Open Application Model – An open standard for defining cloud native apps

https://oam.dev/

by geordee • 5 years ago

67 46 5 years ago

oam.dev

falcolas• 5 years ago

An abstraction (OAM)

On the top of an abstraction (K8s Custom Object specification)

On the top of an abstraction (Kubernetes, et.al.)

On top of another abstraction (Containers)

On top of another abstraction (VMs)

I wonder if the Dyke-sealing-boy is available for the inevitable leaks?

On a slightly more serious note, even though I participated in OAM early in the process, I've never really seen the value in the abstraction it provides, especially since it's using the Kubernetes Custom Object Model to run on Kubernetes (first, not only, I know).

nine_k• 5 years ago

Abstraction is what powers IT, what allows it to scale as immensely as it did. It hides the irrelevant details, handles it for you.

Abstraction is not always expensive, except at wrapping your head around it. (Though in the case of Kubernetes, the runtime and operations cost may be noticeable.)

linkdd7• 5 years ago

Imagine a developer:

On top of another abstraction (VMs)

Who does not need to badly handle infrastructure

On top of another abstraction (Containers)

Who does not need to badly handle isolation

On the top of an abstraction (Kubernetes, et.al.)

Who does not need to badly handle scalability

On the top of an abstraction (K8s Custom Object specification)

Who does not need to badly handle deployment

An abstraction (OAM)

Who just wants to ship their code

tmpz224• 5 years ago

Who just wants to ship their code

That exists, its called a PaaS. Kubernetes was not meant to be a PaaS.

I'm starting to think people create these orgs to forward their own career, products, or companies.

jimmyed• 5 years ago

Reminds me of SICP.

fengjingchao5• 5 years ago

If we all use LISP the whole tech stack would be much simpler :)

jjacobson93• 5 years ago

Computer science is all about abstractions. You can keep on going down with your examples: VMs are an abstraction on top of an operating system, which is an abstraction on top of virtual memory, on top of a physical machine...

Just like Python is an abstraction on top of C, which is an abstraction on top of assembly language, which is an abstraction of a CPU and memory, etc.

There’s reasons for all of the abstractions.

resouer8• 5 years ago

Complaining OAM should not be implemented on K8s doesn't make sense to me.

Kubernetes is NOT a PaaS, it's by design for you to create abstractions atop and serve your own purposes. And OAM is a great option if you want to build things like app PaaS or app delivery systems with k8s.

It seems you either have mis-understanding on OAM or Kubernetes, based on you are involved in OAM, it's likely the later case.

outside1234• 5 years ago

Don't get it. Seems like someone is trying to make Kubernetes work on Service Fabric or something.

rektide3• 5 years ago

they're trying to make any service fabric work

fengjingchao5• 5 years ago

Not make k8s work on service fabric. It is to provide a common platform so that the community users could build their own service fabric in an easier way.

nerdyyatrice4• 5 years ago

I wonder if you can explain why does it smell like SF?

resouer8• 5 years ago

Actually it will be interesting to see k8s work on service fabric, though it seems SF itself is not interested in this (it's not even quite alive).

anonymousDan• 5 years ago

What is service fabric?

linkdd7• 5 years ago

A google search gives me https://github.com/microsoft/service-fabric

Not sure if that's what "parent" meant.

juliangamble• 5 years ago

The spec doesn't appear to address the 12-factor app spec which does a similar job in a more general way.

https://github.com/oam-dev/spec/search?q=12+factor

https://12factor.net/

linkdd7• 5 years ago

Doesn't the 12-factor spec just recommend some practices about writing your app, where OAM is about the infrastructure spec?

fengjingchao5• 5 years ago

YESSSS! That's exactly what I want to say as well :D

nerdyyatrice4• 5 years ago

I wonder why do you think OAM should follow the 12-factor app spec? I personally have never heard of a spec created to address another spec.

tyingq• 5 years ago

Edit: Yep, wrong thread, thanks.

linkdd7• 5 years ago

wrong thread?

joeyguerra• 5 years ago

https://12factor.net/

wonderflow• 5 years ago

There's a K8s implementation of OAM called KubeVela (https://github.com/oam-dev/kubevela )

fengjingchao5• 5 years ago

Hi, OAM and KubeVela author here.

We originally created these specification and projects to facilitate delivering applications to Kubernetes without exposing all the nitty-gritty details. There's a lot to do to achieve such goal besides managing application templates, clusters, environments, cloud resources and service bindings, etc. We have seen common patterns rising up within companies of medium and large sizes. That's why we created them to provide common platform for others to build their own application platforms.

Let me know if you have any questions and I will be available here to answer them.

notmars• 5 years ago

Oh the longing and despair of missing Docker Swarm... It was missing so little...it was so well done and simple, elegant. Docker Swarm is now the betacam of container orchestration solution. hopefuly all these layers (kube-> custom kube -> OA*) will soon converge and fold themselves into something grandiose, efficient and simple. How eager I am to be there :-)

nerdyyatrice4• 5 years ago

I think that's the direction KubeVela is going

antman• 5 years ago

Have you tried Nomad?

linkdd7• 5 years ago

Taken directly from the Nomad website[1]:

Kubernetes and Nomad support similar core use cases for application deployment and management, but they differ in a few key ways.
Kubernetes aims to provide all the features needed to run Docker-based applications including cluster management, scheduling, service discovery, monitoring, secrets management and more.
Nomad only aims to focus on cluster management and scheduling and is designed with the Unix philosophy of having a small scope while composing with tools like Consul for service discovery/service mesh and Vault for secret management.

Compare Kubernetes Pods and Deployments to Nomad, and the full Kubernetes ecosystem to the full Hashicorp ecosystem please.

IMHO, Vault and Consul are very hard to operate correctly, at least as hard as a Kubernetes cluster on-premise (managed Kubernetes does not count).

[1] https://www.nomadproject.io/docs/nomad-vs-kubernetes

cdrx• 5 years ago

Swarm isn't dead, it works just fine and is being actively maintained.

rektide3• 5 years ago

Kube's main problem is that it's not quite grandiose enough, doesn't have a general encapsulation system.

So everyone which uses Helm. Which is ok, it works decently, but it's also, like, kind of a lot. The target that we've converged on is just a little too sophisticated to make shipping stuff accessible.

We need more grandiosity, in order to be adequately simple.

afterwalk• 5 years ago

I really like this approach for simplifying Kubernetes. A few projects similar to OAM in that it provides a higher level "Application" CRD:

https://github.com/vmware-tanzu/carvel-kapp

https://github.com/k11n/konstellation

https://github.com/kalmhq/kalm (We ended using this one, which came with a set of matching web UI)

nerdyyatrice4• 5 years ago

Have you looked at https://www.shipa.io/

withinboredom• 5 years ago

It should be named Open Kubernetes Application Model. If I'm understanding correctly, it should be "portable" to other orchestrators or even bare metal. However, it seems to be quite leaky of the underlying Kubernetes stuff.

rektide3• 5 years ago

Yeah, well, survival instinct. They could never compete in a void. They need to borrow/interop with what everyone already enjoys.

resouer8• 5 years ago

Reusing Kubernetes Resource Model to build app-centric platform have many benefits: 1. Work seamlessly with any CI CD solutions which work with Kubernetes. 2. Clarity in api versions in the spec entity. 3. Adopt widely used best practices such as metadata, spec & status.

Overall, we should be aware that the complexity of Kubernetes does NOT lie in its api model (Group, Version, Kind etc). Also, an abstraction adopts this model does not leak anything in underlying Kubernetes runtime.

Open Application Model – An open standard for defining cloud native apps

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