The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

https://restofworld.org/2021/palestine-social-media-silence/2

by 2939223 • 5 years ago

419 207 5 years ago

tiku3• 5 years ago

"For months, the 23-year-old el-Kurd twins had become the faces of Palestinian resistance in Sheikh Jarrah, broadcasting on Twitter and Instagram how they and seven other families refused to be forcibly expelled from their homes by Israeli settlers. "

So there was not really a problem with social media then.

I am hearing that recordings of violence got silenced, thats not weird. If i post a violent video of something, changes are that they are muted also.

ComputerGuru• 5 years ago

So there was not really a problem then.

There wasn’t a problem until there was. Just because they weren’t silenced until the issue gained global notoriety outside of the social media bubble doesn’t mean there is no problem.

ljasdas4• 5 years ago

The issue is that the social media platforms specifically target silencing Palestinian content. Both Twitter and Facebook attributed it to technical bugs [1] [2] while they kept hiding the content.

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/palestinian-facebook-...

[2] https://soyacincau.com/2021/05/17/instagram-twitter-palestin...

tiku3• 5 years ago

Well they say automated systems did it, could be. Especially if the social media teams or other supports from Israel are constantly reporting (violent) content, then that content would be flagged/deleted etc.

slipframe3• 5 years ago

I am hearing that recordings of violence got silenced, thats not weird. If i post a violent video of something, changes are that they are muted also.

This is a good reason to mourn the demise of liveleaks. For as gross as much of that content was, I think our society still needs a way to publish videos that make advertisers uncomfortable.

mcguire2• 5 years ago

"One of the charges brought against them was that “their nationalistic sentiment” posed a threat to “state security.”"

ljasdas4• 5 years ago

Not sure why HN moderation changed the original title, which was "I am Palestinian. Here’s how Israel silences us on social media." to its current form.

29392232• 5 years ago

Demonisation of Israel cannot be tolerated. Very telling.

dang6• 5 years ago

very telling

This is the sort of internet cheap shot that passionate partisans come up with. If you multiply all the moderation actions you agree with by 0% and all the ones you disagree with by 100%, yes, you're going to end up with quite a picture of bias. But it's a picture you've generated yourself by weighting the variables that way.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

For example, I specifically turned off the flags on this submission. That's a moderation action you presumably support, since you submitted it. But you overlook that, while a title edit is "very telling". Meanwhile there's someone on the opposite side of the question who's weighting the same two actions in the opposite way and coming up with the opposite conclusion, which they no doubt also consider "very telling".

More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27646015.

dang6• 5 years ago

I changed it the same way we change every such title which relies on linkbait tropes (which is what "I am $X. Here's how $Y" is). Linkbait tropes make HN threads worse. Editing them is standard moderation practice (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...), and is also in the site guidelines ("Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

I also took care to use representative language from the article itself, describing what it is about. That's also standard moderation practice: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....

Whenever we do any moderation on any divisive topic there's a strong tendency to leap to the conclusion that it signifies some political agenda, secret opposition to one side, secret support for the other, and so on. I understand that that's how the internet works. But it's deeply untrue. We're simply doing what we always do, as even-handedly as we're able.

Unfortunately, to the extent that one is even-handed (and I'm not saying we do that perfectly, just to an extent), passionate partisans on every side of every divisive topic end up feeling like the mods are secretly against them. Why? Because by definition even-handedness means they all have some data points to object to, and that's all they need to jump to such conclusions (actually, even just one data point, or maybe two, is enough to produce this conclusion). There doesn't seem to be any way around that, much as I wish there were.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mikevm2• 5 years ago

dang, why are such posts even allowed? It's posted by an anonymous user who's just created his account, and the content his highly one-sided and prone to create political flame wars.

ljasdas4• 5 years ago

After taking a few minutes to think about it I agree with you and I can see your point.

werber4• 5 years ago

As an American Jew who grew up with a distorted and racist world view in regard to Palestine this just feels like history repeating itself. The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience. That control of the narrative led me to be actively racist for most of my life while thinking I was not and also morally superior. This kind of censorship has a body count, and it lets war crimes happen in clear view while the on lookers think they are doing the right thing.

DoctorNick2• 5 years ago

Americans are more prone to this kind of thing because they're already used to overriding settler-colonial propaganda influencing their mindset; Zionist propaganda is just another flavor.

slipframe3• 5 years ago

Lots of countries have similar sorts of histories I think; while I'm sure what you say is part of the equation, I think it doesn't fully explain why Americans are much more likely to support Israel than people in other countries (for instance, Australia.) I think another piece of this puzzle is the popularity of Evangelical Christianity in America, particularly Christian Zionism and the belief that the state of Israel is a necessary precondition for the return of their Messiah. That's the sort of rhetoric I was raised with anyway.

xupybd4• 5 years ago

It is hard to say Israel has less right to the land it took over than say New Zealand. The main difference is how long ago the settling happened.

rayiner9• 5 years ago

That’s a hilarious assertion. One of the things we found puzzling when we moved here was why Americans spent so much time in school studying all the bad things the country did. Totally bizarre to us, coming from Asia.

LarryEt• 5 years ago

Do you not realize how dumb this makes you sound?

jdjdbxbfn4• 5 years ago

Jews and christians were there before Islam even existed and Arabs invade. Talking about propaganda, indeed the craziest of the world is Pallywood because it's so blunt, using takkia like this will give good points to go to heaven faster.

I'm from Algeria so I could go on all day long and even complain about the Arabs of FLN who stripped my grand parents from their lands.

But instead, I'd rather complain about how silly a lot of people are, eating pallywood propaganda without a single doubt, I mean, it's not like this article was showing the posts in question at all, the mere partial description they made of it are tailored to correspond the propaganda, really is there someone to believe that using the word "resist" online is enough to get an Israeli arrest?

I will not succumb to the “peaceful solution,”

Yeah, maybe they were arrested for incitation because of the part that was before the "resist" line pointed by this article. So that's some nice takkia right there, all this to get some good points, and y'all fall for it like school kids, that's so cute!

rayiner9• 5 years ago

As an American who moved here from a Muslim country let me assure you Muslims are socialized to feel the same way about Jews.

Took me a long time to see it. In high school I obviously supported Palestine and thought Israel was a settler colony (all of it, not just Gaza). Then I realized: wait why do I even care? I’m from 3,000 miles away in Bangladesh. In Bangladesh, people don’t even care about Bangladeshis being held in near-slavery conditions in Qatar. (More Bangladeshi workers have died in the Middle East since 2010 than Palestinians killed in the conflict with Israel since 1947.) They don’t care about the Rohingya. They don’t care what Saudi is doing in Yemen. They’re very friendly with China and don’t care about Uighurs. But everyone has an opinion on how Israel is oppressing Palestine.

xupybd4• 5 years ago

This is what war has done in almost every conflict. The enemy is a monster so attacking the monster justifies far too much.

selimthegrim• 5 years ago

They don't seem to care much about the stranded Biharis on their doorstep either AFAIK.

luffapi11• 5 years ago

I’d urge people not to give up caring. There’s a lot of crappy things happening in the world and it can be a lot to deal with, but just tossing your hands up isn’t the answer.

I’d also argue that tax paying Americans are obligated to care. Our money is funding Israel’s crimes and we are morally culpable if we don’t resist or try to change policy.

Ozzie_osman4• 5 years ago

It's almost like maybe you should care and speak out about Palestine and Bengladeshis in Qatar and Rohingya and Yemenis and Uighurs.

g8oz• 5 years ago

The opinions of Americans in particular on this issue are very relevant. The U.S provides Israel with a diplomatic, military and financial blank check. Many of the most aggressive elements of the settler movement that makes life so difficult for Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank are funded by American non-profit groups like the Central Fund of Israel. In addition some 60,000 ideologically driven American citizens are living as settlers in the West Bank.

xwolfi• 5 years ago

This is clear to me that the thing that matters most is Israelis doing it more than muslims being victims.

After all these Palestinians are humans like you and me, and despite the flaw of being muslim, could be triggering empathy in most of us.

But interestingly I really care more about Israeli reproducing Nazis patterns than Palestinians being at the other end.

And we talk a lot about China, but they're not jews, just atheists, so they're much better for muslim leaderships than Israel.

notsureaboutpg2• 5 years ago

Idk this doesn't sound true about any of the Bengalis I have met. They all seem to care a lot about Rohingya (since it is especially close to them and they see the suffering), the Uighurs, Yemen, etc.

Israel's oppression of the Palestinians is decades older than all the conflicts you mention, which is why they probably don't get as much airtime comparatively.

azth• 5 years ago

Then I realized: wait why do I even care? I’m from 3,000 miles away in Bangladesh.

I'm assuming you're a Muslim, in which case you should care because of [1][2]

[1] https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:224

[2] https://sunnah.com/muslim:2586a

Ozzie_osman4• 5 years ago

The sad part is that you can get called an anti-Semite (or self-hating Jew) for expressing any sort of solidarity with Palestinians. The sadder part is that actual anti-Semites then jump in and use that situation to further their agenda.

tartoran3• 5 years ago

Yes, labels are prepared for any type of criticism. The sad part is that there is some genuine anti-semitism out there (same is true for racism) and lumping this acusation with any criticism will weaken a real cause (again, same is true for racism).

werber4• 5 years ago

I’ve been ostracized by my family, which I think is much worse.

throwaway8943452• 5 years ago

I’ve not run into this very much. I’ve had very good luck advocating against antisemitism while also advocating against Israeli settlement policies. I think by advocating against antisemitism I demonstrate that I’m actually committed to justice. It seems when people are accused of antisemitism they are often not only criticizing settlement policies but also advocating for the destruction of Israel and are generally silent on Jewish persecution.

bkirkby2• 5 years ago

Can you share with us the most egregious example of a war crime committed by Israel that caused you to change your view?

Please be specific about the laws, actions, and outcomes that resulted in the crime.

random3142• 5 years ago

Apartheid is sufficient.

werber4• 5 years ago

Most recently, bombing the offices of multiple news outlets during a conflict comes to mind. But what made me change my mind was actively seeking out Palestinians to talk to one on one after a close friend told me I was racist. This isn’t particularly profound or anything, but a now very close friend of mine talked to me about how she could barely see her family in Palestine and that I could get a free trip and citizenship with no connection to the land because I was Jewish. That seemed so completely bonkers to me and still does.

YZF8• 5 years ago

How do we measure this sort of amplification objectively? How do we account for context? I would say that it's exactly the opposite, that through most of the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (of which the Palestinian issue has been a sub-conflict) the Arab voice has been amplified over the Israeli. Israel has faced many boycotts, many attempts to destroy it, and generally as less than favorable in world public opinion.

It is maybe true that there's been a little shift with the collapse of the soviet union and the split in the Arab world. I would still say that Israel gets more negative coverage in comparison to other world events and even within the specific conflict.

Just a recent example, at some point during the Covid crisis Israel was extensively criticized for not treating Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza equitably with regard to vaccine distribution. Nobody even mentions that Israeli Palestinians are treated equitably in this regard. Nuances are lost. Recently when Israel did agree to provide Palestinians with vaccines the Palestinians rejected them: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-says-covid-... EDIT: And forgot to add my point, that this did not receive as wide of a coverage.

Lack of "censorship" also has a body count. What about all the Covid conspiracy theories? Should we give those guys a free stage on social media? Incitement to commit real violence is also common in social platforms. To give an example from the "other" side some mobs that gathered to attack Israeli Arabs during the last conflicts organized on social media. Would you be critical if those voices were suppressed?

I can be really critical of Israel for many things. But I'm really not buying that the balance is set the wrong way. Keep in mind a lot of us are consuming the kind of news that amplifies our world views anyways. Which brings me back to how do we measure this in a controlled way?

wolverine87617• 5 years ago

through most of the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict (of which the Palestinian issue has been a sub-conflict) the Arab voice has been amplified over the Israeli

There is absolutely no question that Israel has more support in the West. The US doesn't give billions a year in military support to the Palestinians or Arabs - except Egypt, when signed a treaty not to attack Israel. The head of the Palestinians doesn't give speeches to join sessions of Congress. Yes, Israel gets criticized (as does everyone), and they do a lot of shit; it's laughable to portray Israel as a victim - and an old rhetorical tactic to claim victimhood when you do something wrong and take heat for it.

wolverine87617• 5 years ago

Note that the Israeli right-wing's biggest supporters in the US are Christian Evangelicals, not Jews. Most Jewish Americans vote Democrat and are liberal.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=evangelical+support+for+israel+sit...

throwaway2048• 5 years ago

American democrats and liberals strongly support israel too.

poisonarena8• 5 years ago

As an Israeli who lives in the Southern part of Israel, and who lived here during the Second Intifada, I think you would change your mind if you walked a mile in my shoes.

I think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been absorbed by social justice movements in the USA and people apply it to the BLM movement. It just does not fit the same narrative no badly how much Americans and Europeans want it to, but it is terribly convenient to pretend and act as though it is.

mslm• 5 years ago

If you sincerely walked a mile in the Palestinian side of your shoes, you would say the complete opposite.

realYitzi• 5 years ago

As an American Jew... The troubles that face Israelis have always been amplified over those of Palestinians in my experience.

As an American Jew, what experience do you have of the troubles that face Israelis or Palestinians?

jdjdbxbfn4• 5 years ago

Good step, but keep in mind you will have to stay in repentance all your life.

saargrin• 5 years ago

as an israeli jew that gets shouted down and banned from every platform where a pro-palestinian opinion is present, i can tell you i can easily assemble similiar facts about the "erasure" of Israeli opinion while violent anti-semitic and ofter plain murderous opinions stay online (especially if you consider arabic language media)

azifali• 5 years ago

As a progressive Muslim - I believe both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist, and thrive.

Unfortunately, it looks like the state of Israel has now become a needless oppressor and are content building an apartheid state without learning from the past.

rayiner9• 5 years ago

As a conservative former Muslim: As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke. By not rejecting Hamas, Palestinians make themselves a military problem rather than a civil rights issue. You don’t give civil rights to people who are military threat.

This isn’t a point about morality, but the simple reality of nations protecting themselves. If you don’t have military superiority then scrupulous non-violence is the only alternative.

crooked-v2• 5 years ago

Unchecked illegal settlement makes anti-Israeli sentiment inevitable. If the obvious outcome of playing by the rules is losing all their land and livelihood anyway, people won't play by the rules.

Udik6• 5 years ago

the simple reality of nations protecting themselves

Israel is stealing from others (this is an established fact), its victims react, so Israel "protects itself" against that reaction. Are you ok with this? Do you think that robbers have a right to protect themselves from their victims?

let_me_ask_this3• 5 years ago

The problem with peaceful protest is that it can only work if there is very strong international pressure to stop Israel, because they most definitely won't stop by themselves. The problem with expecting any international pressure, is that America vetos any such event, and Israel work really hard to make sure they always have the backing of all the countries that matter.

In any case, Hamas's existence is completely orthogonal to the reason for Israel's aggression. They want more land and less Palestinians on it.

wolverine87617• 5 years ago

As long as Palestinians chant “from the river to the sea” and tolerate Hamas any talk about a two state solution is a joke.

Comments like this one are the gears that turn to prevent peace. As with many conflicts, both sides do things that are incompatible with peace, and will not give them up because they see what the other side does. The answer is not to blame one side for reacting to the other.

It's not a novel situation at all. There are well-established, well-studied ways to build trust and peace.

threatofrain2• 5 years ago

It would be hard for a moderate, compromising government to emerge in this atmosphere where the big guns have already come out.

p_j_w2• 5 years ago

By not rejecting Hamas, Palestinians make themselves a military problem rather than a civil rights issue.

Why does this statement not work against Israel for supporting governments that build settlements? Surely the war crime of building settlements is worse than a chant?

edanm• 5 years ago

I don't disagree with your assessment, though it's not like Israel is perfect either - Israelis have been happy to continually vote for people who don't particularly prioritize peace (to put it mildly), and Israel has basically been strategically strengthening their position in negotiations by building settlements for the past 50 years.

The situation is complicated exactly because there are few ways forward if neither side has any incentives to compromise (partly for real strategic reasons, partly because the people in charge have goals that are not equivalent to making their people better off).

maybelsyrup• 5 years ago

As long as [...], any talk about a two state solution is a joke

It sucks to have to say, but no one in any position of power on any side of this conflict believes a two-state solution is possible anymore. That ship sailed a decade ago or so, depending on who you ask, and all of the players have moved on; it's only parts of the public who still believe it's possible. It may still be desirable, of course - I certainly desire it - but the "facts of the ground", as the Israelis love to phrase it, don't allow for it, and won't. (Said "facts" have been engineered for precisely that purpose: to make a Palestinian state impossible to achieve in any reasonable and practical sense.)

guerrilla4• 5 years ago

Why do you think it's not possible for the settlers to leave the West Bank? They did from Gaza.

edgyquant• 5 years ago

Can we stop throwing around the word apartheid? Just because something is bad, or racist, doesn’t make it apartheid. That is descriptive of an extremely specific economic state that existed in the “dual” economies of South Africa after decolonization. What Israel is doing is not similar to Apartheid.

guerrilla4• 5 years ago

I think you'll find that the generalized definition does apply[1] and that Human Rights Watch naturally agrees [2]. In fact it will apply to any ethnostate and Israel does define itself as an ethnostate for Jews.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_(crime)

2. https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra...

buran77• 5 years ago

One of the charges brought against them was that “their nationalistic sentiment” posed a threat to “state security.”

Reprehensible. But when you have powerful enough friends it turns out it's perfectly acceptable. There will always be someone else out there to serve as the "greater evil" cover and this is a great disservice to the world, as crimes against humanity are just swept under the rug.

Social media, our last remaining avenue for exposing the violence, was aiding and abetting Israeli crimes against us. Our documentation and testimonies of the violence we faced from Israeli settlers were shut down by tech companies far from Palestine. This included videos of mobs chasing Palestinians while screaming “Death to Arabs;” Israeli police firing live ammunition at unarmed Palestinians; the carpet bombing of Gaza;

As long as western social media is almost entirely under US control one has to accept that everything there will dance to the tune made by and for the US and their closest interests. That much touted freedom of speech extends only as far as it isn't an inconvenience or embarrassment for those with the strings and levers. Carpet bombing civilians doesn't send a good message to be associated with the US by alliance.

RhodoGSA4• 5 years ago

It's much more a of an oligarchy than the social media company's being controlled by the US. The Irony of Democracy is a book that goes into detail on this.

golergka• 5 years ago

Even this comment section very clearly shows who and what is really being silenced.

Animats• 5 years ago

A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism.[1] That made it OK to censor criticism of Israel. Israel's policies got more divisive under 12 years of Netanyahu, and there's more reason to be critical of them. Those two trends are in collision.

[1] https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticism-of-israel-is-anti-...

slibhb• 5 years ago

A few years ago, criticism of Israel's policies started being called anti-antisemitism

I'm not sure if that's new. And while it's certainly true that you can criticize Israel without being an antisemite, it's also true that a lot of people can't seem to thread that particular needle.

esens2• 5 years ago

The needle is intended to be incredibly hard to thread. That is the point.

tiku3• 5 years ago

Funny to see how a lot of comments get silenced/flagged here. In a topic about social media silencing. The irony.

This is how it works on all social media, people are offended and they report it.

ardit33• 5 years ago

Wow... this comment section is proving the point of the article. This was posted last night as well and got flagged right away.

The discussion is important as it is about Tech platforms deciding to side with Israel and silencing Palestinians in social media and they have no recourse. We have had plenty of discussions here about social media censorship (especially during covid and trump era). This is a valid discussion as well as it is about human rights. If we can talk and about Indian and Nigerian, or Chinese censorship against the Uyghurs and the Tiananmen square masacre, then we can talk about Israeli censorship war against the Palestinians as well.

Also Computer Ethics is part of the Computer Science curriculum in most colleges, and part of technology. We are not going to solve this conflict here, but we should know where censorship in tech is being used to suppress the voice of a whole population. I was born in a former communist country (1980, Albania), and censorship and media control was used to suppress the voice of the people in order to prop up a brutal regime.

"In addition to using social media to incriminate Palestinians, Israel has also used it to muzzle us. In 2016, Israel’s then-Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked boasted that, in the previous four-month period, Facebook had complied with 95% of Israel’s requests to remove Palestinian content on the vague basis of “incitement.” A year later, Israel tried to push the “Facebook Bill” through the Knesset, legislation which would force Facebook to remove any content designated as “incitement.” "

yuvalr1• 5 years ago

This comment section really proves what is being silenced. Just look for the voices that are not being represented here.

bsd44• 5 years ago

People seem to believe that if you bury your head in the sand, nobody can see you. Just because you don't talk about something openly it does not imply that the discussion doesn't happen at all. It happens in closed circles which just fuels the hatred towards the censorship and those who enforce it. You can't forbid people to think and have opinions. What is the point of flagging this entry? You either introduce a policy that forbids posting political issues on HN entirely or you don't, selection makes you a hypocrite.

dang6• 5 years ago

I'm not sure I follow this comment, but this bit is definitely wrong:

You either introduce a policy that forbids posting political issues on HN entirely or you don't

I've explained at length why neither of those approaches is viable on HN. Here are some of those past explanations:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902490

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

If anyone has a question that hasn't been answered there, I'd like to know what it is, and if you know a better way for HN to relate to political topics while fulfilling its mandate, I'd definitely like to know what it is. Just please familiarize yourself with the past explanations first, because if it's something simple like "just ban politics" or "just allow everything", I've answered many times already why it won't work.

mcguire2• 5 years ago

Please notice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL

Udik6• 5 years ago

Act.IL is a Social networking service launched in June 2017 that can be used via a mobile app on mobile devices running iOS or Android.[1] It is used by supporters of Israel to oppose "anti-Israel content" such as boycott, divestment and sanctions movement (BDS).[2][3][4]

nextstep• 5 years ago

Jillian C. York’s book “Silicon Values” has a chapter about this “electronic apartheid”. For all of the big social media companies, the content moderation for both Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories is handled by the Israeli office.

https://www.versobooks.com/books/3772-silicon-values

contingencies2• 5 years ago

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - Einstein

... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

vixen99• 5 years ago

All depends on what is meant by the word which all-too-often denotes an all-inclusive label for a cluster of characteristics chosen according to the political inclination of the user.

Wikipedia says "Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference (self-determination), that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power (popular sovereignty)".

Which other particular source of political power would you suggest for the US or any other country ?

contingencies2• 5 years ago

How about "We're all going to die if we don't get along and solve the current crises?"

poisonarena8• 5 years ago

This is literal propaganda on hackernews. Sad to see it here.

approxim8ion• 5 years ago

Anything political that I don't like is propaganda!

aaronchall• 5 years ago

I know many users have flagged this because moderator, dang, has turned off the flags for this post. I'm sure it would be off the front page by now if he had not.

I also know that after some period of relative peace, the Palestinian people allowed over (conservatively) 3,000 rockets to be fired on Israel by their militias, injuring over (conservatively) 100 and killing 10 (as reported by the Associated Press).

To me this questions the entire framing of the issues involved.

Is this post wartime propaganda?

poisonarena8• 5 years ago

More than 4000 rockets, about a third of which failed and crashed in Gaza, killing and injuring their own populace. And yes, this is post wartime propaganda.

user9822• 5 years ago

I also know that after some period of relative peace, the Palestinian people allowed over (conservatively) 3,000 rockets to be fired on Israel by their militias, injuring over (conservatively) 100 and killing 10 (as reported by the Associated Press).

Why, after some period of relative peace, did the Palestinian people suddenly "allow" rockets to be fired on Israel? Were there any proximate causes which they were responding to?

How many missiles did the Israeli people allow to be fired into Palestine? How many Palestinians were injured (conservatively)? How many Palestinians killed?

RhodoGSA4• 5 years ago

Hamas controls Palestine, which is deemed a terrorist organization by half the western world. Also, the US got a pretty good test of it's iron dome system it lent to israel. As long as Hamas runs Palestine, this conflict will never end until the complete utter destruction of Palestine is reached. Palestine needs to ditch their leaders.

rudnevr2• 5 years ago

The major reason was the elections in the West Bank, which threatened to shake Fatah domination there, and a change in US policy (Biden expected to be softer on Arabs than Trump). The violence propaganda started on TikTok weeks before the conflict. The Hamas's goal once in several years to exercise power, get international intention and get more funds to live. That's how they do many years already.

fsh• 5 years ago

I have some Arab friends who are very active on social media. It doesn't surprise me that the sheer volume of their political posts triggers all kinds of anti-spam mechanisms.

I have also occasionally tried researching the background of the claims made in some of the posts. Most were highly misleading or completely made up. So Facebook's campaign against misinformation might have something to do with the described removals. That being said, I still see tons of posts every day and don't have the impression that the platforms are hiding many of them. Even open calls for violence usually stay up.

The issue of alleged censorship aside, I am not convinced that this type of social media activism is beneficial for society. It would be great to have an open discussion on the many issues in the Middle East, but this doesn't really happen there. Most posts are straight up propaganda and and it appears to be taboo among Arabs on social media to even consider the Israeli point of view. Like the author of TFA, they even reject the term "conflict" because it might be thought to imply that both Israelis and Palestinians can have legitimate interests.

theshrike79• 5 years ago

I'm 100% convinced the Israel-Palestine issue won't get solved ever.

Barring actual divine intervention and nuclear war, we'll solve global warming before those two can live together in peace.

DavidPiper• 5 years ago

For people with almost (or absolutely) no contextual exposure to this conflict, can people recommend good sources to understand more about it and its history?

My personal preference would be for book sources, and if it's a case of "no unbiased account", then book sources from both sides of the conflict.

x4e• 5 years ago

I learnt about the conflict at school using this textbook: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edexcel-International-History-Confl...

I found it quite good, however looking it up now I see there have been complaints about it: https://5pillarsuk.com/2020/09/10/middle-east-history-textbo...

I will say my even though my History teacher taught it without any visible bias, I got the impression she was more on the Palestinian side (as was most of my class).

jgb1984• 5 years ago

Israel is an apartheid state. Stealing land and declaring a "jewish state" is no less criminal or insane than what isis / islamic state tried to do. Anti-zionism is not equal to anti-semitism. Just like I can criticize the USA without hating Americans, or criticize Iran without discriminating against muslims.

js2122• 5 years ago

Name me one land in all of history that has not been stolen or conquered? Also, could LGTBQ individuals live in Islamic State (or even Gaza or the West Bank!)?

Btw, you made claims of apartheid but offered 0 arguments in support of your position.

rudnevr2• 5 years ago

"Israel is apartheid state" is a very old thesis which the left hoping to apply to Israel after their South Africa success. There's nothing in support of it in terms of law, though. It doesn't even work as libel anymore. Just a marker phrase for antisemitism.

The blackout Palestinians are facing on social media

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