In response to the moderation team resignation (Rust)

https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2021/11/25/in-response-to-the-moderation-team-resignation.html

by trenchgun • 5 years ago

51 32 5 years ago

rektide• 5 years ago

this is not a response. it is a notice that teams are responding. in systems nerd parlance, they have taken the incoming connection socket off the listening socket. communication channels have opened.

killingtime744• 5 years ago

They are still brainstorming how to spin the un-spinnable. This is like when all of a defendant's lawyers quit or all independent board members quit or auditors refuse to sign your annual report. Maybe hire some PR people to do it for you.

CheezeIt5• 5 years ago

It seems to me more like, the prosecution decided not to present their case, and the defendant’s lawyers are trying to figure out the right motion to file.

ziml772• 5 years ago

I don't know why any of us are judging all of this from nothing. The only pieces of information we have are that the moderation team left because of issues with the core team and that they think no one should trust the Rust core team. But I don't know why I should trust either side. I need a lot more info before concluding anything.

killingtime744• 5 years ago

It's the defence team quit In the analogy due to their access to internal Communication which they cannot reveal. probably under threat of anti-disparagement or defamation. Cannot see it as not presenting their case, have to read between their lines.

Of course the Rust core team could be fully transparent and release everything to us outsiders to judge, but somehow I don’t think they will. Looks like they are figuring out how to bury it

CRConrad4• 5 years ago

You're confused about what the "case" is. The moderation team didn't publish the details of whatever shitty thing someone on the core team may have done because they don't matter. What they're resigning over is the fact that they can't do anything about it, because the core team claims not to be under the purview of their moderation.

That problem would be the same whoever on the core team did whatever shitty thing, so the details are irrelevant. This is about processes and structures for handling incidents, not a single incident.

Zababa2• 5 years ago

There is no response. The more this story goes on, the more shady it sounds. It sounds like what happens when people have a big interpersonal conflict behind closed doors.

As top-level team leads, project directors to the Foundation, and core team members, we are actively collaborating to establish next steps after the statement from the Rust moderation team.
While we are having ongoing conversations to share perspectives on the situation, we'd like to collectively state that we are all committed to the continuity and long term health of the project.
Updates on next steps will be shared with the project and wider community over the next few weeks.

That seem like the usual corporate linguo.

techdragon• 5 years ago

I’m deeply concerned by the lack of statements indicating they intend to replace the moderation team with either new people once this is sorted out or with a new restructuring that shuffles the responsibilities into new places but clearly retains the supervision role the moderation team provided.

Zababa2• 5 years ago

I'm a bit concerned about the lack of statement and/or substance at all.

CRConrad4• 5 years ago

I’m deeply concerned by the lack of statements indicating they intend to ... clearly retains the supervision role the moderation team provided.

That looks like a partial misunderstanding of the problem: What the moderation team said was that under the current structure, they couldn't provide any such supervision role in regards to the core team.

So there is no such thing to retain; that's what the moderation team resigned in protest over. Their resignation was apparently the only way left to them to say that it needs to be not retained, but created.

erichocean• 5 years ago

What is Rust's "moderation team" supposed to do? What is its function?

rgrmrts• 5 years ago

Moderate the rust community. Uphold the code of conduct.

https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/moderation

pornel• 5 years ago

I guess this no-response-yet response is better than a complete silence or some quick dismissive excuse.

GiorgioG• 5 years ago

Let this be a reminder to the folks that love to hate on Microsoft (.NET Foundation screw-up from a few weeks ago.)

Open source projects are no more immune to asshole behavior than anything else.

This shouldn’t stop you from choosing Rust or .NET.

shrimp_emoji• 5 years ago

The reason I always favored open source projects was my assumption that they're immune to asshole behavior, a behavior which this news headline entails of the Rust core team.

kungito• 5 years ago

How would that assumption make sense? The projects are still made of people with egos and differing opinions

0xy• 5 years ago

After the Node incident, it's highly likely Ashley Williams is involved again due to her propensity for racism and sexism.

marvinvz• 5 years ago

If it turns out that she was involved or the reason for that, the rust foundation and core team will look really bad. And things usually get public over time. But right now it's just vage drama.

Nicksil• 5 years ago

After the Node incident, it's highly likely Ashley Williams is involved again due to her propensity for racism and sexism.

I didn't know what this was referring to so I looked it up.

Here's a Reddit thread which seems to be the genesis of the complaint (an archive link because the actual post was removed)

https://archive.md/VEtHu

Link to original Reddit thread

https://old.reddit.com/r/node/comments/6whs2e/multiple_coc_v...

NodeJS GitHub issue thread

https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/324

HN threads

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16085545

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15115989

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16073017

speed_spread• 5 years ago

Leaving of Mozilla and being adopted by the big players marked the end of the (successful) _technical_ experience that Rust had been up to here. But Rust has also been a _social_ experience, with it's built-in CoC and active community management. It seems like the end of the first experience also signed the end of the second, but without the concerned participants taking notice until now.

I would declare the social experiment also a success, since it allowed the community to grow and support the technology to it's next stage of development with a surprisingly low level of drama, considering the involved egos and passion required for such an effort.

I'm not sure what should follow next. I hope the Rust foundation can spawn the next iteration of the social experiment so that all that was learned in the first phase isn't lost to the cold wind of the new corporate heir's management.

Someone2• 5 years ago

What this is a response to: https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/671.

Even having read both, as an outsider, I wouldn’t know what’s going on.

In response to the moderation team resignation (Rust)

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