS for about the time period of 2003-2007, including acting as the release engineer for the project for 2 years.

I feel like I can speak from unique stand point as I saw everything from the inside.

ROS is a lot of things, but one thing it is NOT is production ready.

From what I can tell, not a lot in the process has changed since I left. I am sure a lot of things code wise have changed but not enough to make a marginal difference.

One of the biggest issues ROS faces is the lack of testers. Since it can't be used a production OS very few people will actually test it. When I was there, we had 2 dedicated testers. For a whole operating system, that will not cut it.

Another issue is with driver compatibility. While it is true that it runs good on emulated hardware, it has a long long way to go before actual Windows drivers let it run on actual hardware. One small thing in the driver can cause everything to stop working. And with only ~20 active developers at the time, there is a finite set of hardware that can be debugged on. Not to mention only 3-4 of the 20 developers were skilled enough to fix issues with device drivers.

ROS is also fighting uphill battle by chasing Windows when Windows has 100s of developers working on it. I left ROS and worked for Microsoft for two years so I also know how much faster MSFT is going then ROS. Though, even if they got to full XP compatibility it would be one of the most impressive feats I have ever seen of open source, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

And finally, the last main issue with ROS is the developers itself. There was so few dedicated, we only had ~30 people with write permissions. Of those, only 15 were active. And those 15 were all working in their own area. I worked in shallow (read: non complex) Win32 API and user applications (cmd.exe, control panel, etc...). But everyone had their own section they were interested in and they worked at their own pace with little to no oversight. You either need focus/vision or resources to make real technical progress on a project this large. Without one of those you have no chance. And ROS didn't have either.

All that said, I loved working on ROS. It taught me how to write real code and I learned way more from working on ROS then I did getting my degree. The people on a personal level were great, and some of them were the most technically sound developers I have ever met. Sadly, a whole OS is being carried on their back.

pavs• 15 years ago

From http://www.reactos.org/en/about.html

ReactOS 0.3.13 is still in under heavy development (alpha stage) and is not ready for everyday use.

runjake3• 15 years ago

If you read the linked article, it quotes the main ReactOS engineer as saying it was "ready for 80% of real world use". This is what Brandon is addressing.

runjake3• 15 years ago

Your point about how Microsoft is accelerating faster than ReactOS is exactly why I don't pay much attention to ReactOS anymore. For a while, MS was sort of stagnating and the idea of catching up (reasonably well) was within reason, but now that they've kicked into gear, I just don't see it happening, especially with more focus on WPF, Silverlight, and Windows 8.

nitrogen2• 15 years ago

When I was there, we had 2 dedicated testers. For a whole operating system, that will not cut it.

They could probably set up some elaborate automated testing with something like the Phoronix Test Suite, or just a bunch of scripts.

abdulhaq• 15 years ago

Working on drivers should be put to one side (if indeed they are spending time on that) and they should work on the emulated hardware only until they reach XP-level. This would be a massive achievement that millions of Linux users etc. could benefit from in terms of running their Windows-only apps inside VirtualBox or the like, allowing them to dump their dual-boot setups just to run Quicken or what have you.

xyzzyz• 15 years ago

Why not link to the original source?

http://www.reactos.org/en/news_page_67.html

It contains much more information.

SwellJoe5• 15 years ago

This has always seemed like a solution looking for a problem, to me. There are better Open Source operating systems for (more than) 80% of real world problems, and have been since before ReactOS began. If you're choosing an OS that can't run most of the big apps on Windows, anyway, why not simply choose a better OS to start with. It's obvious that Linux and UNIX systems are pretty vastly superior to Windows in all but application support...and there are several very good free and Open Source Linux and UNIX systems. And, as far as I can tell, WINE can run as much or more Windows software as ReactOS.

It's a tremendous amount of work to make a bug-compatible version of Windows. Of course, I can't argue with people and what they want to spend their time on, but I sure as heck wouldn't volunteer to work on a Windows clone. It seems a big waste of some really talented people's (and I'm certain they're quite talented; getting this far is a monumental feat) time.

rjd• 15 years ago

Well from an outsider look I'd say the problem is the majority of businesses are running Windows and have reasons not to move off Windows. Even basic reasons such as staff training. This from what I can tell is addressing that issue.

As for your statement about Linux and Unix being better thats far from true. There are many areas where Windows doesn't compete at all with those systems, but its also completely true that Linux and Unix is completely rubbish at certain things Windows excels at.

Like most things you should choose the OS that meets your needs, and for most people using a Microsoft stack, with Microsoft trained users, using software aimed at Microsoft platforms then this could be the answer.

Proof will be in the pudding of course, these guys are far from ready at this point, and are approaching the hard part of a project.

thwarted3• 15 years ago

Is this anything other than application support?

ra• 15 years ago

> but its also completely true that Linux and Unix is completely rubbish at certain things Windows excels at.

Have you got an example?

SwellJoe5• 15 years ago

"Proof will be in the pudding of course, these guys are far from ready at this point, and are approaching the hard part of a project."

They may be approaching the hard part of the project, just as the desktop is becoming irrelevant. It's already too late. It was too late when they started, but it's really too late now.

"Like most things you should choose the OS that meets your needs, and for most people using a Microsoft stack, with Microsoft trained users, using software aimed at Microsoft platforms then this could be the answer."

I don't see how it could be. It is a clone of Windows XP (a ten year old operating system, no longer supported by Microsoft). It runs on less hardware, works with fewer Windows applications, and works less reliably, than a Linux system with WINE (which I also don't consider a useful substitute for Windows in the context you're speaking of, but it's better than ReactOS currently, and probably well into the future, since it has more active developers, more commercial support, and smaller more obtainable goals).

Again, I think ReactOS is a solution looking for a problem.

CoffeeDregs• 15 years ago

[Note: I run Debian on my laptop and servers. And I use Gnome 3! <ducks>]

    >Well from an outsider look I'd say the problem is the 
    >majority of businesses are running Windows and have reasons 
    >not to move off Windows.

[I understand that you soften this later, but...]

This is not a Bad Thing. I certainly would say that MS has used some nasty tactics to gain dominance, but more power to them if they provide value to customers.

Personally, I don't see the value in the ROS project. MS provides a product that people use on servers and that's fine. The ROS team's calories would be much better expended helping Linux improve.

    > its also completely true that Linux and Unix is completely rubbish 
    > at certain things Windows excels at.

I'd love an example here. AFAIK, ROS is basically a server OS and I'm not aware of any places that Windows demolishes Linux/Unix in the server arena (except in the I've-got-an-army-of-Windows-IT-folks department).

xentronium• 15 years ago

> Well from an outsider look I'd say the problem is the majority of businesses are running Windows and have reasons not to move off Windows. Even basic reasons such as staff training. This from what I can tell is addressing that issue.

I don't know how things are in other countries, but here in Russia if you are not using windows programs for accounting (namely 1C:Enterprise), you're going to have troubles converting them for the federal tax service. This is effectively a microsoft/1C monopoly since 1C:Enterprise only runs on windows stack (there has been some success with WINE, but it is not supported, of course). That is why lots of small businesses use pirated windows and could benefit from development of alternate windows compatible OS like ReactOS.

jigs_up• 15 years ago

the last 5 percent is the hardest

housel• 15 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

teyc2• 15 years ago

meanwhile Windows8 wouldn't even load the desktop until it is required. The Windows as we know it is turning into legacy OS just to run old apps.

watmough• 15 years ago

Ah, interesting, do you have a source on this? I'm very interested to see how much emphasis they are going to place on the new HTML5 / app style of development.

I expect Win32 MFC, ATL etc., will live on forever in some form, but Windows 8 sounds like it will be a break hard towards the future, in an even stronger way than the move from Win32 / MFC to .NET was.

teyc2• 15 years ago

Windows 8 desktop to be 'just another app,' says Microsoft exec

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9219680/Windows_8_des...

ReactOS "ready approximately for 80% of real world usage"

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