A drone pilot was fined $182K by the FAA

https://www.dpreview.com/news/6343616131/how-one-drone-pilot-got-slapped-with-182-000-in-fines-from-the-faa

96 97 6 years ago

WJW• 6 years ago

Wow, just wow. Continuing to post youtube videos of your unlicensed drone flying in controlled airspace after already receiving two written warnings from the FAA is pretty stupid.

Also this gem: "These clips also revealed flight in hazardous conditions including heavy rain, fog, snow, and close proximity to buildings in downtown Philadelphia. There was also posted proof of the pilot intentionally losing radio signal, and control, of his drone." That goes way beyong "innocent experimentation with your new drone" and into "deliberately endangering people and property", especially if you've been warned about it twice already. Youtube money must've been pretty good to keep going.

rualca• 6 years ago

Youtube money must've been pretty good to keep going.

The idiot's most viewed video has about 33k views. I'm not sure that's enough to cover $200k in fines.

gameswithgo• 6 years ago

not even close!

scoot3• 6 years ago

The videos don’t appear to be monetized, which is just as well, since that would be another violation - unlicensed commercial drone flight.

JKCalhoun• 6 years ago

"There was also posted proof of the pilot intentionally losing radio signal, and control, of his drone."

I wish there were an exception for this. Likely the drone had programmed waypoints and was in an autonomous mode.

I remember hearing about attempts (back in the 80's?) to send a self-piloting model airplane across the Atlantic. I believe they finally succeeded? Fascinating to me. Utterly illegal I suppose.

But weather balloons get pass? I know amateurs launch balloons as well — perhaps there are restrictions however (like not near an airport, etc.).

Just some random thoughts.

EDIT, found a successful crossing in 2003, I thought there was an earlier one — perhaps only earlier failures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_of_Butts%27_Farm

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/model-plane-f...

koluna• 6 years ago

But weather balloons get pass?

Those are licensed and regulated. And I am pretty sure that if FAA sends you a notice to stop flying your weather balloon, you stop flying it. It’s not like this “pilot” didn’t know what he was doing - he received written warnings and chose to ignore those.

ardy42• 6 years ago

> Also this gem: "These clips also revealed flight in hazardous conditions including heavy rain, fog, snow, and close proximity to buildings in downtown Philadelphia. There was also posted proof of the pilot intentionally losing radio signal, and control, of his drone." That goes way beyong "innocent experimentation with your new drone" and into "deliberately endangering people and property", especially if you've been warned about it twice already. Youtube money must've been pretty good to keep going.
I wish there were an exception for this. Likely the drone had programmed waypoints and was in an autonomous mode.

It's probably not a safe way to fly, at least in an urban area near buildings, like the article said he was. GPS can go batty sometimes with signals blocked or reflected off buildings. I'm also not a drone pilot, but I'm a little skeptical that a drone flying by waypoints can compensate very well for weather conditions (such as gusty wind).

nathancahill2• 6 years ago

This is the original link, the dpreview link is editorialized: https://jrupprechtlaw.com/drone-pilot-received-182000-propos...

scoot3• 6 years ago

I wouldn’t say editorialised so much as summarised, and without the casual tone. I didn’t get any more information from reading the original than the one posted, despite the length of the former.

nathancahill2• 6 years ago

Here's the pilot's YT channel¹, and one of the videos that triggered the fines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQx6xhSSKco

¹https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrLRWeZSXoTrDlZ5zfkWjQA

hanklazard• 6 years ago

The Philly accent is truly something to behold.

Medox• 6 years ago

there's also his response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_GgqTMvx-I

loeg• 6 years ago

@4:21 he claims to not know about any drone flight regulation rules until "a day ago" (video from November 27, 2020). That doesn't exactly square with receiving multiple FAA warnings, as early as October or November 2019.

fblp• 6 years ago

Thanks for sharing. That video to me indicates that he has a child-like blind love for his drones. I imagine he couldn't give up that love even as he got the letters from the FAA.

strogonoff2• 6 years ago

On one hand, cases like this is why responsible pilots may become (and in some countries already are) unable to fly a drone without jumping through bureaucratic hoops. On the other hand, the About section of his channel is a poignant read.

In my eyes, DJI application’s UI is as much (if not more) to blame here. It puts way, way too little emphasis on FAA regulation violations; a small corner alert when entering a controlled airspace is IMO inexcusable (“Fly with caution” and then it disappears). Generally speaking, the app knows everything necessary—location, country, time of day, lighting conditions—to show a big “Only proceed if you are indoors, outdoor flight is subject to $xxxxx fine” warning before flight takes place.

djohnston• 6 years ago

I have a friend who likes to fly his drone in a valley. I asked him about helicopters, which are in the area since there are a lot of ski resorts, and he just shrugged. There's really a crazy level of incompetency when it comes to these amateur drone pilots and I fear the gap will only be plugged with blood.

kawsper• 6 years ago

It doesn't help that the drone community is full of people that do risky (not to themselves) stunts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgRuMXBHHI

mindslight2• 6 years ago

I'm not into drones myself so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but I'm a bit puzzled by all of these comments about safety. What exactly do you see as risky in that video?

That drone is what, half a pound? It seems like the biggest risk is it hitting a pedestrian or cyclist (of which I did not see any), and could result in perhaps a single person needing to go the hospital.

Meanwhile that video shows a bridge full of a hundred vehicles with one ton+ curb weights, driving at one another, piloted by what are most likely bored inattentive drivers. Due to the vehicle weights, there's extreme danger to pedestrians (over a hundred thousand causalities per year in the US, deemed acceptable). Due to the large difference between weight classes of vehicles, there's a significant risk to the passengers of those vehicles. And it's kept in line mostly by voluntary adherence to visual boundaries and an expectation that drivers will hit the breaks if the vehicles they're driving at change course.

Ancapistani3• 6 years ago

To be fair, those are some of the most skilled drone operators in the world, and you’ll notice that they never once flew over the roadway.

I’m not excusing it, or saying there was no risk - but I will say that it’s not as risky as it seems at first glance.

stefan_3• 6 years ago

You can replace "drone" with "car" and I don't see the "gap being plugged". Of course for the latter we even have demonstrable harm, not only aggressive overregulation.

noirbot• 6 years ago

You also have a lot more obvious benefits to having cars be commonly available. Pretty much no one I know with a drone is using it for anything more than a novelty. It's not to say there aren't valid uses for a drone, but there seems to be less urgency to make sure everyone can have a drone when the downside seems right there.

bluntfang• 6 years ago

if you think cars are aggressively over regulated, wait til you find out how many people with multiple DUIs still drive!

jrockway• 6 years ago

Cars are different than drones because we built our country around cars, and can't go back now. Drones are neat, and a good photography tool, but not quite as useful as being able to move around the world at 60 miles per hour. That's why we tolerate cars -- the upsides outweigh the downsides.

inoffensivename• 6 years ago

As a pilot: good. This kind of behavior needs to be stamped out before it gets someone killed.

sokoloff• 6 years ago

Also a pilot (and also annoyed by some drone operators). To me, this one didn't seem that egregious/bothersome. Virtually all of his operations in the video I watched were under 500' MSL (so below where even helos would be typically be operating and well below any fixed-wing operations).

When the FAA warns you and you decide to YOLO it, I don't cry for you when you get what they promised you, but a few hundred feet over cities is nothing compared to flying beyond visual contact at altitudes where airplanes are commonly traveling.

Clubber4• 6 years ago

Doesn't the fine seem excessive? I mean I would think $500 would get the point across. Seems like they are ruining this guy financially to make an example. You know he's gonna end up in jail due to inability to pay (debtor's prison?). That seems totalitarian to me.

mikestew• 6 years ago

I mean I would think $500 would get the point across.

You would think two letters from the FAA would get the point across. But you think it’s totalitarian not to give them just one more chance.

hh3k011• 6 years ago

Honestly, after ignoring these two letters he was _begging_ the FAA to make an example of him. Fine him $500 after two stern warnings? That's a good way to make sure that absolutely no one will heed any of your warnings in the future. I don't see anything totalitarian about it. I wonder, is GP by any chance a libertarian? The man is getting his just deserts, and that's all there is to it.

Clubber4• 6 years ago

You're arguing the wrong point. I wasn't arguing that he shouldn't get fined, I'm arguing that $182,000 was excessive.

jocker12• 6 years ago

Not excessive considering this happened before, see - He Flew a Drone to Take Photos for a Friend. Now He’s Facing $55K in Government Fines. - https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/06/12/he-flew-a-drone-to-ta...

bane• 6 years ago

My neighbors had a wedding in their front yard a few weeks ago. The photography of it included a dramatic drone scene where the drone took off from the couple and flew away at tree top level (about 60-80 ft).

We live within 5 miles (as the crow flies) of a major international airport. Did they have an airspace authorization? I have absolutely no idea. Did they know they needed one? Probably not. Was there risk of any in-flight aircraft incidents? Not really, unless somebody was flying in the canopy of our local trees over a bunch of houses.

To be honest the rules are confusing. For example, some cities have an absolute no-fly zone in and around the city. The rules then say you are free to fly (with certain restrictions) outside of that zone. But in major metros, the restricted zone is usually so large that it merges with other no-drone-fly zones (like the ones near other airports, air force bases and the like) making the entire metro practically a no-fly zone. We're talking about areas that are maybe more than a 1000 sq mi. In the pockets you can fly in, you usually need pre-authorization and have restrictions.

At some point drones need to know where they can fly/can't fly (and simply report an error), automate the flight authorization and authorization envelope and just simply license pilots as well.

Considering somebody with no training at all can buy a drone out of the local Best Buy, and probably can't read a pilot's navigation chart to understand what an airspace is, and probably doesn't know the regulations at all (or that there are any really), it's probably time.

heartbreak• 6 years ago

DJI drones (the post popular consumer drones) have software that clearly displays flight restrictions and won’t let you take off if you’re too close to an airport. You can put in your code from the FAA to unlock an area if you get your approval.

The problem with flying low near an airport isn’t that you might collide with a plane flying at 50 feet AGL, it’s that you’ll have an uncontrolled flyaway incident.

mathogre3• 6 years ago

As a hobbyist: Good! I like flying my drone, and I do so responsibly. I don't want people like this ruining it for others, and I especially don't want people like this endangering others with their irresponsible behavior.

I have a DJI Mavic Mini. If you're marginally competent, DJI makes it very clear that you are operating an aircraft and have rules to follow. In certain circumstances, you do not need to be Part 107 certified to operate this aircraft, nor do you need to register your aircraft. That said, you still must follow all related FAA regulations, like them or not. From the linked video from @nathancahill below, I see the Beyond Visual Line of Sight (BVLOS) issue, night time flying (appeared to be started before the 30 minute twilight, and I doubt he had supplemental lighting which would have brought it over the weight limit for registration), and generally reckless operation. Height is to be 400 feet AGL (above ground level) unless near structures, which allows you to operate 400 feet above that (§14CFR107.51(b)).

The FAA warned him. He didn't pay attention. Maybe a $182K fine will get his attention.

mig39• 6 years ago

Ironically, the Mavic Mini seems to have been designed to not be subject to rules, especially in other countries.

Here in Canada, none of the drone rules and regulations apply to it, as it's too small to be considered a drone.

I have a drone ... addiction. I generally use my Mavic 2 for most of my flights, but when I want to fly somewhere I'm not allowed to fly, I switch to the Mavic Mini.

So yeah, all those rules the FAA has in the USA, we have similar rules in Canada and other countries. But they don't apply to the Mavic Mini.

Sodman3• 6 years ago

This is largely true in the US as well, the Mavic Mini is 249 grams intentionally because most of the FAA rules explicitly only apply to aircraft >= 250g. They know exactly what they're doing, it's literally the first question in their FAQ page - https://www.dji.com/mavic-mini/faq

I'm generally very pro-drone but this definitely makes it hard to defend the hobby against anti-drone arguments. Most of the things people complain about we can say "Well that's already illegal, and with RemoteID it will be much easier to report them and have consequences"... But these 249g drones with 30 mins battery life and 4k cameras don't have to follow a many of these laws, even though they cause a large proportion of the problems.

ohmaigad3• 6 years ago

BVLOS is tricky in the age of FPV. Flying behind a large tree is illegal as it is BVLOS. Same with night time flying even on a huge field with no property or people in sight. Basically you are at the mercy of regulators because most of the stuff is illegal or available with some kind of permits.

mathogre3• 6 years ago

On BVLOS, FAA Advisory Circular 107-2 §5.7 actually covers the allowance for brief moments when a drone is out of VLOS. It's one thing for a drone to be behind a tree for a few seconds, and another when a drone is so far away one cannot possibly see it.

As regards FPV and even the very good remote viewing in the Mavic Mini, regular general aviation regulations essentially nullify either of those capabilities as being inadequate. §14CFR91.113(b) states, "vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft." That means in addition to looking forward, you need to regularly look above, below, left, right, and to the extent practicable behind.

On night time flight over a huge empty field, yup, I get it. The regulations make no sense for this.

I could begin a long discussion over the regulatory process in the US, but I won't. I will say however that it behooves drone operators to be aware of and to become involved in the regulatory process. Whether you like the process and the products of that process or not, it isn't going away. The regulations exist, the FAA appears at some level to actually be interested in educating rather than punishing, but they have the power to do what they think is necessary to maintain order and safety.

amelius• 6 years ago

How about the guy flying with the jetpack on his back?

A drone pilot was fined $182K by the FAA

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