Texas Battlefield 3 launch LAN bans women from attending

by Total_Meltdown • 15 years ago

68 66 15 years ago

Ronkdar3• 15 years ago

How exactly does one get into a launch party? Because if they're letting in 15 year-olds, sure there's going to be spiteful words. I always pictured these sorts of things having more mature crowds, but maybe I'm wrong.

My strategy, instead of excluding women, would be to make it a 21+ event (or maybe 18+), as well as kicking out anybody who doesn't abide by decency standards.

rick8883• 15 years ago

"kicking out anybody who doesn't abide by decency standards."

I think they probably figured out that that would mean kicking 99% of the LAN party out.

Ronkdar3• 15 years ago

Fair enough. In that case, stipulate that "Heated banter should be expected. If you can't handle that blah blah." Basically, there's better solutions than the shotgun approach.

dlikhten• 15 years ago

Are women incapable of understanding that people can be a-holes especially in an unregulated "sporting" competition? Lots of a-holes out there. Just put a warning, let women know, and offer advice if necessary. This is just plain ol' wrong.

It's EA so I'm already boycotting it. :P

ceejayoz3• 15 years ago

I suspect after a few percent get kicked out the other folks would improve their behaviour.

burgerbrain2• 15 years ago

Then it probably should not be held.

What kind of person even wants to host an event for a bunch of immature teenage gamers who can't handle the presence of a female?

yummyfajitas6• 15 years ago

We already have a nontrivial number of women only events in technology. What's wrong with a men only event?

cosgroveb6• 15 years ago

Because the only reason they are doing this is because they can't be bothered to force their male attendees to adhere to a standard of common decency. They would rather remove the need for them to be good human beings. Also it is tantamount to blaming women for the men's behavior.

It is not uncommon for minorities in any group to be encouraged to show solidarity (women only events in tech for instance) while the same is frowned upon for the privileged majority.

yummyfajitas6• 15 years ago

On the contrary, they are doing this because their female attendees have been (in the past) intolerant of the culture of computer gaming. Trash talk is not bad behavior - it's an equally valid form of expression used primarily in certain subcultures (basketball among black men, gaming).

This sort of behavior, particularly when used in what should otherwise be a safe space for a minority group traditionally excluded from society (young male gamers), serves only to exclude and already disadvantaged group.

Incidentally, do you also believe black men playing basketball (who often use language similar to gamers) are also bad human beings?

paperpunk• 15 years ago

Do we? What counts as "nontrivial"? No doubt there are exceptions, but women-in-tech events that I've experienced certainly don't ban men from attending (though generally not many men do attend).

DannoHung• 15 years ago

How many actually ban men from attending? More to the point, how many ban men because the attending women just can't help themselves from being insulting and degrading to previous male attendees?

Ronkdar3• 15 years ago

Many events that my school's Society of Women in Engineering group attend forbid men from entering. Ironically, the club president for a while was male, and he wasn't allowed to attend a banquet, despite his work promoting female entry into engineering.

urbanjunkie4• 15 years ago

What a laughable comment - I can only assume that a troll has hacked your account.

Define non-trivial in this context.

Cite some examples of female only gaming events.

Udo3• 15 years ago

> We already have a nontrivial number of women only events in technology.

To be fair, those make me uncomfortable as well. But there's a difference between "we're holding an exclusive event for group X only" and "group Y is banned because they have to be protected from group X who we want to be our only audience". There is also the power gap to consider, whether it is real or perceived doesn't matter. Holding an event for the perceived "underdog" is a lot less reprehensible than accommodating the suppressive views of a (minor but) "dominant" group. Also in this case the implied conclusion that "might makes right" ticks a lot of people off.

mbreese• 15 years ago

Because it's discriminatory and illegal?

nkassis• 15 years ago

It's not illegal at all. Why would it be illegal? It's a private event. It's ethically wrong to me but not illegal.

mcantor2• 15 years ago

The women-only events exist to provide more support for women in technology.

The intention behind men-only events is to avoid having to support women in technology.

cosgroveb6• 15 years ago

Let's also ban anyone with darker skin from attending because we know that the typical gamer can't help but use the "N" word too. Brilliant reasoning.

Edit: Did anyone downvoting me bother to read the article? This is exactly the reasoning they are using to ban women from this event.

Shenglong• 15 years ago

Countered - I was thinking sarcasm along these lines too.

aberkowitz• 15 years ago

You probably got downvoted because you repeated the article and didn't add anything. I come to comment threads for original discussion.

cosgroveb6• 15 years ago

I added an illustrative analogy that wasn't in the original article. Maybe it was too obvious? Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: Since we're getting pretty deep in the comments here and the timer is in effect... To joshuacc: I did miss that line. Looks like the parent here is right I didn't add anything to the discussion. Thanks!

NickPollard• 15 years ago

As far as I can tell, this is not in anyway affiliated with or sponsored by EA or DICE. Is that correct?

Just want to make sure people don't automatically leap on the BF3 link and blame the publisher or developer, when this appears to be a privately run event.

almost• 15 years ago

That is an important point and should be clarified in the blog post. Whoever organised this event are being (quite rightly I would say) made to look like massive douche-bags and it seems a little unfair for it to be people or organisations who aren't actually involved to the be ones getting the blame.

NathanKP• 15 years ago

From what I can see it looks like the event is being put on by an online forum called Powers Gaming. It also appears that because of the backlash they deleted their old information thread about the party, and recreated it today with nothing but a "Coming Soon" message.

Old thread: http://www.powersgaming.com/showthread.php?742-Battlefield-3...

New thread: http://www.powersgaming.com/showthread.php?785-Battlefield-3...

If I was EA or DICE I would not be happy with this negative buzz about the game, especially as it makes BF3 players look pretty bad. (Or at least this group of them.)

Udo3• 15 years ago

> women are disallowed from attending in order to protect them from misogynistic insults

Fundamentalist religious societies often use the same line of reasoning: women are not allowed to walk around unveiled or allowed to do pretty much anything because they are powerless and ostensibly have to be protected from society as much as society needs to be protected from the unrest their public presence causes. The deeper "logic" here is that women are held responsible for the abuse they are provoking just by being around, and also that they're somehow not mature enough to handle themselves.

This is exactly the same reasoning as banning, say, black people on the grounds that they might cause unrest among KKK attendees who might be present.

In one line: this is the most insultingly stupid thing ever and it's happening not only in Texas but all over the world. I just wish it didn't happen in so-called free societies at all.

gaius2• 15 years ago

So long as there are women-only gyms, scholarships, etc this argument falls a little flat. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it.

ajross2• 15 years ago

There are women who actually want to attend the LAN party (as evidenced by the fact that they used to be allowed, were present, and "caused problems"). Are there really men who really want to get into Curves? If that demographic exists, then sure: open the gyms!

But honestly, it seems like you're just nitpicking here because you don't want chicks at your LAN party. Some of us find that pretty hateful.

ugh2• 15 years ago

Reasons matter. Women-only gyms don’t style themselves as protecting men from women.

cmeranda2• 15 years ago

You could actually perceive women-only gyms and scholarships as a response to events such as this. How would you react to being told your presence caused bad behavior, and so you'd been disallowed? Why, you'd create a space from whence you couldn't be removed--by making yourself the only entity. However, that's not to say it is an ideal solution. Also, I've never really understood that aphorism, "Can't have your cake and eat it." WTF was the point of giving me the damn cake if I can't eat it?

Udo3• 15 years ago

I don't disagree entirely, women-only stuff usually pisses me off as well - I didn't mean to defend only one gender, I meant to imply that discrimination sucks either way. Just yesterday, Cory Doctorow deleted my comment on BoingBoing because I implied that this comic (http://boingboing.net/2011/07/24/sexism-flamewars-explained-...) is stupid and inflammatory.

That said, there are milder scenarios for discrimination and there are severe ones. This one is severe in its stupidity.

bostonvaulter2• 15 years ago

Just curious, but what do you think about Japan's women-only subway cars?

andreyf• 15 years ago

It basically is saying that the organizers either don’t want to put the effort into policing language at their event, or don’t trust the men to be mature and responsible enough to adhere to event policies.

I'm not sure if "or" is the right word there...

justathought• 15 years ago

Is this immature and inconsiderate of women and does it reflect poorly on the LAN? Absolutely. Are they within their right to do so? Absolutely.

People get up in arms about stuff like this because they're offended that people would so boldly exclude someone, but the key here is that it's a private event. Don't like it? Don't support them. Or, create your own private event with any rules you see fit.

As a nonreligious white male, I'm also excluded from minority scholarships, many religious private colleges, jobs with many religious organizations, being a waiter at Hooters, and plenty of other social groups, simply because of my personal beliefs or race or gender.

Women also can't join the Augusta National Golf Club (home of the Masters) for similar reasons as this, but I don't see that on the frontpage of HN.

nate_meurer• 15 years ago

> "it's a private event. Don't like it? Don't support them."

This is a classic refrain of apologists for bigotry. I belong to a country club that officially excluded blacks up until the 60's, and did so unofficially for years after. The policy changed under pressure from the community, which included bad publicity, public embarrassment, and disdain directed at individual club members from people on the outside. Public scorn for the organization prevailed over the objections of assholes who said, "it's a private organization! Go make your own country club!".

Eventually, Augusta may repent of gender discrimination due to similar pressure. And it still won't make the front page of HN because it has nothing to do with computers.

icebraining2• 15 years ago

I think that's the point: using social pressure instead of legal. Parent's statement - it being a private event - does not necessarily conflict with embarrassing and disdaining the members.

ajross2• 15 years ago

You last point doesn't follow. HN isn't a golf site. Certainly Augusta's policy has generated significant media attention.

And your broader points are just plain wrong: doing bad things in private doesn't make it OK. Doing things that are legal doesn't make them moral. Getting "up in arms about stuff" that doesn't directly affect you doesn't mean your opinions shouldn't be voiced.

nknight• 15 years ago

I'm at least as much within my rights to criticize sexist jackasses as they are to behave like sexist jackasses. Don't like it? Try not being a sexist jackass.

ugh2• 15 years ago

It’s certainly legal. I see not one person here calling for it to be illegal.

What is, however, equally legal, is to be outraged about it and to make noise about it. They can hold their event, I can yell at them for doing so. Both legal, so I’m not exactly sure what your point is.

Texas Battlefield 3 launch LAN bans women from attending

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