Ask HN: I am a coder and I am thinking of buying Dell XPS 13. What do you think?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26817896

by whitepaint • 5 years ago

10 46 5 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I am planning to buy Dell XPS 13 (9305) and run Ubuntu on it. It's mostly for coding. Is it good? Would you recommend it? Is screen big enough?

I've been using Dell Inspiron 7559 for the last 4 years and I've loved it.

russianator2• 5 years ago

I've had one of these and it runs Ubuntu really well.

Personally I actually prefer the IBM X1 Carbons, they have the nicest keyboard I've ever seen and a good keyboard is IMHO a must for a coder hacking keyboard.

whitepaint6• 5 years ago

Yeah, I absolutely need a good keyboard.

Thinkpads X1s look really nice. Why is it better than XPS?

russianator2• 5 years ago

Main advantage is the full sized keyboard.

If you do a lot of coding, it's just a better ride than "compressed" keyboards.

13" is a nice form factor, but I find the 14" X1 just has enough space to give a nicer typing experience.

Just my opinion, you should see if you can try one out, and see what you think.

pestatije• 5 years ago

Going from 15 to 13 is noticeable. You should definitely try it before committing

whitepaint6• 5 years ago

I tried HP EliteBook 840 which is 14' and which is big enough for me, so I assume 13.3 shouldn't be much worse.

I really want to have something super light now.

dodecaphonic• 5 years ago

I've purchased one two months ago, and it's great. Ubuntu worked out of the box (the only exception being the fingerprint reader), and it runs smoothly. The screen is sharp, and it's super light. I'm happy with mine.

whitepaint6• 5 years ago

That's nice to hear. Is the screen enough for writing code? I'm used to 15 but I guess I'd get used to 13.4.

rbut• 5 years ago

I came from a 15” Macbook Pro, and at first it felt a little smaller, but now I am more than used to it such that I can’t even remember what it was like to code on the 15.

I do spend most of my time on my laptop in bed with my knees up though, so the laptop is closer to my face.

That being said, I love my XPS 13 with Ubuntu. Battery life is good, everything just works, build quality is high, and the screen is beautiful (I got the 4k one and run it at 200%).

I won’t be going back to apple ever again (and I used them for 13 years). I feel much more at home in linux.

xupybd• 5 years ago

I struggle to see on a 15" but if small screens work for you great.

My boss just purchased a Razor 15, it's amazing.

gkbrk• 5 years ago

I used to use a Dell Inspiron for a long time, I was very happy with the Linux support and reliable hardware.

I switched to a Thinkpad, specifically the T495. There are no problems with running Linux on it, the performance is really good, the battery life is great and the keyboard is superb. It has the added benefit of a Ryzen processor instead of an Intel one as well.

whitepaint6• 5 years ago

T495s look nice, I wonder whether the performance is worse or not (because of CPU), and how good is the screen compared to XPS.

SirChainsaw• 5 years ago

I've been using XPS13's for a good few years now. No major complaints.

Video camera is in a poor location. Otherwise totally solid. Great battery life. Amazing screen. Great build.

Consistently rated one of the best laptops on the market.

flippinburgers2• 5 years ago

The newer models have the video camera located at the top of the screen as one would expect.

guidedlight• 5 years ago

If wish the Dell XPS 13, went to a 14” display when Dell introduced the “infinity edge” screen... but no the rest of the laptop got smaller.

RileyJames• 5 years ago

I’ve had an XPS 13 for a few years now, running Ubuntu.

Once I got the track pad settings right, I haven’t had any complaints. Issue with the track pad was touches while typing. Can’t recall now, but some setting I found in Ubuntu fixed it.

I find the screen great. Although more recently I’ve been coding longer hours on it, I find the keyboard a bit small. I’m looking for a 27” 4K external monitor and mechanical keyboard at the moment.

The speakers are not great, pretty quiet. But you can over drive them if necessary. But if you care about sound quality you’ll use headphones.

Everything has just worked with Ubuntu. Been very impressed. Came from a MacBook Air, and I was nervous but now I’d never go back to OSX.

Ecstatify• 5 years ago

I would recommend strongly to not buy Dell laptops. The quality of the laptops are very bad. I bought a XPS 15 two years ago for around €2000 and the screen isn’t working anymore. The laptop hasn’t moved from my desk. Look at the support pages, there’s so many issues with no resolutions.

Current issues: Screen distorted - Have to use external monitor Laptop randomly freezes for 30s - Great for meetings Bluetooth randomly disconnects all devices WiFi randomly disconnects

Maybe Dell have these issues fixed but their support is pretty bad for known issues, I’ve had several Dell laptops in the past and things just go wrong over time. I’d definitely check out the support pages before you make any decision.

I’m not sure who is considered the best Windows Laptop manufacturer anymore.

My girlfriend has a MacBook and doesn’t seem to have any of the issues I’m plagued with, but again this is anecdotal.

whitepaint6• 5 years ago

I've used Dells all of my life and always have been very satisfied. It lasted 4-5 years for me.

dcminter2• 5 years ago

I've been using XPS 13 9350 then 9380 for a good while with Ubuntu.

Mostly they just work and are fine for coding if you don't need a lot of oomph. The niggles are the battery life, which is so-so and that Gnome doesn't support mixed resolution screens well (I have the hidpi xps with a 2k external).

I've also been using a Latitude 7400 daily until quite recently and that was better (good battery life, lower res screen worked better with the external monitor) and has better built-in connectivity if you care for the rather "industrial" styling. Marginally better keyboard layout too IMO.

Don't buy Dell docks btw - I had lots of problems with those and when they need firmware upgrades you can't do it from Linux; I'm having much more luck with a Belkin one.

I'd probably go for the Latitude if I was in the market for a new laptop right now.

dcminter2• 5 years ago

Peer commenter mentions trackpad; I had lots of problems with this on the 9350 with Ubuntu 16 and did a lot of fiddling to get it working sensibly. 9380 with 20.10 was fine out-of-the-box though (I install standard Ubuntu btw, not Dell dev-edition). YMMV.

haspok• 5 years ago

I'm still using mine from early 2015 every day as a home entertainment device, had to change the battery, but otherwise it is going strong.

It was dropped on concrete once by its corner (have some bite marks left on the case from that incident), spilled stuff over it, also I've used it in dusty environments, and I'm the person who never cleans their stuff. The display is dusty and the keyboard is filthy. But it just works, and I said to myself that I won't get another one until it fails. I think I might have to destroy it myself, otherwise will be stuck with it forever!

Notes: * The carbon-fiber-like fabric that covers the palm area is just dissolving itself. It also collects grease, so it is really not a nice thing to touch after all these years. Good thing is that it can be scrapped off, and the remaining surface is clean.

* It does not have a full keyboard. I use a Thinkpad for work and that one has separate PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/Insert/Del keys, which you won't find on the XPS. Personally for me that would exclude the XPS as a work laptop, because I wouldn't be able to use it without an external keyboard. The touchpad is excellent on the XPS though.

* watch out for the wifi module, and whether it is soldered on the motherboard or can be changed. Dell have a tendency to use non-linux friendly Broadcom / Killer chips, in fact, when it came out I had to get an Intel module to get stuff working. May not be an issue anymore?

Are you sure you want such a small laptop for work? I'd go for a larger screen tbh (but if you have an external monitor then it's not a problem).

whitepaint6• 5 years ago

Are you sure you want such a small laptop for work? I'd go for a larger screen tbh

Yeah, now I'm pondering about that. I'm used to 15, but I also want something super light. So I'm thinking about T495, it's 14' and just 1.3kg.

acs52• 5 years ago

Considering how small it is, the XPS 13 is surprisingly heavy. Some of the ThinkPads are definitely quite a bit lighter.

atebyagrue• 5 years ago

I got one in 2020 at the start of covid for coding. Ultimately, I just sold it and ended up replacing it with a 13" MacBook Air a couple months ago. The main reasons were: the case flexes when you pick it up by the corner causing annoying errant mouse clicks, the 4k screen did not have the battery life as advertised (a lower resolution screen would have remedied this, but I had no clue going in), several times it threw missing OS error message coming awake from sleep or updates, and the RAM is now soldered on the motherboard. One of the main reasons I went with the Dell was due to an older XPS 15 that I had and I did several repairs & upgrades myself. I debated getting a ThinkPad, but I went with a Mac because there was a chance I might be getting into iOS development. YMMV.

approxim8ion2• 5 years ago

Good point- I don't think anyone should go for a 4k screen on a laptop. 1080 is already pretty good for laptop screens, 1440 is probably the sweet spot. Aside from the battery savings which are immense, there's not much fractional scaling fiddling needed.

askafriend3• 5 years ago

1080 is unusable on laptops for me. HiDpi displays are a must to render text as sharply as possible.

TheHalfDeafChef• 5 years ago

Notwithstanding the other issues mentioned, but the MacBook Air is not exactly user repairable. IIRC, it is a SOC. So any part that breaks the entire thing needs to be replaced. I got a MacBook Pro 2018 and though it works it still makes wary.

askafriend3• 5 years ago

I've not had a single hardware issue in the more than decade I've been using MacBooks.

I've literally never wanted to replace anything in a laptop myself in the multiple decades I've been using laptops.

acs52• 5 years ago

I've been using an XPS 13 with Ubuntu since 2017 and would recommend it but with some reservations.

The fans can get noisy when using more graphically intensive apps like video calls (or even just heavy DEs like Gnome or KDE) with my external 2K monitor. Mine has a lower end (i5) CPU even for the time when I bought it though so maybe this is less of an issue with a newer one.

The built in mic is barely usable (picks up too much noise from things like fans) and the camera and speakers aren't great either but good enough.

If you haven't used a 13 inch laptop before watch out for neck and eye strain - I wouldn't be able to use this as my work laptop without an external monitor.

radihuq• 5 years ago

+1 my experience is the same - its a great laptop barring the fan, microphone, and camera

aliswe• 5 years ago

I have one and I believe they are overpriced. Today I would instead get a gaming laptop which basically packs the same punch but at a much lower price.

cosmodisk2• 5 years ago

But they aren't the same. XPS belongs to the ultralight series,same as X1 Carbon,while gaming laptops tend to be much bulkier,hence the premium charged.

throwaway39912• 5 years ago

Idk whether this is good?

https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/05/review-clevo-n151cu-lafite-...

Or maybe System76 Lemur Pro. It's 1kg only.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

cosmodisk2• 5 years ago

I've been having it for nearly 3 years now: Twice managed to spill food on it.Just a couple of weeks ago spilled some water on the keyboard. Also dropped couple of times,the last time it was on a pavement from more than 1m height. The build is rock solid. Had to replace the battery recently,as it wasn't holding anymore and also the CPU fan, as one of the ball-bearings gave in and resulted in some odd noises. I don't know if they fixed it in the new models,but there were lots of issues with WIFI, google it, you'll see.

The screen isn't big enough for development and while it's doable,it would damage your posture long term,so consider getting an external monitor.

In overall,I'm very satisfied with it.

etripe• 5 years ago

I have one for work, albeit running Windows. My gripes are:

* Nonsensical keyboard layout that I personally can't get used to. Perhaps this is a unique issue with the Belgian azerty layout.

* Trackpad is way too big for my tastes

* Touch screen adds little value and I hate the fact it's glossy. It also attracts dust like crazy.

* Fans are ridiculously loud even when just running an IDE. I can just about tell the IDE is loaded when it sounds like actual lift-off

* Battery life sucks compared to my ThinkPad

* Dell has some very unique issues with DPI scaling. Perhaps this is a Windows-only thing

To summarise: I would say it's overpriced garbage. Perhaps that assessment changes if you like the aesthetics.

happymellon2• 5 years ago

I find the keyboard fine, with UK ISO.

But the touchscreen is awful. I haven't yet put Linux on this one but under Windows even though I disabled it in the BIOS the touchscreen randomly enabled itself so if I touch the corner to close the lid I actually close whatever app I'm in.

Frustrating and an awful design. 4k is completely wasted and is broken in about half the stuff I use so I ended up changing the resolution to 1440p rather than using Windows scaling.

flippinburgers2• 5 years ago

I use one every day for work. I installed ubuntu on it and have had to fiddle with xrandr to get the screen resolution to be reasonable (but I also use xmonad and installed this on a machine that was originally purchased with windows OS). So you will probably have a relatively flawless experience if ubuntu is pre-installed.

It is a nice machine overall.

clircle• 5 years ago

Based on my readings of tech reviews, it seems like the macbook M1 is the way to go right now. Great battery life, great performance. Maybe a better keyboard than a dell, probably not as good as a thinkpad.

What's the argument against the m1 macbook?

happymellon2• 5 years ago

Perhaps because they use Ubuntu, and for people that don't use a Mac normally the OS switch can be a downgrade?

[Edit] I know that when I have to use my Mac, I find that I spend too much time repairing Python installations from Brew compared to how much time I spent fixing Python on Fedora.

jenkstom• 5 years ago

A: Apple. A company that makes the Steve Ballmer Microsoft look friendly, helpful and open.

B: OSX. The OS400 of personal computer operating systems.

dyingkneepad• 5 years ago

I have one.

One of the models has an wifi chip that doesn't work on Linux (I think it's the one that comes with 32gb RAM). The others have working wifi.

Sound doesn't work unless you plug a headset.

The Home and End keys are in very awkward places instead of just being fn+arrows.

There's a small defect on the screen that it took me a while to notice and now I can't send it back. It looks something scratched it.

There's a problem on Windows where if I leave it idle for too long it just stops working and the fan gets all the way to the maximum and it gets super hot. This doesn't happen on Linux.

The Tigerlake graphics is good enough to run Street Fighter V on Windows and Dota 2 on Linux, so I'm happy with it.

It's good locking and nice but I don't think it's going to last a lot. My model from 2014 lasted a few years and then the Keyboard and Touchpad completely broke.

If I had to buy another one I wouldn't buy the same model.

jbjbjbjb• 5 years ago

Dell XPS is seriously overrated. I’m not surprised at the comments. To be fair the latest XPS I have hasn’t been to bad but still the touchpad sucks, I don’t know how much of the other gremlins are due to Dell or if they’re Windows or bugs in my monitor. In any case my experience isn’t great and I much prefer using my MacBook.

If you do choose Dell check the support forums before you buy. Maybe try a Lenovo.

alxmrs• 5 years ago

i recently traded in my dell xps with ubuntu for a macbook air, because:

- the arrow key / page up and down placement on the keyboard led me to jump all over the page when typing

- the camera was placed at the bottom of the screen, which looks super unflattering (an issue of importance in an all video conferencing world)

- unexpected ubuntu on the hardware quirks that i had to deal with before getting to the coding that i wanted to do

- M1 is _fast_. it makes everything feel like lightning.

andrecp11• 5 years ago

Out of curiosity, with COVID I imagine people are WFH more and there's a tendency for that to continue. Did you think about buying a desktop instead? Usually is much better value for the money and Linux is likely to run without issues too.

Ask HN: I am a coder and I am thinking of buying Dell XPS 13. What do you think?

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