China promotes education drive to make boys more 'manly'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55926248

by jnord • 5 years ago

53 61 5 years ago

Firebrand• 5 years ago

It’s oddly comforting to know Chinese social media and the influencers it creates seem to be just as insufferable as they are in the U.S.

mensetmanusman• 5 years ago

People are people.

LargoLasskhyfv• 5 years ago

Yäss! Gung Ho!

https://youtu.be/xhdcnlphz10?t=97

inglor_cz• 5 years ago

Whatever China does lately seems to be tailored to inch its society toward more expansive mode and military values. A lot of nationalism in the curriculum, the "wolf warriors" ideas etc.

I do not think they are doing this for shits and giggles. They invest a lot overseas and must be aware that one day, one of their client countries will rebel and will need to be subdued militarily to protect the investments and dissuade others from going down the same road.

The question is what is the rest of the world going to do. So far we seem to be mostly ignoring this yet-soft development, maybe because the idea of having a Cold War 2.0 with a major industrial power is really uncomfortable.

enriquto• 5 years ago

The question is what is the rest of the world going to do.

Most of the world probably dislikes China as much as they dislike the USA. If anything, they will be indifferent to the conflict, unless they happen to be in a "proxy-conflict" zone.

everdrive• 5 years ago

Even if what you say is true (it isn't) the world does NOT want major armed conflict between the two major powers. There would be a spillover of conflict, and major economic impacts.

arethuza2• 5 years ago

The UK is siding strongly with the US on this - including sending a carrier group to the South China Sea:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-carrier-strike-group...

I can't imagine, given the history between the two countries, that the Chinese are that delighted to have the Royal Navy active in their part of the world again.

dvfjsdhgfv• 5 years ago

So far we seem to be mostly ignoring this yet-soft development, maybe because the idea of having a Cold War 2.0 with a major industrial power is really uncomfortable.

The big question is: what can we do, really? The media in the West are quite frank about what is going on: China is a totalitarian state with all consequences. The politicians, though, seem terrified and bend over backwards in order not to offend the red dragon. There are small exceptions but in general China freaks out whenever anyone significant meets the Dalai Lama, for example.

A good example is Prague. Czechia is a tiny country in Central Europe with pro-China central government. However, the local government of its capital has a more free attitude and Beijing is getting furious each time the major of Prague meets the dissidents and so on. But most politicians in most countries are far less brave. Also they may realize the stakes are higher and higher.

Lopiolis• 5 years ago

There are a lot of things we can do, but that requires the EU, the US and China's neighbors to work together. It requires US to have a vision for countering China's growing sphere of influence. Unfortunately, the US is content to let China grow into the void that the US has left as it abdicates its role as superpower. The EU isn't fit to function as a counterweight to China.

I say all this as an EU citizen. For all its faults, the US is the one ally we have that could possibly coordinate an appropriate response (no, not military - financial, political and social, but also military if need be) and it's a tragedy that the US is just ... giving up.

mytailorisrich4• 5 years ago

Or more simply and less conspiracist, this is a mix of conservative values, public health (people are less active and fatter), and historical memory of what happened to them in the last 200 years (i.e. they should be able not to take any sh*t and to defend themselves).

ginko2• 5 years ago

Constantly bringing up how your country was wronged 200 years ago is the dictionary definition of nationalism.

actuator2• 5 years ago

Eh, I would count this just as some people not being comfortable with the social changes happening.

If you look at most of the pop culture that comes out from East Asia, the typical male archetype seems to be gentle, boyish looking men who are chivalrous and act cute at the same time. Typical masculine features like beards are generally considered unattractive on males. I guess, some people might not like it.

User23• 5 years ago

I'm no expert on anime, but the two big examples I'm familiar with, Sword Art Online and Demon Slayer both feature many masculine adult characters[1], but usually in a mentor or antagonist role. The protagonists are literally boys, who by definition are less masculine than grown men.

[1] The Legendary Hero Bercouli in SAO and Sakonji Urokodaki in Demon Slayer are two that immediately spring to mind.

toyg2• 5 years ago

Whatever China does lately seems to be

... doing what countries run by a dictator tend to do. I don't think we fully understand how much Xi Jinping has changed the PRC. The Chinese system was already autocratic, but Xi turned it into full-blown dictatorship. There are no balances to his power, there is no limit to his rule, there is no incentive for anyone in China to oppose anything he does or to develop alternative political lines. This situation requires an increasing amount of chest-thumping to justify itself.

must be aware that one day, one of their client countries will rebel

A lot of these client countries are not even in Asia, and the Chinese have never been "expeditionary". Their force projection is typically limited to their close interests. The PRC leadership has traditionally played the long game, but justifying a dictatorship has costs that must be paid for; Xi needs to show gains in a much more overt way than his predecessors. That's basically what it is. From what I can see, their only major objective is still to get the South-East off American control, and that will be it.

The question is what is the rest of the world going to do.

You're already seeing it: periodic waves of anti-Chinese action in civilian fields. Full-on cold-war seems fundamentally impossible in a world where most "Western" money effectively runs on items manufactured almost-exclusively in China - which is not just "a major industrial power", it's effectively unique in whole sectors and dominant in others. "We" will continue with the tit-for-tat and occasional offensive like on 5G.

AnimalMuppet4• 5 years ago

From what I can see, their only major objective is still to get the South-East off American control, and that will be it.

If you go by what they say, it seems that their major objective is Taiwan.

EdwinLarkin• 5 years ago

I dont see this going anywhere.Most of China can be pushed to dark ages by a confident and experienced black ops (Mossad?).

Most of China's power is in its coastal densely populated cities that are not possible to defend in any meaningful way.

xiphias24• 5 years ago

It's quite easy to achieve: have women to be manly for.

One child policy ruined the life of hundreds of millions of men.

lmz• 5 years ago

Ah, but if you convince them that the women are in other countries they might be more inclined to join the army.

fakedang3• 5 years ago

Or the labour export. Iirc, it was a thing in Pakistan a few years back that the Pakistani govt had to clamp down on because it led to domestic abuse and abandonment in many cases.

TheAdamAndChe• 5 years ago

Average testosterone levels have been dropping significantly all around the world, so this policy likely wouldn't be the cause of the feminization of men.

bitlevel• 5 years ago

Too much Oestrogen in the water supplies perhaps?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.h...

gambiting• 5 years ago

Wait, I thought that was already the effect, no? With men outnumbering women by a good margin, surely men would try to "out-man" each other to find a mate?

tartoran• 5 years ago

Financial situation has more weight than how manly a man is.

anvandare• 5 years ago

You can't really out-man other men like we used to in the old days anymore. (i.e. raid another village, kill the men, take the women)

Nowadays we do things more civilized by posing on social media with gym bods and expensive cars and other displays of sexual fitness. Trying to lure a mate instead of taking one.

Unfortunately, the numbers are what they are: a ~30 million gender imbalance. So however you turn it there's going to be 30 million men without a wife/family no matter what they do. Not a good thing if you want society to remain peaceful.

So they either import more women (via force or promise of a better living standard), or they get rid of the excess men (via war), or they suppress them with heavy policing and entertainment doping until the gender imbalance fades out over the next generation or so.

michaelt• 5 years ago

Well, these things can go either way.

Almost by definition, a manly activity is one where you won't meet many women.

xiphias24• 5 years ago

When there are so many men that they know that they will never have a girlfriend or wife in their lives, they stop competing....why go to the gym at that point?

throwaway6299• 5 years ago

One child policy ruined the life of hundreds of millions of men

You’ve got the wrong gender.

xiphias24• 5 years ago

I'm sorry, you are right :(

Killed lots of girl embrios and babies and ruined life of men :(

jacknews2• 5 years ago

I think Xi Jinping has to go.

Where he is leading to, no-one truly wants to go.

akudha• 5 years ago

And then what happens? Someone like him will replace him and the show will go on

coldcode• 5 years ago

Chinese history repeats itself endlessly. Dominance is followed by weakness is followed by revolution. Chinese leadership is very aware of their history, yet is ultimately powerless to change it, but each generation thinks this time is different. Modern China is only 70 years old.

jacknews2• 5 years ago

This suggests he is representative of the people, or that the people are allowing themselves to be dominated by a strongman.

I don't believe that, any more than I believed that America would just get another Trump, after Trump.

Hitton• 5 years ago

I wonder what their male to female teacher ratio is.

yorwba• 5 years ago

last week, the education ministry issued a notice with a title that left no doubt about its ultimate goal.

The linked notice is titled 关于政协十三届全国委员会第三次会议第4404号（教育类410号）提案答复的函教师提案〔2020〕475号 http://www.moe.gov.cn/jyb_xxgk/xxgk_jyta/jyta_jiaoshisi/2021...

About the Political Consultative Conference's 13th National Committee's third session, answer to the 4404th proposal (410th on education). Teaching proposal no. 475 (2020)

Yes, no doubts about its ultimate goal indeed.

The answer begins:

您提出的《关于防止男性青少年女性化的提案》收悉，现将涉及教育部业务部分答复如下：

Having received and read your "Proposal on the prevention of the feminization of male youth", the answers to the parts concerning the Ministry of Education are as follows:

(Then there's a bunch of blabla about improving school sports and whatnot, without any references to gender.)

So someone (who?) was concerned about feminization and asked the Ministry of Education to do something about that and they responded.

The BBC seems to have mistaken the title mentioned in the response for a statement of the Ministry of Education's official policy.

Maybe I should submit a "Proposal to replace Google Translate by fluent Chinese speakers" to the BBC so they can publish a headline "BBC to improve its reporting on China" but I'm not holding my breath.

EastToWest• 5 years ago

That someone is perhaps a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. I think a close equivalence is an MP in the UK or a congressman / congresswoman / senate in the US.

They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies.

BBC should really have done a better job here.

It is also funny to see the top thread a few minutes ago quickly developed into something like military might and "China must be stopped".

mytailorisrich4• 5 years ago

The BBC is very quick on jumping to anything that can portray China in a negative light at the moment.

Now, there are many things that do, but a more prudent and balanced approach with more research would serve the BBC well.

blaser-waffle2• 5 years ago

They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies. BBC should really have done a better job here.

The BBC has been flogging SJW agendas for a while now. Even though they're a state organ they need clicks just like anyone else -- and this gets traffic.

Mix in some good ole China xenophobia and voila, one of the most active posts on HN.

The formula works.

dumb12242• 5 years ago

Anyone who follows main stream entertainment in China and social media would understand these events as a commonly occurring cultural phenomenon (roughly the equivalent of 'masculinity/identity crisis' lately).

Having lived in Europe for more than a decade I however, did find the english title very alarming and worrying, even while reading the same chinese text have no such feeling at all.... language works in different context I suppose...

A12-B• 5 years ago

Two things to note here, first that this isn't really different to any other part of the world. There's always some concern about feminisation of men by (usually) older people who had a rough childhood in the war or something and now project their ideals onto others.

The other thing to note, although its not particularly interesting, is that there's going to be a media bias against china from the west in general.

2Gkashmiri• 5 years ago

so.... no to tiktok should do it

FooBarWidget• 5 years ago

The BBC article's intro implies that the Chinese government wants to draft more men into the military. But the actual issue has got nothing to do with the military or militarism at all.

At the heart of the issue is the perception that young men lack physical exercise. This government suggestion is receiving a lot of criticism inside China. Chinese netizens don't have anything against encouraging kids to exercise, but they are incensed that it's sold as a way to make boys more manly. https://radiichina.com/masculine-feminization-teenagers/

jariel• 5 years ago

Superficially, it seems crazy.

That said, testosterone rates actually have been falling for a while now [1][2], and 'that's a thing'. Scientifically.

Also, we spend way too much time indoors as a species and there may possibly be a gendered aspect to it.

If we can talk all day about special needs, issues and accommodation for women, there's not reason we can't do so for men.

Never an athlete myself, and loathing the American focus on Collegiate sports - I've actually come to admire it. Maybe not to the 'they call get full ride' kind of admiration, but rather, a respect for the fact that physical vitality is part of our essential being.

1 hour of PT/sports per day should be standard literally all the way through life: Elementary, HS, College, integrated into the Workplace.

Just getting people moving would fundamentally change so many things. Probably ever aspect of life would improve, and if we want to make it a 'men's issue' I'll bet that rates of ADD, attention span etc. improve, as an unscientific hunch.

Edit: It's not a 'hunch' - physical activity will improve ADD [3], attention span [4].

[1] https://www.icenews.is/2010/05/17/testosterone-levels-decrea...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-d...

[3] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/019394591664995...

[4] https://www.unh.edu/healthyunh/blog/2013/07/recent-study-tie...

China promotes education drive to make boys more 'manly'

Related Stories