Amazon Workers’ Union Drive Reaches Far Beyond Alabama

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/business/amazon-union-bessemer-alabama.html

114 94 5 years ago

s_Hogg• 5 years ago

Good. Speaking as a foreigner, it's unbelievable what gets tolerated in supposedly the richest country the world has ever known. I'm sure the company can agree to let people go to the toilet or whatever and we will all roll on.

moocowtruck• 5 years ago

I ask every amazon delivery person that comes to my house how they like working for amazon, I've not got one single negative remark! Amazon delivers on time mostly and even through weather. USPS on the other hand which has multiple unions, don't delivery if there's a dusting of snow on my drive even though their motto says that doesn't stop them... I've also asked many usps employee's what they think of their job, and overwhelmingly they are bad reviews... ?_? I am curious the outcome of a unionized amazon will be, but I sure hope there's a competitor that can swoop in and still deliver to me in a timely fashion

qntty• 5 years ago

Alternative interpretation: unionized employees feel more secure in their job and therefore will be more honest when random people ask them about it. Or maybe they didn't even know where to start. The only people I've ever heard have no complaints about their job were people who had so many complaints that they put on an easy-going front to avoid dumping their problems on someone who's trying to make small talk.

It's like when you're teaching and the students don't understand a thing you said, they'll have no questions. It's always the kids who understood 75% of what you said who has a question. One of the goals of every liberation movement (labor, feminism, racial justice, etc.) is making people aware of their shared struggle and it's causes. The Teamsters are far from radical but the fact that things can even be negotiated at all has a way of making people aware that decisions of management are not forces of nature.

SketchySeaBeast• 5 years ago

I've never once told a customer at any job that I worked at that I dislike my job because while I didn't like my job, I needed my job and didn't want anything to put that in jeopardy, like my boss finding out I told someone I don't like my job.

ramphastidae2• 5 years ago

Why would those workers have any incentive to tell you the truth? Esp. since you were probably recording them with a doorbell surveillance device owned by their employer as you asked ...

kar5pt3• 5 years ago

The people doing deliveries aren't the ones working in the warehouses (which are unionizing). Most of the delivery drivers work for third party contractors.

If the warehouse workers were happy with the status quo, why would they be trying to unionize in the first place?

AlwaysRock• 5 years ago

You've got to be a paid shill or blissfully ignoring.

If you were making a low wage and easily replaceable would you bitch about your job to random people who asked you if you liked it or smile and say its great?

vangelis• 5 years ago

I imagine you'd find something similar if you asked Uber drivers about job satisfaction. Wouldn't want to get dinged.

AlexTWithBeard6• 5 years ago

the richest country the world

May be it's not a coincidence?

bbddg4• 5 years ago

Well how would you explain any of the Nordic countries if you thought there was a connection between GDP and Unionization? Norway has 70% of their workers covered by a Union contract and has a higher GDP per capita than the US. Along with some of the lowest levels of inequality of any nation.

seibelj8• 5 years ago

Speaking as an American, I’m proud that Amazon is one of the greatest success stories of the last 25 years, and it’s one of the many tech companies that have emerged only in America. Europe hasn’t produced a single large tech company despite similar population size and an even better educated work force.

Maybe foreign countries should learn why America continues to create superstar firms in every industry.

robert_foss2• 5 years ago

I think innovation based on providing minimum wage jobs is not much of innovation, it is a story as old as humanity. The case is even worse for the low salaried work force of the gig economy where a job no longer even qualifies you for 'job' benefits.

If you think other regions aren't producing value in the tech ecosystem, nationalism is getting in the way of your eye.

nicoffeine• 5 years ago

Spot on. Who needs five weeks of vacation and years of maternity/paternity leave, or an affordable university and health care system? The important thing is to create technology companies with incredible ideas like "shipping items really fast" or "youtube but we call it Prime Video." And most importantly, to make it profitable by squeezing employees to the fullest extent of the law.

You would think all these highly educated Europeans would understand that it's better to dissolve their unions so they can work two jobs to support the kids they never get to spend time with. They don't seem to understand that the true meaning of life is to be be exploited by large corporations. So sad.

salawat3• 5 years ago

Innovation in wage theft or shirking of regulations/tax evasion is not innovation. Amazon built itself on ignoring expenses and processes everyone else has had to deal with for ages.

Props to em for having a logistics network, but if the abuse of their workforce is what keeps them competituve, I'd frankly prefer their collapse, as I'm not sure the distribution model we've settled on now is any better than what it replaced given the way it's adversely effected local brick and mortars.

I'd rather everybody have a shot at being a distributor than only a single monolithic company outcompeting by ignoring half the pre-reqs of business.

AlexandrB• 5 years ago

Keep your superstar firms, I'd prefer to keep my quality of life: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-us-drops-to-no-28-on-t...

ramphastidae2• 5 years ago

Take off your rose tinted glasses and join reality. This happened in America and not Europe because America allows these “superstar firms” to exploit the working class in order to achieve their success.

If America had proper workers rights and labor laws, suddenly these “superstars” would disappear.

akudha4• 5 years ago

Why are people "proud" of something that they had no involvement in, has no connection to etc etc? Like, were you involved with Amazon at all, other than perhaps being a shopper and maybe owning some stock?

Also, you are proud of a company that squeezes the living daylight of its workers? That treats its suppliers like crap? That is doing every trick in the book to discourage unions?

sandworm1017• 5 years ago

> I’m proud that Amazon is one of the greatest success stories of the last 25 years

That is a very modern american trend. In the past, citizens were proud of inventions. Germans were proud of BMW cars. Americans were proud of American rockets. The Japanese were proud of their electronics. Now Americans are proud of having the best mall, the most profitable distribution platforms. Ok. Cultural values changes. Maybe I'm old but I would rather be proud of technological innovation than marketplace innovation.

kar5pt3• 5 years ago

And why do we need "superstar firms" if they require inhumane working conditions?

wwww4all• 5 years ago

Speaking as a senior software engineer, where I develop software to bring food to my table, Amazon is a monopoly and should be broken up under anti trust rules.

Amazon as a business is about rent seeking and taxing internet commerce and engages in predatory monopoly behavior. They are actively suppressing tech competition and free market activity in e-commerce space.

The Amazon workers union should expand to cover he entire country.

Anyone that thinks this is about free market and Amazon is just a private company doesn’t have a clue. Amazon is quasi government actor now, where they are the only game in some small company towns. Jeff Bezos owns Washington Post and exerts undue influence on many politicians. Amazon has contracts with CIA and military.

As a software engineer, do you want a future where Amazon is the only employer and can undercut the salary to their liking?

Barrin922• 5 years ago

Maybe foreign countries should learn why America continues to create superstar firms in every industry.

I must have missed those American high speed rail or 5G companies, and if I take a look at global construction firms I see a lot of Japanese, German, French, Spanish, Chinese and South Korean names, but barely an American one. The US has really been great at putting apps on our phones, but the country kind of forgot how to built things in the actual world. Which by the way at this point manifests in a very physical way in the infrastructure of large American cities.

The US might be the first country where affluent upper middle-class people get their groceries delivered by drone within the same day, but it seems to be forgetting how to built roads and subways for everyone else.

sandworm1017• 5 years ago

> supposedly the richest country the world has ever known.

Which numbers are you looking at? Countries like Norway, Ireland, Qatar or Switzerland normally top the lists of richest countries today let alone ever known. The USA doesn't break the top 10 on the list published by the CIA. Only after removing alleged tax havens might it hit #9.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

okl• 5 years ago

High GDP per capita != rich. How about financial wealth per adult? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...

zdragnar2• 5 years ago

Unions in the US might get more support if they stopped behaving like the companies they claim to protect you from.

spaetzleesser3• 5 years ago

It goes both ways. A reasonable union wouldn’t have a chance in the US because employers would run roughshod over them. I think German unions work pretty well because there are laws that give them a guaranteed position so they don’t always have to fight for survival. In the US they constantly have to fight which attracts people with extreme behavior. Being reasonable and moderate doesn’t get rewarded. You could say the same about US politics in general .

runako4• 5 years ago

A lot of people are confused about the use of the phrase "richest country" so I will offer a definition. It's the country able to write the biggest check for something.

Per capita or other distributional measures don't come into the typical usage.

sandworm1017• 5 years ago

Given the budget deadlocks, the government shutdowns, the constant temporary budgets, I'm not sure that I would say that the US is "able" to write a check for much of anything, at least not without a multi-year debate and an election or two to decide the issue.

marcusverus• 5 years ago

Huh? Among OECD countries, the USA is tops in Household disposable income[0] (which, yes, factors in social benefits like health care) and Household Net worth[1], while being about average in (relative) Household debt[2].

Relative to the vast majority of westerners, the Average American is absolutely killing it. It's a shame that so much rhetorical energy is expended in a constant attempt to gaslight Americans about their financial situation in comparison to the Europeans. The reality is that the average American makes almost 50% more than the average EU resident[0].

[0] https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm#in... [1] https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-net-worth.htm#indicator-... [2] https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm#indicator-chart

oarsinsync• 5 years ago

https://archive.is/xyo6T

sokoloff• 5 years ago

Because Alabama is a right-to-work state, there is no such requirement that a worker in a unionized workplace pay dues.

I think that is incorrect. AFAIK, you do not have to pay the portion of union dues related to political activity, but you do need to pay the dues relating to workplace bargaining activity.

Naturally, the union accounting shows that well over 75% of the dues go to these activities that you have to buy with dues, even in a right-to-work state.

adolph• 5 years ago

Is there a requirement for or against an automatic or voluntary paycheck deduction for union dues?

SpicyLemonZest• 5 years ago

That bargaining activity component is called an “agency fee”, and companies also can’t make it mandatory in right to work states. You may be thinking of public sector unions, where mandatory agency fees were often assessed until they were ruled unconstitutional in 2018.

mritun• 5 years ago

I find it confusing because of all companies employing warehouse employees Amazon pays the highest $15/hr minimum wage and provides health benefits on top.

Amazon is asking for $15/hr to be made national minimum wage, but getting no support right now. Tell me again why isn’t $15/hr minimum wage getting any support?

slicktux• 5 years ago

National minimum wage does not make sense because cost of living varies per state; so small buisness would get hit hard in some states. Now, if Amazon wants to pay $15/hr nationally then good for them!

samr71• 5 years ago

I'd think that's the point behind most push from big business for a higher min wage. For them, it's another form of regulatory capture. Amazon or McDonalds can afford $15 nationally, but small mom-and-pop firms?

runako4• 5 years ago

Just a reminder that the current minimum wage is below the poverty line in all 50 states.

Those small businesses that would get "hit hard" by a $15 minimum wage? We're indirectly subsidizing those businesses with our federal taxes; those businesses are value-destroying enterprises.

(Edit: It's not just small businesses getting this taxpayer subsidy. Walmart and other large employers similarly transfer wealth from taxpayers to their shareholders by relying on government welfare programs to allow their employees to continue to do their jobs. In a very real way, Walmart dividend checks are paid in part by US taxpayers.)

typicalset• 5 years ago

There are arguments that the Amazon is pushing down warehouse worker salaries [0,1] (i.e. $15/hr is certainly not the highest warehouse worker wage).

I read this campaign mainly as a public relations move in attempt to undermine union bargaining for substantial material demands, and am happy to hear other views.

[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-12-17/amazon-am... [1]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3gj87/why-amazon-is-floodin...

jandrewrogers2• 5 years ago

$15/hr is the median wage for everyone in some States, and not that far below the national median. It would destroy businesses that can't afford to subsidize that wage with high-margin tech business on the side like Amazon can.

It is extremely distortionate to set the minimum wage at the current median. There is not remotely enough margin available to make that reallocation possible without radically reducing income for the majority of workers either through job loss or income reduction.

rayvd• 5 years ago

What anti-trust can't achieve, unions can. Good news for Amazon's potential competitors.

Amazon Workers’ Union Drive Reaches Far Beyond Alabama

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