The FTC Votes Unanimously to Enforce Right to Repair

https://www.wired.com/story/ftc-votes-to-enforce-right-to-repair/

by donohoe • 5 years ago

626 84 5 years ago

"First, the Commission urges the public to submit complaints and provide other information to aid in greater enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and its implementing regulations. While current law does not provide for civil penalties or redress, the Commission will consider filing suit against violators of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to seek appropriate injunctive relief."

"Second, the Commission will scrutinize repair restrictions for violations of the antitrust laws. For example, certain repair restrictions may constitute tying arrangements or monopolistic practices—such as refusals to deal, exclusive dealing, or exclusionary design—that violate the Sherman Act.8 Violations of the Sherman Act also violate the prohibition on unfair methods of competition codified in Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act. "

We've had these laws on the books for a long time. I'm not confident that they're going to be effectively applied, unless the FTC has significantly increased in size and capability recently.

sam345• 5 years ago

Yes, I don't see this doing much. There are no federal right to repair laws to enforce. And I think that's a good thing as burdening manufacturers with interpreting piles of regulations requiring a team of lawyers to figure out is a sure way to kill small manufacturing start-ups, create moats around big manufacturers that have the lawyers and resources to handle right to repair requirements, and kill innovation.

wtallis• 5 years ago

This looks like a completely generic anti-regulation comment. Have you given any consideration to what specific behaviors would likely be targeted by right to repair regulations, and how that overlaps with the business practices of start-ups and other small manufacturing companies?

Small companies that can't afford lawyers to interpret federal regulations probably also can't afford lawyers to go after customers who don't choose to pay for the premium service plan, and probably also can't afford to devote engineering resources to developing their own hardware DRM systems.

R0b0t12• 5 years ago

You are seeing it incorrectly. If I buy a thing and then it remains broken because the manufacturer made specific choices, they should be forced to give me my money back.

rowanG077• 5 years ago

It's really not that hard. You are wrongly assuming these regulations are complex and hard to implement. They are really not.

elil17• 5 years ago

Can anyone explain what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does to protect the right to repair?

dataflow4• 5 years ago

I've heard it makes it illegal for vendors to void a warranty merely because you used it in an 'unauthorized' fashion. i.e. it puts the burden of proof on them to show that your modifications actually damaged the product. This protects peoples' right to repair by ensuring that they don't (effectively) get retaliated against through warranty invalidation when they get their products repaired by 'unauthorized' parties.

I think the relevant clause might be 15 U.S.C. § 2304 (c) but I'm not sure: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/2304

The enforcement of this act has been quite awful in the past, so I guess they're now planning to do a better job of it.

nrp• 5 years ago

The FTC themselves put up a highly readable overview of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for business that also provides insight on the consumer impact: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/bus...

I captured some highlights from it earlier this year while crafting a warranty policy for a new product:

FTC: In addition, it is permissible to disclaim warranty coverage for defects or damage caused by the use of parts or service you didn’t provide. Here is an example of a permissible provision in that circumstance:

* Necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company. Damage caused to the AudioMundo Stereo System by you or any non-authorized third party, however, may void this warranty.

FTC: There is one permissible modification of implied warranties, however. If you offer a "limited" written warranty, the law allows you to include a provision that restricts the duration of implied warranties to the duration of your limited warranty. For example, if you offer a two-year limited warranty, you can limit implied warranties to two years. However, if you offer a "full" written warranty, you cannot limit the duration of implied warranties. This matter is explained in Titling Written Warranties as "Full" or "Limited".

FTC: The Act allows warranties to include a provision that requires customers to try to resolve warranty disputes by means of the informal dispute resolution mechanism before going to court. (This provision applies only to cases based upon the Magnuson-Moss Act.) If you include such a requirement in your warranty, your dispute resolution mechanism must meet the requirements stated in the FTC's Rule on Informal Dispute Settlement Procedures (the Dispute Resolution Rule). Briefly, the Rule requires that a mechanism must:

FTC: The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act requires that every written warranty on a consumer product that costs more than $10 have a title that says the warranty is either "full" or "limited" (The Act calls these titles "designations.") The title is intended to provide consumers, at a glance, with a key to some of the important terms and conditions of a warranty.

* You do not limit the duration of implied warranties.

* You provide warranty service to anyone who owns the product during the warranty period.

* You provide warranty service free of charge.

* You provide, at the consumer's choice, either a replacement or a full refund if, after a reasonable number of tries, you are unable to repair the product.

* You do not require consumers to perform any duty as a precondition for receiving service, except notifying you that service is needed, unless you can demonstrate that the duty is reasonable.

* You are not required to make your entire warranty "full" or "limited" If the statements above are true about the coverage on only some parts of your product, or if the statements are true about the coverage during only one part of the warranty period, then your warranty is a multiple warranty that is part full and part limited.

FTC: The warrantors who choose the online method to provide their warranty terms must supply in the product manual, or on the product or product packaging, the internet address where the consumer can review and obtain the specific product’s warranty terms, as well as the phone number, postal mailing address, or other reasonable non-internet based means for the consumer (or seller) to request a free copy of the warranty terms.

FTC: The Guides advise that, regardless of the price of the product, advertising terms such as "satisfaction guaranteed" or "money back guarantee" should be used only if the advertiser is willing to provide full refunds to customers when, for any reason, they return the merchandise.

* The Guides further advise that an ad mentioning a satisfaction guarantee or similar offer should inform consumers of any material conditions or limitations on the offer. For example, a restriction on the offer to a specific time period, such as 30 days, is a material condition that should be disclosed.

elliekelly2• 5 years ago

See the section titled “What the Magnuson-Moss Act Does Not Require” of the FTC’s “Businessperson’s Guide to Federal Warranty Law”[1] to understand why this is not even close to “enforcing right to repair”. Aside from the fact that the FTC can’t enforce a right to repair law that doesn’t exist, the promise to enforce the Magnuson-Moss Act doesn’t even scratch the surface of what right to repair aims to accomplish. For example, farmers who have famously campaigned for right to repair for years (decades?) aren’t covered by the Act because their equipment is for commercial, not consumer, use.

Edit: Even though I think it’s beyond ridiculous to paint this as “right to repair” I am absolutely going to report Microsoft’s Xbox to the FTC for their egregious Magnuson-Moss violations. Maybe that stupid sticker will finally disappear.

[1]https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/bus...

donmcronald• 5 years ago

People have no idea how nasty serialization of parts is going to get if it isn't stopped by new legislation. You'll be lucky if you don't have to buy your socks and shoes from the same vendor in 2030 :-(

dataflow4• 5 years ago

The issue isn't merely the same vendor, but having to buy parts bundled together. Good luck replacing your hard drive/RAM/whatever separately from the rest of your machine without blessing from the manufacturer.

R0b0t12• 5 years ago

The commercial exception is very strange. So I can simply say my product is intended for commercial use only and then ignore the law, regardless of actual end use?

Is this the real reason why "commercial grade" is a thing?

closeparen• 5 years ago

Consumer protection is not really concerned with B2B power struggles.

colechristensen2• 5 years ago

The premise is that consumers do not have the resources or leverage to adequately protect themselves (before and after purchase) from businesses. The premise doesn't always match the reality that imbalance still often exists.

"commercial grade" is usually just marketing BS.

AussieWog935• 5 years ago

I am absolutely going to report Microsoft’s Xbox to the FTC for their egregious Magnuson-Moss violations. Maybe that stupid sticker will finally disappear

I sell video games and consoles for a living, and probably repair about 20-30 of them each month.

Based on my experience, the reasons that Microsoft don't want you poking around in your Xbox when it's under warranty are completely valid.

For any console that hasn't been tampered with, the fault is almost always one of only two or three things that can be diagnosed nearly instantly and repaired in around 15-30 minutes with a near-100% success rate.

For a console that has been tampered with by an end-user, suddenly the list of things that could have gone wrong multiplies by an order of magnitude. The diagnostic procedure goes from a simple 1:1 mapping of symptom to fix to a broad tree of debugging steps. The total process can easily take multiple hours and end up nowhere, depending on how many YouTube videos and Reddit threads the previous owner followed blindly.

Of course, the consumer is not going to admit that they're an idiot who transformed their console from a simple fix to something that's beyond economic repair, so either Microsoft has to provide them with a brand new machine or they will face legal action/scathing reviews online.

Short of warranty stickers, what are Microsoft to do?

gchamonlive2• 5 years ago

Short of warranty stickers, what are Microsoft to do?

Make opening their products accessible so that people can do it without damaging what they own. PCs are like that. Car parts have no such warranty stickers (that I am aware of).

Stickers are much more cultural than actually preventing damage. Furthermore, you can have stickers that decay over time and void your warranty without you even touching them (those nefarious apple humidity stickers for instance). It is entertaining to see Steve from gamer's nexus bashing warranty stickers at every opportunity.

mycall• 5 years ago

The right to repair also means if you break it, you own both halves. It is the right to risk. If I want to run SteamOS on an Xbox, let me try at least. If I succeed, let me resell the modified form. Buyer Beware in the social network age. Don't make that illegal.

colechristensen2• 5 years ago

For any console that hasn't been tampered with

Why shouldn't I be able to "tamper" with something that I own?

If they weren't so hostile to modification and repair, the failure rate of people trying to do things themselves would go down quite a lot.

guerrilla3• 5 years ago

So? Charge more. It's none of yoir business. Also, don't call them idiots. They took a risk for a reason, which is entirely rational.

seer• 5 years ago

What you say is very valid - You get stuff you own and under warranty repaired for cheaper.

But if that all is true, wouldn’t it be better if that list of problems/solutions were forced to be public? And people would be left to try, if they wanted to, to fix it themselves?

I personally think Governments should encourage this kind of endeavors from their citizens as that fosters the kind of people who could become better innovators and ultimately benefitting all.

Otherwise you benefit the company that produced it and maybe licensed repair shops. I know it’s supposed to benefit the consumer in the end for cheaper prices, but I have a feeling this is not what ends up happening and corporations and middle men eat those profits.

If there is one thing cursory observation of global economics makes obvious, it is that states that have more entrepreneurs and innovators become the best to live in in the long term, and I would imagine they would attempt to craft their laws to encourage that.

ballenf• 5 years ago

Your example makes the opposite case: it seems trivially easy to see whether a failure is the result of user error (legitimately invalidating the warranty) or inherent defect/failure.

asiachick• 5 years ago

In other words, it's possible someone at Wired was paid or duped into making an article that suggests "It's all good now, no need to keep fighting for the right to repair"

lordlimecat2• 5 years ago

Is the sticker actually a violation of Magnusson-Moss?

They cannot enforce what the sticker says, but lying is not necessarily illegal.

elliekelly2• 5 years ago

It’s not necessarily a Magnuson-Moss violation (though it could be, if repair service and parts aren’t provided for free) but because the “warranty void if removed” is always untrue it’s an “unfair or deceptive business practice” prohibited by Section 5 of the FTC Act.

rubyist5eva3• 5 years ago

Silly rabbit, you can't enforce laws or protect rights that don't exist.

xs• 5 years ago

Oh wonderful. So that means John Deere can drop all the lawsuits against farmers who try to repair their own tractors since farmers didn't break any law. Right?

rubyist5eva3• 5 years ago

Farmers don't have the right to compel John Deere to open their source code.

temp8964• 5 years ago

Let's say there is a right to repair and it gets perfectly enforced, doesn't this change the current business model of certain products which heavily relies on repair to profit? Wouldn't it just make those products more expensive to purchase?

lukevp• 5 years ago

Well, with automotive, the main profit center of dealerships is the service dept. the manufacturer and the dealer are different, and can adapt to the demand of each of the respective roles. More demand for cars but more self-repair means a bigger manufacturer and smaller/fewer dealerships, not that the product cost itself needs to change. I think similarly a company’s size if it’s based on selling support is based around the demand for that support plus the profitability that’s possible to sell it for before there is competition for 3rd parties to provide that support. Kinda like red hat, they made money off of support but anyone could support Linux or red hat systems, so there was a market force keeping them from charging too much for support because other vendors could undercut them.

commoner• 5 years ago

Not necessarily. If a device were repairable, users would be more likely to repair it when it breaks instead of replacing it with a new one. This reduces demand for new devices and pushes the price downward.

On the other hand, a device that is repairable has a longer lifespan than the same device if it were not repairable. The longer lifespan adds utility and perceived value to the repairable device, which would increase demand and push the price upward.

It's hard to say whether the net result would be a higher or lower price. It would depend on the product and the market.

lupire• 5 years ago

This reduces demand for new devices and pushes the price downward.

That's not right.

In the common case of a multivendor industry where production is not limited by resource constraints, reduced demand raises prices due to economy of scale.

inglor_cz• 5 years ago

I wonder if Right to Repair is going to cover creation of updated firmwares for abandoned products.

Old firmwares are full of known and exploitable holes.

bluGill3• 5 years ago

Will it also have a non-exception for bypassing pollution controls? For cars that seems to be what people who want to change the firmware are really trying to do in every case I've seen. (I'm not claiming all cases are trying this, just every one that I've dug into)

sokoloff2• 5 years ago

I'm an auto enthusiast and have modified some of my cars over the years. All I'll admit to is that all my current cars meet all emissions standards to the best of my knowledge, but that may have been less true for cars I've owned in the past.

I've never had the intention of bypassing a pollution control device. What's the point in that (coal rolling idiots aside)? What I have had is the intention to improve torque, power, sound, durability, or economy (what I actually care about) which sometimes has the inherent side-effect of changing the pollution profile to be different than what the manufacturer originally shipped. But to say that I'm "really trying to [bypass pollution controls]" is at least one step removed from the actual facts.

I also think it's at least a little bit amusing that I can run a 65/66 Mustang with nothing more than a PCV valve (which is at least as much for my convenience in keeping the outside of the engine oil-free as it is for emissions), but in some states I can't put a cold air intake on a 2020 Honda.

koilke• 5 years ago

https://archive.ph/O7sgl

bharathlohray• 5 years ago

Unless the law mandates the release of a service manual & software, the law is lip service. I don't mind if the service manual & software are released after a few years. But they need to be proofed against companies going belly up - like file compileable & modifiable code with FCC FTC or similar agencies to be released after n years.

neycoda• 5 years ago

Yay!

The FTC Votes Unanimously to Enforce Right to Repair

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