What cats do when we’re not looking

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/22/hidden-world-cats-what-feline-friends-doing-when-were-not-looking

by dll • 5 years ago

64 89 5 years ago

berkes• 5 years ago

Are there any god GPS trackers for cats that people would advice?

The article mentions nothing about the setup or tech, and I'd love to find out what my cats are up to before they come home with another rabbit or bird (probably sleeping).

Traubenfuchs• 5 years ago

It does.

To answer this, I contacted Tractive, manufacturers of GPS trackers for cats and dogs.

ourcat• 5 years ago

How about an Apple Air Tag on a collar?

implements• 5 years ago

They’re not very ‘fine grained’, and only show last known location rather than a way-pointed path. Handy for finding a lost pet, though.

moehm• 5 years ago

I've actually had a tracker from Tractive for my cat for a year. It works.. okay-ish? Well enough?

It lost connection pretty regular, probably because she crawled thru some bushes or undergrowth. The battery lasted only 1 day, so every day we needed to catch her (In summer she doesn't come home except for maybe 1 hour a day or so?) and recharge the collar. The battery is not removable, so you have to take the whole collar from the cat and put it on again later. This was pretty annoying and we definitely got some scratches from her.

Though now I have a KML file with over 1mm data points, so this is very cool. But in the end the battery capacity was annoying and the daily recharge was too much of a hassle, so we didn't renewed our subscription.

They seem to have a new tracker generation, maybe the battery problem is already fixed? I don't know.

alphanumeric0• 5 years ago

I've had a pretty good experience with Pawtrack (https://pawtrack.com/). It's the smallest tracker I've found.

xkcd-sucks• 5 years ago

I'm prototyping a very small LoRa tracker because I don't want to pay for cell service and commercial lora trackers are too large. However it is more for tracking itself as the cat removes its collar at every opportunity

eric4smith3• 5 years ago

No need for GPS or cameras.

Cats are stone cold hunter killers. Almost brainless too. They kill anything that moves and is edible.

We all know cats that sometimes just kill for the sake of killing (practice??) and don’t even eat the prey.

It’s like the cats brain is just made for hunting and killing and very little else. Just watch how stupid cats are in cat videos — except when they are hunting.

I have a cat at one of my homes and one day I went up on the roof for some maintenance stuff. The roof was littered with the partially eaten bodies of almost every kind of animal that was edible and smaller than the cat.

Then when you come home she curls up in your lap and purr for your next cat video. Yes, even your docile house cat - put her outside and bam! Death and destruction. Thank god they don’t hunt us.

Don’t get me wrong - I love cats.

hellbannedguy• 5 years ago

They are predators, but not brainless.

I was working on my truck one summer night, and a cat introduced himself by meowing.

I immediately thought he was abandoned.

I took him to a vet, and no chip.

He arrived a few days later with a breakaway collar, and tag.

It turned out he was from a wealthy family, but didn't lije the dog.

I am very allergic to cats, but this guy tried everything in order to live in my house.

Every day for a week, I would wake up to a mouse on the porch, or in the house. (He figured out the dog door)

I later heard that he had at least 5 hones on the block that we're feeding him. One home bought fresh sardines. One was buying fresh Salmon.

Anyways---he was far from brainless. I think a mountian lion got him? I do miss him.

the-dude• 5 years ago

Unlike dogs, cats domesticate themselves. It is a win-win.

gadders2• 5 years ago

My nan always used to say "All cats have two homes."

Ours frequently goes next door to share supper with the cat there.

lordfrito• 5 years ago

Totally agree they are way more intelligent than we give them credit for. My cat story, apologies for the length...

The setup:

Friend has a small bungalow with two rescue cats that never go outdoors. One was from animal cops, rescued from a house with dozens of cats. I've watched the show, cats running everywhere. Cat was totally skittish around people. Usually kept to herself. Never let me pet her.

Anyhow one day a large mattress gets delivered and two really big guys take it up to the attic. Lots of commotion in the small cramped house.

About a half an hour after they leave we notice that the cat is missing. My friend thinks she must have freaked out, commotion probably reminded her of the rescue operation. We think the cat bolted outside as the front door was held open for a while. Anyhow my friend is in a panic, searching everywhere, outside, around the house, under the porch, neighbors yards, etc.

About half an hour later I give up and tell her that if the cat wants to come home she will in her own time.

Now the story...

I go inside and sit back down on the couch in the living room.

After a few minutes I notice her other cat (the friendly one) is standing in the arch between the rooms and meowing. Staring at me and just meowing, pretty verbal for a cat. Not sure what she wants. Try to get her to come to me but she won't.

Finally I go to get up but as I move towards the cat she moves away into the next room. sigh I sit back down.

The cat soon comes back into the archway and starts meowing again. I get up again. She moves away again. :/ I sit back down.

She comes back a third time, meowing. At this point I know something is up.

This time I get up and walk to where she was and stand there. The cat moved into the dining room, standing in the archway to the kitchen, stares at me and continues to meow.

I move towards her into the kitchen and stand there, she moves to the top of the basement stairs, stares at me and meows.

I move to the top of the stairs, she goes down the stairs, sits at the bottom, stares at me and meows.

I go down the stairs, she moves into the utility room, stares, meows.

I move into the utility room, she moves to the wash tub and stares at the washing machine, meowing

I look behind the washing machine, and I'll be damned the missing cat is huddled up in a ball hiding there.

Mind blown... that cat knew we were in a panic looking for the other cat, knew where it was, and was determined to communicate her location to us.

Judging from the results I'd say she was pretty effective in her communications. How frustrating it must have been for her not to be able to communicate in any other way!

I have a whole new respect for cats now.

jrimbault• 5 years ago

Yes, even your docile house cat - put her outside and bam! Death and destruction.

Except for those city house cats who are terrified of anything moving. I know one city house cat who's a real hunter killer and is able to actually lure, trap and kill pigeons from inside an appartment (without balcony), and when outside in the countryside kills absolutely everything.

But most city house cats I know are scared shitless of rodents and birds. My own cat is frequently "bullied" by ravens.

enriquto• 5 years ago

my house cat was even terrified of butterflies

eric4smith3• 5 years ago

Most city house cats have had the predator gene and instinct bred out of them.

tokai• 5 years ago

In its defence everything is bullied by ravens. Wolves, birds of prey, humans, etc.

nkoren• 5 years ago

You do not know cats very well. They exhibit an extraordinarily diverse range of behaviours, interests, and intelligence. I've had cats who were brilliant hunters and dumb as posts; I've also had cats who were wholly disinterested in hunting but showed considerable intelligence in terms of puzzle solving. And most cats I've known have been clearly motivated by social interaction as an end in itself. They put a lot of thought into this.

eric4smith3• 5 years ago

As someone who has owned many cats in the last 50 years - I stand by my statement.

I still love them though.

peakaboo• 5 years ago

I don't understand this attitude. Should they just go to McDonald's, or...?

KptMarchewa• 5 years ago

My cat just orders delivery by meowing loudly.

jaclaz• 5 years ago

In my experience they are far from brainless, but the how much brainy they are and how much they show their capabilities varies a lot.

I have had extremely smart and extremely dumb cats in my life, single example here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13272071

but that did not affect in any way their hunting/killing capabilities, that part is something that is independent.

armoredkitten• 5 years ago

Just watch how stupid cats are in cat videos — except when they are hunting.

Uhh, I dunno man, I saw a video of a cat playing the keyboard once, seemed pretty smart to me

lamp987• 5 years ago

Almost brainless? My cat figured out how to open doors and turn off lights, possibly by observing me. Its quite annoying actually...

bradknowles3• 5 years ago

We have door levers, not knobs. Levers are easier to use, and look prettier. They’re also a lot easier for cats to use.

We have had to baby-proof all of the door levers to all of the rooms we don’t want our cats getting into.

One cat in particular is very long, and can easily just stand up on his hind legs and wrap his paws around the door lever, and then pull. I’ve watched him do it. He was looking at me through the glass door, and moving slowly and deliberately as he did it. As if to say “Hey, dad — you know this thing here above my head? It’s called a door lever. Let me show you how it works.” Yes, he was just a kitten at the time, and still long enough to pull down on door levers.

A cat we had a number of years ago realized that the doors we had in our house in Belgium usually didn’t close too well, and she could reach under the door and pull it open. She did the same thing with cabinets in the kitchen. She taught her daughters how to do the same thing. We had to get a lot better about fully closing and latching our doors, so that she didn’t just pull them open all the time.

rufus_foreman• 5 years ago

> They kill anything that moves and is edible

I guess my cat considers me inedible.

rishikeshs• 5 years ago

I have 2 cats in the past, but I still think letting them out is the best way to have them!

slfnflctd• 5 years ago

This is highly dependent on your location.

From what I've been told, in the UK, shelters won't let you adopt a cat unless you agree that it will be allowed outside.

In the US, many/most shelters won't let you adopt a cat unless you agree that it will NOT be allowed outside.

Part of this is likely due to more cars being driven at higher speeds by inattentive people in the States (that's the main reason I don't let my cats out, I have seen way too much roadkill in my life and it sucks every time, those deaths are not always quick). Some other reasons not to let them out would be increased chance of disease, unwanted interactions with neighbors and the needless decimation of local wildlife.

idiotsecant• 5 years ago

Your neighbourhood didn't get a cat. You did. I don't enjoy your cat shitting in my bushes, scratching my car climbing up it, killing birds in my yard, or any of the other million annoying things cats do. You don't have an automatic right to make the entire neighborhood a playground for the pet you decided to have. If I find one in my yard I catch it and turn it into the humane society.

hombre_fatal2• 5 years ago

Your attitude reminds me of when I briefly used that Nextdoor social network until someone in my neighborhood started bitching at me for running past their house every morning, somehow ruining their day.

exolymph• 5 years ago

Welcome to living in proximity to other people, lol. The past would have been much worse for you since everyone would have had livestock, not just companion animals.

dwd2• 5 years ago

There was a number of BBC articles years back on the tracking of cats.

The maps of their ranges is quite fascinating:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22567526

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22821639

dspillett3• 5 years ago

There were other interesting findings too: in areas with high populations of cats they seem to settle into time-share arrangements with parts of their territory, they are not just purely "this is mine all the time".

This all gets messed up when new animals arrive or the habits if existing ones change, but it seems back into a new mostly stable pattern eventually.

I wonder what difference more human slaves being home all day over the last 18 months has made to all this, and how much disruption there is as we slip back into something more like older patterns.

dwd2• 5 years ago

The cats got shitty with us being in their territory all the time! We figure into their time-sharing as well, whether we know it or not.

They're not likely to care for us to not be there unless you change their meal time, reduce attention they want or go back to sending them outside all day. Our new feline took a particular liking to one of my boys when he was home from Uni and seemed put out when he left - she took to meowing in his room for the first week.

Dogs however love having the pack always there, and will be really put out as people go back to full-time office work.

notRobot2• 5 years ago

If anyone here decides to put a collar (with or without a tracker) on a cat, please remember to use a breakaway collar!

These are designed to break off (as opposed to choking the cat) if they get caught on a fence or branch or something.

They cost next to nothing - and can save your outdoor cat's life.

https://www.petmate.com/the-importance-of-quick-release-cat-...

gadders2• 5 years ago

Our outdoor cat wanders the fields round our house, and loses a collar every couple of months. Occasionally the neighbours find them and return them. One of them looked like it had passed through a cow first.

eatbitseveryday• 5 years ago

Necessary for indoor cats? I also don’t really understand why they are wearing a collar when it can break off - info gets lost and you may never find them.

BrS96bVxXBLzf5B• 5 years ago

It's a safety mechanism, not an intended outcome. If your cat gets lost ideally you end up with a wandering collared cat. But of the other possibilities, a wandering uncollared cat is preferable to the snagged alternative.

peanut_worm2• 5 years ago

Please keep your cats inside. Most ecosystems aren’t supposed to have near-apex predators running around killing everything. Outdoor cats kill over 2 billion birds a year.

hombre_fatal2• 5 years ago

That’s a bit cruel. One compromise is to put a small bell on their collar.

myroon5• 5 years ago

They mention a couple others in the article as well:

Bells on collars work, as does switching cats on to a premium, high-protein food diet, and giving them mental stimulation by playing with them in the morning. “Changing the cat’s food can reduce the amount of wildlife they kill by over a third,” says McDonald. “And playing with your cat, more than a quarter. These are positive actions for the cat that also have a positive outcome on their behaviour.”

skhr06802• 5 years ago

It depends on the cat. One of mine figured out her bell was noisy and broke it off every time.

tmountain• 5 years ago

For those that want to let their cats outside, bird safe collars are a good compromise.

https://www.birdsbesafe.com/

I have a cat that's an expert hunter, and he now wears one of those collars daily. The collar has reduced his catch to essentially zero (maybe 1-2 birds / year).

sgt• 5 years ago

I don't think the cat appreciates wearing one.

whocares2345• 5 years ago

Ecosystems also aren’t supposed to have uncontrolled prey populations, that are also being fed by humans. And since the number of other bird hunting predators is almost negligible anywhere humans live with their cats, this effectively balances put the lack of all other predators. If the cats wouldn’t kill those 2 billion birds we would drown in their shit and the resulting diseases.

djtriptych• 5 years ago

This is deeply wrong on many levels. Let's start with birds of prey eating other birds. It's not true that there are no other predators / checks on population growth. A lot of animals eat eggs as well. And humans do a pretty good job killing birds with windows.

peanut_worm2• 5 years ago

There are lots of bird hunting predators, mostly larger birds.

Do you think native bird populations would spiral out of control if they weren’t killed by cats? That is definitely not true I am not sure where you would have gotten that idea.

sebws• 5 years ago

Here's what the posted article had to say.

The RSPB says there is “no clear scientific evidence” that cats are causing bird populations to decline, but there is a perception among some British bird-lovers that cats are a menace and should be kept indoors. (In countries where cats are not a native species, such as Australia and New Zealand, they can have a devastating impact on wildlife.)
“I do feel that cats are an easy target,” says Bradshaw. “Skyscrapers kill more birds than cats do. But you don’t see people standing outside the factories where glass is made, saying: ‘You’re bird-killers.’”

octokatt• 5 years ago

Article in Nature (which is indirectly mentioned) saying cats kill 1.3 to 4.0 billion birds a year:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

JoeAltmaier4• 5 years ago

That's what cats do. That's how bird populations are kept in check.

A bird nest has what, 4 or 6 eggs? All those hatchlings are pretty much born to die in the first year. Because next year, the bird population is pretty much the same.

Cats can only catch birds when they are plentiful. When the population is back within bounds, cats find birds hard to find. Its a natural feedback cycle, been around for millions of years.

If the cats didn't do it, then most of those birds would starve the first winter. Is that more kind?

It's nice to feel positive thoughts about birds. But don't let that poison your feelings about cats, who are only doing their job.

throwaway123x2• 5 years ago

It's not just random birds it's random animals in ecosystems (esp in N America) not designed for predators like cats.

I strongly recommend this book for a deeper understanding: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CO34KU6/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... There are MANY species that have gone extinct or are approaching extinction because of cats.

mykowebhn3• 5 years ago

Without humans the number of cats in the wild would be vastly lower. Put another way, cat populations are at a level that would not be supported naturally without human intervention. As such, when we let our cats out an inordinate number of birds are "kept in check" as you put it.

This natural feedback cycle has been around for millions of years, just not the human element.

So to repeat: Please keep your cats inside!

Workaccount2• 5 years ago

You're on the right track, but domestic cats are not native species in most places.

burnished2• 5 years ago

The part you aren't mentioning is that in your model cat populations decrease when they cant find enough birds, which allows for the birds to repopulate, which allows for the cats to catch them and repopulate.

The feedback cycle is broken where the cats have ample food supplied and the cat population no longer depends on the prey population.

ratww• 5 years ago

Keeping the cat inside also dramatically increases the life expectancy of the cat. And it also decreases to almost zero the chance of it catching toxoplasmosis.

Indoor cats don't really care about the outside, so no, it's not cruelty, as long as it's well fed and properly stimulated.

jriot2• 5 years ago

My cat loves being outside, practically lives outside. He kills birds occasionally, but predominately hunts rabbits and squirrels. He also eats them on my porch. I have an indoor cat as well (she had he claws removed before we adopted her), and their muscular structures are entirely different, the outdoor cat feels strong, lean, and with the natural look of a cat. Cats aren't meant to be indoor animals - no animal, humans included, are indoor animals.

ZekeSulastin• 5 years ago

I’m sure the indoor cat having their toes chopped off (which is a procedure derided by pretty much everyone these days) has nothing to do with it.

tzs• 5 years ago

How about keeping the cat indoors in the daytime and letting it out at night? Cats are naturally nocturnal so the cat should be happy with that.

As far as I've been able to tell where I am, everything out at night that a cat would be able to reasonably encounter is either too big for the cat to kill or something that I would like the cat to kill (rats and mice).

Well, I'm not sure about the weird floating blob thing that my cameras caught one night. It was a white featureless blob just floating in front of the camera jiggling around. I would have dismissed it as some optical effect, maybe some light somewhere shining right at the camera...except it was casting a shadow. It seemed small enough for a cat to take, but I have no idea what defenses it had. Here's the footage of the blob [1].

Also not sure what this thing is or how it would do versus a cat [2].

[1] https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/DUGe2BbORXOIQyQgmD65wA....

[2] https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/x0vVRDOYSJK9oaGArGUVfA....

second--shift• 5 years ago

[1] appears to be a spider or some kind of bug, suspended by a web or fiber. It's really close to your IR leds, what's why it's blown out in white (overexposed) and casting a shadow into the distance.

danaris• 5 years ago

Cats are not naturally nocturnal. They are crepuscular—active during twilight and dawn.

And putting the cat out for the night is still very bad, both for the cat (average life expectancy of outdoor cats is something like 50-70% that of indoor cats) and for the environment (they are an invasive nonnative predator species).

mythrwy• 5 years ago

A reflective collar with a bell stopped my cat from killing birds.

She still "hunts" birds but hasn't been able to catch one since I put the collar on. I suppose eventually she will get one, but it helps immensely.

The only issue is about once every two months she loses the collar (it has break away elastic) and it has to be replaced.

simion3142• 5 years ago

I can't understand how such intelligent animals get killed by cars. I had young cats killed by cars but also one that was old with years of outside experience.

skhr06802• 5 years ago

Like a larger bipedal mammal, they forget to look both ways, or think that that they can make it across in time

BrianOnHN• 5 years ago

Humans? I mean, pedestrians get killed by cars all the time. So I wouldn't expect cats to be immune to them.

simion3142• 5 years ago

Could be, but in my village nobody was hit by a car, and many of my family cats were hit by cars. So the chances for cats to get hit are higher, so we could maybe think that is because of the small size ?

The thing is cats have good senses so I am wondering if they have an attention issue where something else distract them or they have a perception issue so they don't realize how closer a car is.

My current cat is afraid of cars, so I hope she stays away from the roads.

h2odragon2• 5 years ago

"Don't let your cats out" people are too citified for me to imagine.

I'd have to walk a half mile to get a neighbor in rifle range; we need outdoor catS, plural, to keep the rodent population dented around the house. It doesn't "keep mice out" to have 3 cats around, but it noticeably reduces their numbers and comfort level when they come after the sacks of feed.

We're down to one cat this summer, and she's aged past much hunting but is too dignified and settled for us to upset her with new kittens.

7402• 5 years ago

It's not just city people that keep their cats indoors. Almost no one where I live (suburban area in northern California) lets their cats out any more, because the cats get eaten by coyotes.

h2odragon2• 5 years ago

We have a pack of hounds, part of their job is to keep the coyotes off the livestock. We used to keep ~10 acres but have pulled back to about 1ac in the last couple of years. It's been hard on the grey foxes, they've actually moved up closer to our house so our hounds can cover their den; I dunno but they might not be to blame for the loss of at least one of the cats, too.

gumby2• 5 years ago

I can tell you what my cat is doing when I’m not looking: peeing in the bed. We’re trying to figure out what she’s trying to tell us — it’s a deliberate and abnormal signal from an aging cat.*

My experience with this cat is quite different from the article’s author’s. She is very sweet and meek and cuddly. But she has free access to the outdoors and until she was about 14 yo it was quite common to wake up to a cat asleep next to me but with half a rat or such in the bed.

Now she doesn’t go outside I’ve discovered that there are other cats in the neighborhood.

The good news is we have fresh bed linens every night. But I don’t think all that washing is good for the environment.

jquast• 5 years ago

It is common for a cat with urinary tract infection (UTI) to pee outside of the litter box, it may be trying to communicate, "it hurts when I pee", and choosing your bed because it thinks that's the best place to communicate with you https://bluecrossvethospital.com/cat-urinary-tract-infection...

gumby2• 5 years ago

Yeah, that’s the most common situation but she tested negative. We had been away and the cat sitter changed the food and litter so we reverted those, but it’s been a couple of weeks and she’s still suffering from something. We just can’t figure out what it is.

At least the good news is it’s deliberate. The plumbing is otherwise operating properly

Iwan-Zotow• 5 years ago

What kind of question is it?

What our feline friends do when we’re not looking - they are ruling the world!

What cats do when we’re not looking

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