Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/08/11/viral-video-homeless-man-has-three-degrees-and-cant-find-a-job/

by ekm2 • 15 years ago

79 71 15 years ago

newsfeed.time.com

ig1• 15 years ago

A quick look at his linkedin profile shows a 17 year gap in his work history and a very vague sense of what skills he has, I imagine that's what giving him problems.

seagaia2• 15 years ago

That's possible. I wonder what the reason is, or if this Youtube thing isn't telling the whole story.

rjd• 15 years ago

Most of the time with sensational stories you only get the 'shock' side of the story. Like forgetting last years case Ted Williams (radio voice guy) was a drunk and drug abuser.

Or untold police brutality stories which neglect the office point of view. Not that I condone police beating the crap out of people, but I understand every one has a breaking limit, and often after watching those videos I think I wouldn't have lasted half as long as the cops did. But a cop having to face 3 abusive people in an uphill struggle to do his job... until he pulls out a baton and pacifies one or two ... is no where near a great story as a abusing his power.

Lots of homeless people have mental defects that can be hard to see at first. I wouldn't mind betting there maybe something else as well. Even something as simple as depression.

I suspect he has these going against him. Age , weight, race, long term unemployed, homeless, new city, industry knowledge which he probably hasn't kept unto date on, and drive... lets face it younger people have more drive to be prove themselves than older people.

Pretty hard to top of the pile when lots of other applicants wouldn't have that.

I'd say the best thing for him would be teaching, seems he has a warmth about him, proven kindness (with parents), seems intelligent enough, and as long as theres no mental defects. One year in a local community college and he'd be set. No doubt there will be an online effort to help this man out. And I'd chuck him a dollar to be a teacher.

reduxredacted4• 15 years ago

There is a bit of an obsession with telling the whole story in this thread and it's exactly what I'd expect out of HN readers (we're always skeptical, or maybe that's just me). The reality is that it's impossible to tell the whole story in 7 minutes 25 seconds.

I'm guessing the question really is: is what we're listening to and reading an honest portrayal of events. That's anybody's guess.

It's not the whole story, for sure. It's a story with details and facts chosen based on the biases of the folks covering it (I believe the business of news, particularly news magazines, is closer aligned with the entertainment industry ... having a story go viral increases pageviews, advertising dollars and subscriptions [I'm not implying malice, here, just trying to analyze perspectives]).

WoundedMarlin• 15 years ago

How do you make yourself more desirable if you have been out of work?

I am not homeless but not able to land work and have been working in a different industry for 5 years but want to get back in to what I went to school for which is Computer Engineering.

blackboxxx• 15 years ago

To make yourself more desirable to employers, I'd have personal projects that demonstrate your abilities.

I'm a freelance writer slash "creative". I've been that way for over five years. I also have creative projects and those have been generating revenue and opportunities for me.

It's not easy. I was homeless for several weeks about a year ago. Couldn't cover the rent. But I've done factory work for many years and I'd choose this any day.

EwanToo• 15 years ago

It's going to be hard, but open source is really your best friend here.

Personally I'd suggest finding a new project that's up and running with a very committed founder, and put a lot of effort into contributions.

If you pick something like openphoto, you'll be able to make a difference, make a good track record of work done by yourself, and if openphoto takes off, then you'd be in the perfect position to get hired to work on it.

oscardelben• 15 years ago

I doubt his three degrees have anything to do with the fact he can't find a job.

Jarred• 15 years ago

This might make me sound inconsiderate, but in his position I would take nearly any job I could just to make some money. He can't afford to be picky about what he gets if he's living on the streets.

sudont2• 15 years ago

It does.

I was unemployed for a year and a half, and even Wal-Mart wouldn't hire me.

barik4• 15 years ago

One trick to avoid this gap is to re-enroll in school, at least until you can secure work again. You may have to take loans in the short term, but depending on the loan the interest may be 0% or near 0% while you are out of work. You might even learn topics that will make you even more attractive as an employee, and refresh your memory on topics that you've forgotten about while being out of work (for some reason, these obscure, academic questions seem to be common interview questions). In addition, there are practically always events on campus that offer free food, so you can minimize meal costs this way.

I've had several colleagues in the past few years do this. They'll join a master's program at a University somewhere. The colleagues will suddenly go from unemployed to a rising student with prior, verifiable work history. Once they get a job, repaying the loan is fairly easy, especially if it's a state school.

muhfuhkuh• 15 years ago

Yeah, that's what I don't get. Everyone says "hey, all these unemployed could work at McDonald's". The last time they had that massive hiring event millions showed up to fill 50000 positions.

No one wants to admit that nearly every business except tech is sitting on cash and just working their existing employees to the bone because they can (and because it's more profitable). The real hiring is overseas, as it should be.

People like the guy in the video and 99ers may need to start their own businesses if they can't find anything. Necessity is the mother of invention (and entrepreneurship).

hypersphere• 15 years ago

I can see why a hiring manager at a place like that wouldn't want to hire someone highly over-qualified, someone who would be likely to leave at the first viable opportunity of something better (and an opportunity they'd actively be seeking).

gavinlynch3• 15 years ago

I don't find it inconsiderate. the Parent poster is simply suggesting that if you don't have a job, and desperately need a job, take any job you can get.

He did not disparage people who become unemployed, it is obviously something that happens to qualified, hard-working people every year for various reasons.

I agree with the poster's sentiments. If I was ever in a position where I was unemployed, I would take whatever job I could find if the alternative was becoming homeless. Obviously, if Wal-Mart turned me down, that is not a job I would be able to take.

justin_vanw2• 15 years ago

Who wants to make a wager, that he has a serious substance abuse or mental health problem? The other issue is that he refuses to leave Cleveland. There are no jobs for an electrical/acoustical engineer in Cleveland, and there probably won't be for a very very long time, if ever, and the effect of race in a city like Cleveland is far more likely to come up than in a less racist area.

I also get very suspicious when someone has multiple degrees at the same level, in this case 2 master's degrees. I can't put my finger on what it is, but people who collect degrees seem like they are more often completely incompetent.

It's not societies fault that someone can't find their ideal job in a dying city, and it's not news.

benmccann• 15 years ago

He's in Boston - not Cleveland.

yuvadam2• 15 years ago

Geez. I know America is nowhere close to being a socialist country, but one cannot be so oblivious to the fact that something here is rotten from the foundation. Have we lost all solidarity? Hell, even basic decency?

Yes, maybe this specific person is not a good example. Maybe he has suffered mental health issues or substance abuse (though I find the accusation appalling). Maybe he does suffer a severe lack of skills.

But the fact that a highly-educated person had to sell all his assets in order to support his parents, and consequentially is now job and homeless, says something about society.

So, yes, it is societies problem. No one is to guarantee that tomorrow that person will not be you or me. And from that perspective, things look a hell of a lot different.

yuvadam2• 15 years ago

I feel a strong urge to say one more thing.

I live in Israel, and right now the majority of the Israeli people are uprising [1] (democratically and peacefully) against the absurd cost of living that we have been suffering for the past 20 years. Thankfully, our macro economy numbers are good, and people have jobs - but raising a child or buying a house is nothing short of impossible nowadays.

Over the past month the entire Israeli public has been asking itself "Why do we deserve this? If our country is doing so well, why are we struggling from paycheck to paycheck? If things are so good, why is everything so bad?"

Eventually, people will begin to ask questions, and demand answers from their government. Once that happens - and by looking at recent global events, it will - prepare for radical economical and political change.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_housing_protests_in_Israel

michaelchisari2• 15 years ago

Maybe he has suffered mental health issues or substance abuse

Given the severe lack of social services in the US for mental health or addiction, I wouldn't fault him for either of those.

sliverstorm• 15 years ago

Do you have something against folks who double major in their bachelor's then?

burgerbrain3• 15 years ago

In cases where they complement each other, no.

Now if they were earned at different times, perhaps even different universities, and don't seem to complement each other, I agree that I find something off about it.

An exception to this (this is a very loose sense of "off", there are many factors going into it) could be someone who's first degree is a liberal arts degree and their second is something more useful for getting jobs like an engineering degree.

_zeos_• 15 years ago

incompetence is relevant to what you want (or is needed) to achieve and beyond

americandesi333• 15 years ago

I think what he could do to close that gap is re-train himself. There are unemployment agencies in every city (called WIB) that provide free training resources to people who are looking for jobs.

But the biggest deterrent is the motivation to go out there and really push hard to make yourself relevant. He did couple of times mention the 'color' and it seems that he is feeling like a victim. In order to succeed, you need to get out of that mentality and start thinking positively about the value you can bring to an org.

dave_sullivan3• 15 years ago

There's a lot of people out there in really bad situations that aren't likely to get better. It really bums me out when I consider what it would be like to be 55 and homeless in Cleveland.

Still, the article mentions he sold all his stuff and spent his savings on paying for his parent's house. First, that means he doesn't have to live on the streets currently (his parents have a house), and second he should have just let his parents go bk then help them get set up again. That's for starters, and there's probably a few other things he could do that would make a big difference in getting it together.

dwc• 15 years ago

Three degrees. That could mean he's industrious, curious and driven. Or it could mean he had money enough to delay entry into doing something meaningful in life, and too little drive to do anything but. I know both kinds. Would anyone hazard a guess about which group has a better employment outlook?

I don't mean to belittle the very real problems in both the job market and our education system. I do mean to quibble when journalists try to find extreme examples where commonplace examples abound.

reduxredacted4• 15 years ago

Having managed (paid) interns and full time employees picked right out of graduation (I'm in a somewhat experimental role and that means the only staff I'm going to get is junior level), I can't possibly restate the importance of not delaying entry into doing something meaningful in life, if I take your meaningful to mean advancing your experience in your desired field.

The best employee I've ever had wasn't a Computer Science or MIS major (I believe he switched later). It was an accident that I even got his resume (coincidentally, a staffing intern at my company mixed it up. It was due for the bin [HR and staffing are for another rant, I'll leave it alone this time]). He was a brilliant guy. He interned for the half of the summer. In a few weeks he went from zero experience with databases and directX, to developing a solution using both technologies (he wasn't a magician, the end-product was good, but required some reworking of code due to his applying knowledge from one language to another, but it was done, usable and with a bit of work supportable). We offered him a full time position on the spot and he declined (he wanted to be in academia at the time, but ended up in industry a few years later).

Degrees are important. Experience is important. Intelligence is important, but being intelligent and having degrees doesn't equate to success or the deserving of success. I used to work with a guy who was the sort of guy you wanted to go out to lunch with (if you're a geek). Very intelligent, had all sorts of ideas, could talk about anything related to his field (networking) and would challenge you to think about things differently. Unfortunately, he could talk all around theory, but he couldn't execute. It was a strange sort of inability to choose between several equally good approaches to solving a problem. Every project he worked on got about 3/4 to completion and then fell flat into failure.

And of course, the story of my two coworkers is certainly not a rigorous statistical understanding of the world. It's my observation mixed with bias. But it's worked so far in finding good, terribly unqualified individuals that can produce far more than they take away from me in time-spend.

picklestime• 15 years ago

Very intelligent, had all sorts of ideas, could talk about anything related to his field (networking) and would challenge you to think about things differently. Unfortunately, he could talk all around theory, but he couldn't execute. It was a strange sort of inability to choose between several equally good approaches to solving a problem. Every project he worked on got about 3/4 to completion and then fell flat into failure.

Almost textbook description of ADHD. ref: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2877100

Anechoic4• 15 years ago

He has a Masters in Electrical Engineering and Acoustics from Purdue University (a very good acoustics school) and he can't find a job in the Boston area (home of a dozen or so acoustical consulting companies, another dozen or so loudspeaker manufacturing companies including Bose, Boston Acoustics & Loud Technologies), several active audio & acoustical engineering associations (including Bosotn chapters of the ASA, AES, SMPTE and IEEE), and several schools with strong audio, acoustical and/or media programs (MIT Media Lab, BU, Northeastern, Berklee)?

Something does not compute. I highly doubt it's racism (I'm black and very active in the acoustics community in Boston and have witnessed basically no intentional racism). Everyone I know out that way is very busy and a lot of firms have hired recently so it's not a matter of employers not willing to hire.

There's either more to the story here or people are missing out on a potentially fantastic hire.

edit: I've put out some feelers to see if any knows or might be interested in speaking with this guy.

Locke1689• 15 years ago

Fundamentally, I think it's bad to make sweeping judgements or generalizations from one example, especially one which is incomplete. The main issue that I see is that we can't just rule out statistics here. If there's a one in a million chance that, of any given person in the United States, they will be eminently qualified for a job and still unable to find one (probably due to a series of unlikely random incidents), we should actually statistically expect about 200 people in the United States to be in this situation. This doesn't actually say whether or not the system is broken -- this statistic could be both true and, say, Pareto optimal for society.

Basically, analyzing large, complex systems (especially economic and social systems) is hard and we should try to do it with an element of formality.

Anechoic4• 15 years ago

Maybe. The thing is, it's very unusual these days to find someone who has actual training in acoustics. Usually firms find folks with formal training in related disciplines (mechanical engineering, electrical engineer, physics, etc) and then teach them acoustics on the job.

Whenever someone comes along with actual acoustics training and/or experience, companies are usually falling over themselves to hire the applicant since the hire can be effective from day one.

Perhaps Mr. Johnson doesn't want to do acoustics and hasn't applied for an acoustic position. Or it could be transportation problems or something logistical. But I have a hard time believing that he applied in the field and no one in the Boston area would hire him.

javaecc1233• 15 years ago

Well. He's 55 yrs old and has been out of work for sometime. At that age no one expects to train you so you have to have had a great track record, be practically a guru and be bringing something to the company to get hired over a recent graduate. His race might play a part in potential employers being doubtful that he has those skills (probably a bit understandable given the number of black acoustical engineers) or not being able empathize with his situation.

gavinlynch3• 15 years ago

I don't really understand this comment. Why would it be understandable that some employers would not believe that he is a capable black acoustical engineer?

And even if they did, wouldn't it take maybe 5 minutes worth of correspondence to figure out if he was or was not? Unless you are saying there is rampant racism in the acoustical engineering industry to the point that he would not even advance to a correspondence level with a hiring manager based soley on the fact that he is black.. Which I would doubt.

Anechoic4• 15 years ago

>Well. He's 55 yrs old

I doubt that would be much of an issue, especially since a lot of the acousticians in the Boston area are around that age and I can think of at least a half-dozen Boston-area hires in that age group.

>and has been out of work for sometime

If I had to guess, I'd say this is the big issue.

>His race might play a part in potential employers being doubtful that he has those skills

Maybe, but again I've seen no evidence of this around Boston-area acousticians. I've certainly can't remember ever being on the receiving end of it.

yaakov343• 15 years ago

* Well. He's 55 yrs old *

He's 55 years old now. He was 33 in 1990, when he stopped working (according to him). The idea that an electrical engineer and physicist with tons of programming experience to boot, and with references from Lockheed as a Senior Research Engineer, could not get a job from 1990 to 2007, is just not plausible, even if he took a lot of time off to care for his parents. The story is not reasonable, and there are parts of it we're not hearing and parts that have been distorted (I doubt he really got to Dartmouth at age 16).

People pass this along as two things: a) a sad personal story, and b) a commentary on the sad state of the country. The fact is that it fails as both. As a personal story, it is implausible and clearly incomplete. I feel like I am being pulled around by the nose. I feel like I am hearing only one source, and that source is less than totally truthful. The real story is probably still sad, but it's probably different and less pithy. Right now, I just feel like I am being manipulated.

And it clearly has nothing to do with the state of America in 2011, since this man's problems existed decades before, and in an excellent economy.

Mz2• 15 years ago

There's either more to the story here or people are missing out on a potentially fantastic hire.

I've taken a class on homelessness. The short version is that it is usually rooted in intractable personal problems: Chronic health issues, abusive childhoods, mental illness and so on.

That is not intended to blame the victim. That's just reality: Employers pay you for value added to the business, not as a charitable act. If you have very big personal issues, you may not be very employable. I have a chronic illness myself and was very fortunate to be able to be a homemaker and military wife for a very long time. The good medical coverage from my husband's career was a godsend and it was helpful to be able to claim "homemaker" instead of "unemployed bum for 20 years" after I was finally diagnosed and well enough to work. I still had a hard time getting a job at all and I am still "underemployed" if you go by my education/skills. But until very recently, the job I currently have was all I had energy for. Anything more demanding would have gotten me fired.

I will also add that my understanding is that there is a general rise in homelessness, which points to systemic problems. That should concern everyone, not just folks like me.

maren• 15 years ago

Definitely more to the story... but still a fascinating look at how degrees don't mean everything (obviously)

yaakov343• 15 years ago

I also suspect there is more to the story, and I would like to point out that he was unemployed from 1993 to 2007, which is a period that included an immense economic boom. I don't see how the current tottering state of the economy explains his inability to find any employment at all from 1993 to 1999, which was as good a time for an engineer to be hired as I can imagine. I was there in that job market, and there was a constant problem of recruiters cold-calling people by randomly dialing company numbers and trying to tempt them with higher salaries. There were all sorts of company policies to stop that from happening, including assigning phone numbers out of a really large space and making incoming calls go through the receptionist. For a physicist and acoustical engineer with computer programming experience to not be employed at all in the late 1990s - sorry, blame it on anything you want, but don't blame it on the American economy.

EDIT: also, that same LinkedIn profile claims he started his masters degree in Plasma Physics in 1972, when he would have been around 16. Come on people, engage some critical thinking here. You're not hearing the whole story, and you're not hearing it from a reliable source.

Anechoic4• 15 years ago

>I also suspect there is more to the story, and I would like to point out that he was unemployed from 1993 to 2007

This is an excellent point. I was working for a Boston-area acoustical consulting firm in the late 1990's and we had a hell of a time recruiting people. After an unwillingness to so so, the firm had to start giving out signing bonuses to attract candidates and still lost applicants to competing firms.

flatline• 15 years ago

He spent ten years liquidating all of his assets and caring for his aging parents until they passed on. I don't know that it explains the entire employment gap but it seems reasonable that he would be a tough sell for many companies: older, and despite the good education and prior employment history, his skills are bound to be rusty. He was deliberately not working during that period.

lisper2• 15 years ago

I made a feature-length documentary about four homeless people including one with a master's degree in psychology.

http://graceofgodmovie.com/

In his case there definitely turned out to be more to the story.

seagaia2• 15 years ago

What was the "more" to the story? I'm interested.

mgkimsal• 15 years ago

I didn't quite understand the story - he liquidated all his assets to buy his parent's home then moved in with them to take care of them. It sounded like he bought the house altogether. If so, why homeless? Could he not pay the taxes?

In any event, while his sentiments were laudable, I'm reminded of a Dave Ramsey saying - "you can't help someone from a position of weakness". I think it was DR, anyway. In other words, to be able to help someone financially, you need to be able to keep yourself financially strong. As crappy as that might have been what would have happened had his mom still been alive? He'd be on the streets with an elderly Alzheimer's parent.

I realize people can't predict the future, but I've got friends that are continually doing really dumb things with money for their kids and even grandkids, and are going broke (and beyond) in the process. I think it does little to help the kids learn a sense of responsibility. My parents both helped out some when I was growing up and migrating to adulthood, but never to the point where they put themselves at serious financial risk. I'm grateful for their help, but we all felt I needed to do most of it on my own, which I have.

reduxredacted4• 15 years ago

As crappy as that might have been what would have happened had his mom still been alive?

You are completely right when you're in the position to think rationally. My only thought is that ... it's his Mom. I'm a married man with a few kids and am the sole income provider for my family (by choice not circumstance). I would move heaven and earth to ensure my family (my bride and children) were taken care of. Were I single, I'd live on the street if it meant the difference between my mom being tossed out of her home or me being able to prevent that.

It's completely irrational behavior from a Dave Ramsey standpoint (I'm a fan of his), and I know that elderly care isn't a choice between "stay in your home" and "suffer/die in an alley with dementia", but it's difficult to make sound decisions when dealing with such a serious emotional circumstances. (case in point, I don't even know the meaning of living on the street, but I know what decision I'd make regardless).

There's a bit of hindsight at play here. When I decided to move out, my dad did everything he could to convince me to buy a house rather than rent (throwing your money away! Tax deductions!). From a cash flow perspective, it didn't make sense. I had no savings and would have had to game the system via several different types of loans, but from the conventional wisdom of the time, it was: your house will never decline in value. I rented and I'm glad I did. I'm now a homeowner with a simple 15 year fixed that's nearly paid off.

fractalcat• 15 years ago

To everyone who's saying his university entry at sixteen is implausible: actually, it's fairly common. I started uni at sixteen (B of Technology, RMIT). So did my best friend (BCS, UTS). My partner started at fourteen (BCS, U of Canterbury). Anecdotal yes, but it's not exactly unheard of.

glimcat2• 15 years ago

It is fairly common, but it was much less common.

glimcat2• 15 years ago

I love how Time decided to prepend the headline with "Viral."

mmatey• 15 years ago

Since when does having three degrees equate to being a good employee?

Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

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