Kazakhstan’s forest is the birthplace of modern apples

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20181120-the-birthplace-of-the-modern-apple

by teleforce • 5 years ago

122 31 5 years ago

mc32• 5 years ago

Huh. I’d heard they came from the Pamir mountains in Tajikistan. Maybe it’s just a local rivalry.

eyelovewe• 5 years ago

Central Asia… Apple being a relative of rose, a major wild plant all over from Kazhakistan, Altai Republic, Mongolia, etc… along with cannabis. You see these two plants just everywhere in the southern regions… I’ve also heard of likely Persian origin for many related fruits, such as peaches and apricots

jaratec• 5 years ago

The roman/latin name for peaches was malum persicum (persian apple). The romans got the fruit from the persians, but the persians themselves got it from central asia or china.

Ericson2314• 5 years ago

That doesn't sound too far away.

2Pacalypse-• 5 years ago

I learned this on QI! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOcmEpp5Kmg

shrubble• 5 years ago

Almaty, which used to be the capitol of Kazakhstan = 'alma ata' which means something like 'mother of apples'...

webo• 5 years ago

Slight correction - ‘ata’ means either father or grandfather (father of apples). The city was known to have a lot of apple trees in the surrounding mountains.

Miiko3• 5 years ago

Not really. Kazakh word for "father" is "әке", and "-ата" is used as suffix, similar to Japanese "-san".

Which is not very relevant anyway, since the real name of the city in Kazakh was always "Almaty". It is surely derived from "alma" (which is Kazakh for "apple") but does not have a direct translation.

5e92cb50239222b• 5 years ago

You're using the Soviet bastardization of the name. The original Kazakh name (Almaty, which has been used through the whole history of the city) has nothing to do with apples or grandfathers.

dmitriid• 5 years ago

Unless you accept that Almaty comes from Almatau which means Apple Mountain.

There's little doubt that the name comes from the word apple.

nanis2• 5 years ago

You're using the Soviet bastardization of the name.

I am genuinely curious about how the name Alma Ata which consists of two Turkic words and which how I was taught in school when I was growing up in Turkey is the "Soviet bastardization".

Update: Hmmm ... Wikipedia article also seems to indicate that it was Soviet thing to call it Alma Ata:

The name Almaty has its roots in the medieval settlement Almatu, that existed near the present-day city.[10] A disputed theory holds that the name is derived from the Kazakh word for 'apple' (алма), and is often translated as "full of apples". Originally it was Almatau which means Apple Mountain. The Russian version of the name was Alma-Ata (Kaz. Father of Apples). Since gaining its independence from the Soviet Union, the use of the Kazakh Almaty is accepted.

gerdesj2• 5 years ago

Thank you Kazakhstan for the apple. I think a bunch of Roman's brought it over to what would become the UK eventually.

Here in the UK, apples are very well respected and appreciated. Our apple pies and crumbles are close to legendary and we make a decent stab at cider.

I live in Somerset. The cider here isn't too bad.

dmos62• 5 years ago

Here in the UK, apples are very well respected and appreciated.

I've an anecdote about that. I worked at an orchard and I was surprised that we picked apples while they were still green. They were a variety that would golden when ripe, I believe. Anyway, I later learned that those were apples meant to be sent to UK (orchard was in France) and that in UK there's a large market for unripened apples (large green ones). I always thought it silly.

comicjk• 5 years ago

Sounds similar to a Granny Smith, which is meant to be eaten green and a little sour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granny_Smith

"The apple goes from being completely green to turning yellow when overripe."

gerdesj2• 5 years ago

Those apples sound like "Golden Delicious" which I believe we in the UK import from France.

"I always thought it silly" - fair enough but these are very complex things when you look deeply.

At the point of pick, the apple is now a self contained thing. It contains all sorts of chemicals, cells, structures and so on, contained within the skin. If you wax the skin then you might inhibit oxidation for a while (tends to make the flesh brown and sweeter) but the added wax means the skin is now not nice. Let's leave waxing for lemons.

Temperature will affect most reactions but too cold will destroy fragile tissues, so let's keep things at roughly fridge temperature, so around 5degC.

An apple is a very complex beast, sorry: fruit. There are sugars and an extremely complex cell structure to maintain. The thick skin will keep things stable for a short while but it's not enough.

So you pick it unripe and delay those processes a bit.

Grazester• 5 years ago

I wonder who I can "thank" for the Red Delicious?

caymanjim2• 5 years ago

Slow transportation in the early-mid 20th century. They were durable and could survive long journeys and extended storage. Then they became the "default" apple and it took a long time for people to realize what they were suffering with. I remember the sad state of affairs as late as the 90s, when our choices were Red Delicious, Macintosh, and Granny Smith. Sad times.

nierman• 5 years ago

I grew up in Washington State and remember eating a lot of Gala, Braeburn, and Fuji apples in that time period; I think those are all pretty good apples to eat "out of hand" (compared to what you list for sure; a granny smith is great in a pie though!). Yeah, some of the tasty varieties like Cameo, Honeycrisp, etc, etc, weren't really widely available until quite a bit later, even if they were discovered in the 80s/90s.

You are right: durability and surviving extended stays in "cold storage" was a big factor.

tannhaeuser• 5 years ago

There are and were many more choices available in North Germany, produced in the vast plantation area known as Altes Land. Also, for extensive cultivation in your own backyard, seeds and young trees for old/traditional varieties are available in abundance, and I'd imagine that to be the case in UK as well.

tedk-42• 5 years ago

Worth noting the original text in Genesis (Adam and Eve) doesn't specify an 'apple' but rather fruit from a tree

rsj_hn• 5 years ago

There are a number of different texts. According some rabbinical traditions it was a pomegranate, but according to the Book of Enoch and other intertestamental texts it was "like a species of tamarind tree". I'm not aware of any tradition that calls it an apple tree, although this may have been the case in some medieval paintings.

dalbasal• 5 years ago

Yep, it's an artistic tradition. A lot of traditional/medieval depictions of biblical stuff draw on greco-roman art.

Angels/Cherubim are depicted as winged babies in art, kind of like Cupid. The way they're described in text is totally different. Six wings and four faces, each of a different animal. Biblical angels and creatures were more like of Egyptian or Babylonian deities (eg sphinxes) than how we usually draw them. Scary mashups of different animals.

pydry• 5 years ago

If you are ever in the area it's well worth going up to the big Almaty lake with a local and driving down and sampling the wide variety of wild apples on the road down to the city.

Kazakhstan’s forest is the birthplace of modern apples

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