Most Australians will have their web access censored as of next month

http://www.news.com.au/technology/internet-filter/telstra-optus-to-begin-censoring-web-next-month/story-fn5j66db-1226079954138

by keyle • 15 years ago

54 75 15 years ago

news.com.au

jacques_chester9• 15 years ago

I'd like to remind HNers that Australia is filled with bright, intelligent, thoughtful and well-educated people.

We also have Senators.

hoodoof2• 15 years ago

This is being put in place to kowtow to the religious right isn't it?

jacques_chester9• 15 years ago

To a particular Senator, yes. Fielding. Senator Conroy is the Minister and a bull-headed man in his own right, so it might not get dropped right away.

However the composition of the Senate will change on July 1st, with the Greens assuming the balance of power.

I personally suspect that internet filtering will be used as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the Greens over the details of a carbon tax / trading scheme.

xavoy• 15 years ago

To bypass this filter, Google SSH Tunneling. Overseas servers are cheap.

This is the beginning of the end. I'm seriously considering moving overseas.

jacques_chester9• 15 years ago

Nah, Senator Fielding will only be in the Senate for a few more weeks. After him the Greens will hold the balance of power. Personally I think they're mostly loons, but they "get" the internet better than the major parties.

Maxious2• 15 years ago

Or switch to Internode/iiNet ho oppose internet censorship aswell as being cheaper in some cases and support powerusers well (ipv6, adjusting your line's DSLAM profile for lower ping or higher reliability and letting you run servers on any port

endgame• 15 years ago

They are required to block some usenet groups, though: http://www.internode.on.net/residential/product_features/pre...

dorian-graph3• 15 years ago

If you route /all/ traffic on your computer through SSH, are there any downsides? Like, latency or some sites restricting you from accessing (Sounds silly, I know, as the idea is to have open access to all websites but I thought it may be a possibility), online multiplayer, etc?

Or would it be more reasonable to route only select data like HTTP, FTP and email? I s'pose any instant-messaging too..

dzderic• 15 years ago

Try something like OpenVPN which uses UDP, which in my experience is much faster than a SSH tunnel.

morganpyne• 15 years ago

Actually, this came up recently here on HN, referring to a rather old article entitled "Why TCP Over TCP Is A Bad Idea". Discussion and link to original article here: http://apps.ycombinator.com/item?id=2409090

Bottom line; use UDP for your tunnels and a proper VPN.

vacri5• 15 years ago

The main article is talking about blacklist filtering, not content inspection of any kind. There already was blacklist filtering and has been for years - when I signed up to the very awesome Internode (2007?), in their t's and c's there was a statement saying that there was a very small number of websites that they were forbidden by law to provide (route? resolve? can't recall), all from a government blacklist, and "you really wouldn't want to know what's on these websites"(ie: child porn). Internode is one of the good guys and Simon Hackett (owner) is huge on net neutrality - he will only restrict where the law demands it.

But honestly, moving overseas because of introduction of internet censorship? Why not campaign against it instead? Are there other things that disturb you here, or were you perhaps not being serious when you said you were 'seriously considering'?

If freedom of speech is what interests you, the RSF places Australia as having more freedom of speech than the UK, the US, and Canada. NZ and Ireland rate higher, so you may want to emigrate to one of those, but beware that the economies of both those places might make it tough to find a job.

If you're a polyglot, you've got a bit more choice: http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html

csbutler• 15 years ago

Are you sure it was a website blacklist and not a newsgroup blacklist?

Joakal4• 15 years ago

Also looks like internet and phone companies are required to keep emails and text messages because it's effective against child sex abuse [0].

[0] http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/22/3250398.htm

Edit: Looks like it's part of the hacking crackdown according to this article: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/police-win-ph... Warrantless requests for electronic data.

jacques_chester9• 15 years ago

I love the argument.

"Without these laws we were able to do our job, therefore, pass these laws".

Joakal4• 15 years ago

For those who wish to change internet plans; here's a good plan search: http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/?action=search

keyle2• 15 years ago

I'm with TPG... Can't see if they're on board or not?

Joakal4• 15 years ago

The main article says two biggest ISPs: Telstra and Optus.

Edit: Conroy have stated TPG [and Internode] wouldn't join: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/government/mor...

hoodoof2• 15 years ago

What is the technical mechanism being used to implement this?

jacques_chester9• 15 years ago

I believe it's some form of URL filtering at the ISP's proxy, but don't quote me.

joahua• 15 years ago

The "changing one character" suggestion in TFA would imply that... it's hardly deep packet inspection if that's supposed to work. Obviously contingent on quoted person knowing enough about how this stuff works... though I assume she's been appropriately briefed on the issue!

elithrar2• 15 years ago

It's in the article:

> "The ACMA will compile and manage a list of URLs of child abuse content that will include the appropriate subsection of the ACMA blacklist as well as child abuse URLs that are provided by reputable international organisations (to be blocked)," the spokesman said.

Obviously, we all know URL filtering is useless and that the serious offenders are using P2P or encrypted connections (SSH tunnels through foreign VPS's, for example). In fact, it's even mentioned in the article[1].

[1] "Child abuse material is more likely to be exchanged on peer-to-peer networks and private networks anyway and is a matter for law enforcement." http://www.news.com.au/technology/internet-filter/telstra-op...

Dramatize• 15 years ago

The great thing about Australia is we still have a choice to change to another provider.

I'm a fan of Netspace's Naked plan.

Canada2• 15 years ago

> Electronic Frontiers Association board member Colin Jacobs also expressed concern at the scheme, saying the Government and internet providers needed to be more upfront about websites being blocked and offer an appeals process for website owners who felt URLs had been blocked unfairly.

As if they have any intention of even notifying sites they choose to block.

dqh5• 15 years ago

This, combined with ridiculous housing prices, overcrowded public transport, generally high prices for imported items, poor availability and high price of digital content, huge tax on wine .. I'm also seriously considering the move to another country, perhaps the US. As much as I love the culture, more and more I do not see Melbourne as a viable long term solution.

ashconnor• 15 years ago

It's funny because most Brits still cannot wait to emigrate down under.

elithrar2• 15 years ago

> overcrowded public transport

I've always thought Australia to have pretty darned good public transport, relatively speaking. That is to say that the US has (generally) fucking terrible public transport, outside of NYC and some small commuter services.

nopassrecover• 15 years ago

Sydney apparently has good public transport (I found it fine on holidays), and Melbourne's trams aren't bad, but Adelaide is terrible and none of the cities compare to European cities in terms of reliability, coverage or frequency in my experience.

dorian-graph3• 15 years ago

I never run into problems up in Brisbane . .

robryan• 15 years ago

Public transport is fine in Melbourne except for certain routes in the middle of peak hour. Living one of the slightly less busy rail lines and generally shifting my hours an hour or 2 later in the day from peak times I find it great.

Anti-Ratfish• 15 years ago

Recently had my first trip to the US. Used lots of public transport in SF and Sacramento. It was really easy and efficient (with the exception of a aggressive and dodgy Sacramento taxi experience). We were impressed. Trains, taxi, ferry, tram, bus. Planes though... Wow we're not all crimals or terrorists.

boyter2• 15 years ago

To be honest housing prices have always been pretty crazy, especially in Sydney. Public transport is pretty bad, but only because of the prices. I will give credit where its due and admit that it has been MUCH better for the last year or so. Imported items are only expensive if you buy them from local retailers. Digital content is more expensive, but then again most isn't here anyway, so hello bittorrent. The wine taxes are indeed crazy but with the current AUD prices and the glut of Aussie wine you can get highly drinkable wines for $2-4 a bottle, as the producers are hurting.

I live in Sydney, have a reasonable, but not high salary and live a pretty comfortable life. I don't own my home, but will do in 7 years or so. I drink reasonable wines and have whatever toys (phones etc...) I want. I have a dependent partner but no children as yet.

When all you have to complain about is that the houses and wine are expensive, you cant get a seat on the train/bus, imported goods cost more then local and digital content isn't as cheap as other markets your life really isn't that bad.

dqh5• 15 years ago

When did you buy, and could you still at today's prices on your reasonable salary?

dschobel5• 15 years ago

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2011/02/liveability_...

If you can't live in the second ranked city in the world, it may be time to look in the mirror and have a long talk with yourself.

Take it from a guy who moved to Sydney after 22 years in the states. There is nothing I've seen in the states[1] or even heard of which compares to the quality of life here. Not by a long shot.

[1]based on living in NYC, Miami, St. Louis, Chicago, San Fran and visiting countless points in between.

jbm• 15 years ago

People told me the exact same thing when I moved from Montreal to Tokyo. I am glad I didn't listen to them. (Yes, even post-earthquake)

You don't understand his specific rationale or the social strata that he may be involved. Furthermore, how do rankings by old conservative institutions reflect on the preferred life balance of a hacker?

jacques_chester9• 15 years ago

Mate, I've spent time in every mainland capital. I would put Darwin, Perth, Melbourne and Brisbane ahead of Sydney. Sydney is, IMNSHO, overrated.

Adelaide is boring and Canberra is a freezing public service ghetto; Sydney has them well beaten.

vacri5• 15 years ago

Another city in Aus, perhaps?

The 'huge tax on wine' is because you can get four litres of cask wine for $4 - or sometimes less. Oh, how onerous! I actually find it amusing that wine-lovers are screaming bloody murder because their preferential treatment over other alcohol types is coming to an end. Wine isn't being 'super-taxed', it's being equalised.

High prices for imported items? Traditionally it was because we had a weak dollar, and prices haven't caught up to the strong dollar - but that's okay, because we can order online with ease now. Our dollar hasn't been strong for very long at all, only a couple of years. General pricing moves slowly.

Ridiculous house prices I'll give you (and no politician will sign their own resignation by doing anyhting about it), but moving to another country merely to avoid those things you list? You're cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you like US culture (or wherever), then sure, move there. I know a guy that moved to Canada and won't stop raving about it.

But be familiar with the culture before you jump ship - you may be suffering from 'grass is greener' syndrome. The US has plenty of problems as well; they may suit you better, they may suit you worse.

dqh5• 15 years ago

This isn't the most important factor by far, but alcohol is about 3x what people pay in the US across all products. I only said wine because that is what I drink.

rdouble• 15 years ago

I spent 3 months in Melbourne earlier this year. Compared to Australia, the US has cheaper goods, cheaper booze, and all the digital content you want. Unfortunately, there aren't any places in the USA with good public transport (by international standards) and non-ridiculous housing prices. You have to pick one or the other. I've lived in NYC, SF, Boston, Minneapolis and rural Minnesota. Melbourne was a more viable long term solution than any of those places, especially if one wants to live in an urban environment. Most Australians I know love the states, but all are happy they have the option of returning home.

That said, the internet in Australia was so slow and expensive I'm not sure censorship should be the primary worry.

benjiweber• 15 years ago

This worked out well in the UK, censoring dangerous content such as text from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_Unit...

thisrod• 15 years ago

Pretend you're an MP. You, or at least your advisors, know how Christian conservatives "think". They believe in things that make them Christian conservatives, like censoring the web. They'll vote for you if you say that you believe those things.

You also know how hackers think. They believe things which evidence suggests are true. Regardless of what you say, if the government has failed to censor the web for 15 years, hackers won't believe it's going to happen. They'll vote for you based on other things.

You need to maximise votes. The winning strategy is obvious: loudly announce your intention to censor the web, but fail to do it. For bonus points, get some experts to tell the Christians it couldn't be done, so you can't be blamed for failing.

I just love Australian politics.

chrisohara• 15 years ago

Serious question - anybody want to buy unfilter.com.au? I own it

nazgulnarsil• 15 years ago

I wish everyone was as analytic as you when it came to politics.

dongsheng• 15 years ago

I moved to Australia 4 years ago from China, uncensored internet is one of the best thing I have here, in China, government monitor everything on internet, and block plenty websites regarding politics and free speech etc, basically, government block anything they don't like, even the websites they not sure about. I wish the internet won't be that bad in Australia.

Devilboy• 15 years ago

At least (most of us) will still have a choice.

Most Australians will have their web access censored as of next month

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