Pine64 Smarphone Spare Parts

https://pine64.com/product-category/smarphone-spare-parts/?v=0446c16e2e66

by reddotX • 6 years ago

205 134 6 years ago

Drdrdrq• 6 years ago

I can't wait until it can be used as a primary phone!

OJFord6• 6 years ago

I was really considering making it my primary/only phone and pre-ordering, thinking I can put up with issues since I barely need/use a phone really and it'd be fun to help where I could.

But then I realised that most of my limited phone use is instant messaging/video chat with family etc. and it wouldn't have WhatsApp, Telegram __might__ work but most of my contacts use WhatsApp and wouldn't switch for me.

So really I think I need to hear anecdotal reports of anbox working well on it, perhaps even for WhatsApp specifically before I bite the bullet. (I don't really want it as a toy/secondary phone, would just be a paperweight I think.)

It is my 'dream phone' though really I suppose - Linux & hardware repairable. OS is cool, but honestly I'd be happy just to see more Linux and designed for repair phones.

(Yes Apple phones are not the worst in that regard, but only because of sheer volume. Also, using multiple screw shapes, sizes, and lengths is pretty hostile/'authorised only' compared to Pine's single screw type.)

AsyncAwait2• 6 years ago

I use the PinePhone as my daily driver. Telegram Desktop actually works rather well, so does Matrix with Fractal, but I don't think WhatsApp can really work without an official blessing from FB.

upofadown• 6 years ago

There is some sort of Whatsapp transport for XMPP[1]. Dunno how well it works in practice.

[1] https://git.theta.eu.org/eta/whatsxmpp

olah_1• 6 years ago

For messaging, I think there will be a matrix client that works for it. And since bridge bots will soon be e2e encrypted, it should work nicely.

noisy_boy4• 6 years ago

This makes me hopeful that we would have access to more high end parts not too far in the future. To ditch my flagship spec phone , I need similar specs as replacement.

OJFord6• 6 years ago

Do you play games on your phone? Otherwise I really don't understand why anyone needs faster and faster flagship phone every year or two.

Sent from my 2014/15 (low-end, year or two old parts then) Wileyfox.

loxs• 6 years ago

Modern JS frameworks and all the websites using them :)

noisy_boy4• 6 years ago

I'm the kind of guy who notices tiny UI lag (and I think I'm not unique in that). This kind of slowness in everyday usage tends to not bother a lot of people but it really grates on my nerves. I don't think anyone needs faster flagship phones every year or two (my current one has already been close to two years) but performance due to higher specs does translate to an overall smoother experience. Also, I think thats kind of the point of the pinephone - those who are happy with 3 year old specs can continue so and those who want to upgrade to, say, a higher-res screen or a better camera can do so without ditching the entire phone.

summm• 6 years ago

I want good cameras, with large sensor area and optical image stabilization. I don't need top CPU or GPU, or shiny metal cases l, etc. but unfortunately manufacturers don't usually sell medium range phones with top cameras.

Mediterraneo102• 6 years ago

One definitely doesn’t need a ultra-fast flagship phone, but the processor in the Pinephone is painfully slow to e.g. run Firefox on, much slower than cheap Android phones you can pick up for 100–200€ (like my Motorola Moto G7 that I use LineageOS on).

qchris2• 6 years ago

I'm running several-years-old non-flagship phone, but own a UBports edition PinePhone to tinker with.

Personally, I'm interested in eventual higher specs because I think it enables more things down the line. For example, I have 2 GB of RAM right now (maybe 3 GB if I now decide to replace my mainboard). But what if Pine64 decides to put go the Raspberry Pi route, and suddenly add an option with 8 GB? Maybe you could use an LTE-enabled SIM card to build a cheap remote environmental monitoring node based on the PinePhone, since it's already got a camera, GPS, and the data link built in, and could access peripherals through the Convergence functionality. Who knows? Optional higher specs only extends the range of possibilities.

howerj• 6 years ago

I wonder if it would be faster for me to assemble a phone from spare parts instead of waiting for my delivery!

yjftsjthsd-h• 6 years ago

Last time I looked, there was a note on the mainboard that they would only sell it to you if you already owned the phone.

alfiedotwtf3• 6 years ago

My contract ran out last month, and I'm biding my time for a new phone... I really want the Pine64 to be my daily driver. Hopefully soon! God Speed Pine64!

pablo1• 6 years ago

Does anyone have first-hand experience with the pinephone as daily driver? I'm thinking about getting it, but I'm worried I wont be able to do my usual stuff, including using things like Signal or WhatsApp.

Would be very interesting to hear some practital experiences!

kop3166• 6 years ago

I have it and I like it (Convergence edition on Mobian). My issue is MMS has been non-functional, and because of that, I can't use it as a daily driver.

Mobian has Anbox functional (though it is still experimental), so you can install apps on that. WhatsApp and Signal with without play services so that shouldn't be an issue.

BuildTheRobots3• 6 years ago

Slightly off topic, but I'm curious why the lack of MMS is a show-stopper for you. Personally I've always found it to be a waste of time and money; there's better and cheaper ways of transferring both text and images (especially images due to the compression).

Obviously you do have a use-case; please don't think I'm trying to say it's invalid, I just honestly don't understand what it would be and would really like to be enlightened.

ryukafalz2• 6 years ago

WhatsApp and Signal with without play services so that shouldn't be an issue.

I know Signal can now, but can WhatsApp notify you of incoming messages without Play Services?

OneLeggedCat• 6 years ago

I've been waiting on Librem 5 for years, and had hope for Pinephone too. Broken MMS is a big deal, because it is widespread in the U.S., and I can't communicate with family without it. It looks like MMS is still a long way out, and is not really being developed. I finally gave up and ordered my first iPhone last week.

hutzlibu3• 6 years ago

How do WhatsApp and Signal run at all? It is not a Android OS. Through a android vm? I thought that does not really work yet, at least not on the pinephone.

frzj• 6 years ago

I guess you could setup a matrix bridge[1] and search for a sane client[2].

[1] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/bridge/mautrix-whatsapp [2] https://fluffychat.im

blihp• 6 years ago

I've had one since July and unless your needs and expectations are very low, it still has a long way to go to achieve daily driver status for me. If you only need it to replace a very low end smartphone (i.e. just making phone calls and text messages with very low expectations for apps/web as you might use a sub-$100 smartphone for) then it might work for that definition of daily driver. What it is right now is an excellent mobile Linux device that is perfect for me in many situations that I'd previously consider using a SBC or don't want to lug a laptop around for a few minute task. It will get there eventually, but the software still needs a lot of work and the hardware probably needs to advance a generation or two.

For a daily driver, I literally just went out and picked up a new Android device this weekend because I can't see the Pinephone being able to take on that role for me from a software standpoint for quite some time or with this generation of hardware.

novia• 6 years ago

Does anyone have first-hand experience with the pinephone as daily driver? I'm thinking about getting it, but I'm worried I wont be able to do my usual stuff, including using things like Signal or WhatsApp.

I don't have the first hand experience, but I was doing research on this very topic earlier today. https://www.github.com/nanu-c/axolotl looked promising. (ubuntu touch only)

As others have mentioned, anbox is another alternative.

I ended up going with the xcover pro instead, but I'm still highly considering getting a pinephone to do dev work on. There's exciting stuff to reinvent over here!

8bitsrule2• 6 years ago

Here's a first-person report from someone who just got his. Heavily-commented post.

https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/jl6q6w/pinephone_arr...

megous4• 6 years ago

Also schematics and component placement map is available, so you can do some fixes/mods at home by yourself if you're so inclined. Several such mods were already done by people.

Disassembly is fairly easy, and it can be faster than using a third party service if you already have a few necessary tools. (screwdriver, hands, maybe soldering iron, tweezers, that's about it?)

sylvain_kerkour2• 6 years ago

Thank you Pine64 for this!

Reparable electronic devices are one of the few levers that can have a huge impact to create a sustainable future.

Obviously it will require to rethink our economies, like reducing the taxes on labor to enable small repair shops to bloom everywhere.

Linux + a reparable device is the only way to stop e-waste!

CivBase• 6 years ago

How does Linux stop e-waste?

sylvain_kerkour2• 6 years ago

Lifelong updates (unlike Android or iOS)

+ ability to run the latest distributions on 10+ years old devices.

marcodiego• 6 years ago

By being the most popular FLOSS OS kernel available, you can be confident that it will be supported for a long time on a multitude of devices independently of manufacturer, provider or vendor. Mainly freedom from planned or non-intentional obsolescence.

redvenom2• 6 years ago

I have an old Macbook Pro 2011. It stopped receiving updates from Apple. I actually did try installing the patched Catalina...but it is practically unusable due to system requirements.

Installed Linux Mint 18 XFCE a while ago and recently upgraded to 20. Now it runs really well: I can watch YouTube, run VS Code, compile stuff, do some basic statistical analyses, etc.

If it weren't for Linux, this machine would end up as waste and I would have to buy something new.

megous4• 6 years ago

I can still run 17 year old ibm t41 with the current debian.

But maybe it would run (walk?) windows 10 too, I haven't tried. I doubt so, though. :)

squarefoot• 6 years ago

Not just Linux, being free and open in general help immensely to reduce e-waste.

Just think of how many old cellphones that don't receive updates anymore could become media players, portable terminals, IoT consoles, instrumentation interfaces, retrogaming consoles, in-vehicle dash screens, etc. if only the manufacturers released the information necessary to install much faster and open operating systems and write device divers for them. Each one of these old phones recycled that way would be one less phone thrown away.

The Pine 64 isn't anything special hardware wise, actually it's way inferior to most popular phones (but runs much more optimized software, and no preinstalled junkware), however, being able to customize it to the point one day I could give it new life by buying say a faster mainboard instead of a complete cellphone then ditching the old one in a landfill, makes a killer argument in favor of Open Source software and hardware.

an_opabinia• 6 years ago

Ironically, as the operating system of choice for most phones and smart appliances, all of which go obsolete faster than purpose-built firmware devices, Linux appears in e-waste more than any other freely distributed code.

Which is to say this problem has nothing to do with licenses or repairability.

jessaustin• 6 years ago

...reducing the taxes on labor...

It does seem that taxing wealth directly rather than distortion-prone measures like income or capital gains could be the best response to the increasingly "gilded" age we're enduring.

suprfnk• 6 years ago

How do you measure "wealth"?

kortilla• 6 years ago

Is this an alternative to income tax in all brackets? If so, doesn’t this discourage things like home ownership and saving for retirement?

hddherman• 6 years ago

Repair shops can only bloom if the devices requiring repair can actually be repaired. If that does not happen, then repair will still be prohibitively difficult and expensive. Enforcing right to repair will probably end up with such a bloom, and I would happily welcome that.

nrp• 6 years ago

Making devices more repairable also has interesting ways of connecting into the informal economy. If only inexpensive hand tools are required, an individual can set up shop to serve their neighborhood with basically no initial capital.

emrehan• 6 years ago

iPhone 12 models could only be serviced by Apple. A youtuber bought 2 iPhones and swapped their main boards to have a plethora of issues with the screen, battery and cameras: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY7DtKMBxBw

I’m never going to buy another Apple product. The first blow was being unable to install linux to “my” devices.

__d2• 6 years ago

Two points:

Firstly, I think it's now pretty clear that Apple (and others) provide products that have numerous restrictions after their purchase. You don't own the device in a completely divorced context, but instead you have an ongoing, unavoidable relationship with the vendor, and that includes a forced lifetime after which the device becomes unusable (for reasons other than actual hardware failure). This is not unique to Apple, although arguably they've moved to this model faster and further than others.

Secondly, there are reasons for this, and they're not solely about making more money out of you. For many (I think actually most) people, it's an acceptable trade-off. They get a good product experience, at least in part because of this ongoing relationship. For some people, that trade-off doesn't work. These people should not buy an iPhone, nor a Macbook, Apple Watch, or indeed many modern electronic products from many manufacturers.

I think it's worth explaining this trade-off: in concept, and in specific detail for popular products, so that non-technical people can make informed choices.

But both approaches are valid.

systemvoltage3• 6 years ago

I have a very unpopular view about modern cellphones: I think they need to be completely closed and handled by a company such as Apple/Google. They know what it takes to keep it secure. I've got my entire life on a device with sensors, camera, mic and it knows my health. It is fun to DIY a phone and be able to fix it, but Apple has put security down to the processor level (secure enclave) and they have a team of security engineers who's budget would dwarf the entire Pine64 team. Pine64 (or such device) sounds amazing to hack on, but I would not put any of my personal information on it. People just don't realize how you can make the same argument about a computer, but a phone is a lot more than that. Does your desktop know where you're located and how fast you're going? Does your laptop know the gait of how you walk? I am a hacker, a linux aficionado and I love open-hardware projects. I love the community and the people. Just that I don't want my phone to be such a thing.

thatcat2• 6 years ago

That's actually a very popular view in the general population. All those features you list as risky have hardware switches on pine phone. Do you actually think iOS and android are so secure that you'd never need to restrict any access to your data with a hardware switch? What about when your data inevitably gets sold by those companies? Is it still secure then? That said using pine phone is a huge hassle and linux is poor choice for daily phone for UX reasons not security.

UnbugMe• 6 years ago

linux is poor choice for daily phone for UX reasons not security

Linux is a kernel.

vinay4273• 6 years ago

This is a security vs. privacy distinction. I think you both are responding to different things. Look at something like GrapheneOS for a decent glance into the value of security efforts by Google and the open-source community. Unfortunately, most of these don't exist on something like the PinePhone (yet, and perhaps never due to hardware limitations).

__d2• 6 years ago

Android is Linux: are you excluding its UX from this assertion?

hutzlibu3• 6 years ago

It is about trust. I do trust that Apple and Google has competent employees. I just do not trust their companies.

Concretely, I do trust google to use any data they can get of me. And probably keep this data mostly to themself, but who knows. And apple has maybe a bigger motive to keep their company image as privacy friendly, but I am not really buying into it either and in any case, as a non-US resident I do not trust hardware under the direct thumb of NSA and co.

So I want open Hardware and Pine seems to be the best, there is right now.

vinay4273• 6 years ago

The problem is this is generally a tradeoff between security and privacy, at least for now. You should trust the NSA and affiliates, but you also shouldn't assume hardware is secure just because it didn't include an exploit.

Look at something like GrapheneOS for a reasonable (in my opinion) take on de-Googling phones for which Google, somewhat ironically, has added important hardware security features: https://grapheneos.org

fsflover5• 6 years ago

So I want open Hardware and Pine seems to be the best, there is right now.

Purism is better: they pursue FSF certification for their phone and develop software empowering the user.

Shared4046• 6 years ago

Wow. That really is an unpopular opinion (well, on HN at least). Thanks for being willing to share.

They know what it takes to keep it secure.

I have yet to see anything properly supporting this. There's still malware for phones, and I don't trust either of the app stores.

In addition, Google especially -- but also Apple -- either exfiltrate way more info off of phones then I am comfortable with, or do a poor job of preventing others from doing so [0].

Personally, I would trust PMOS or a hand rolled installation of Alpine more than I trust either Google or Apple on both security and privacy.

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/06/23/apple-ios...

systemvoltage3• 6 years ago

Sure, thanks for responding.

There's still malware for phones, and I don't trust either of the app stores

I feel like it is to do with scale more than anything. There are millions if not billions of people using iPhones. There are millions of apps in the App store. If for example, Ubuntu made a phone that was handed out to billion+ people, I expect worse if not complete catastrophe.

I know it is weird to say a closed door's company is more trustworthy than an open one, I support out-in-open development of things like OpenSSH and cryptolibs; I just don't see it in a relative sense. All other options IMO are worse. Pine64 and Ubuntu would sell out instantly if I had a few million dollars to throw at them. Amazon essentially has Canonical out on a leash - Amazon integration in Ubuntu is absolutely cancerous. I imagine the entire Ad-tech industry of the size of a Aircraft carrier and Pine64/Ubuntu the size of a toy boat, they would buy people out left and right to get access to large number of users if Pine64 gets traction.

Instead of harping on the negatives, if Pine64 guys can get huge amounts of funding (and employ smart people), have bounties for security bugs, and can win my trust with custom silicon and hardware encryption, prove themselves to be against Ad-tech industry, put customer privacy first, etc; I am onboard!

vinay4273• 6 years ago

Something as (conceptually) simple as verified boot is lacking on PMOS. I think the PinePhone has obvious uses, which is why I have one, but for security I think hardened versions of something like Android which has been studied are a better bet, and these can be completely de-Googled for privacy reasons as well.

megous4• 6 years ago

The phone doesn't know anything by itself. It has the sensors, but you don't need to install software to use them.

I can disable them in kernel via DT overlay and that's it. There's no magic in it and the phone will know about as much about your location as your typical laptop.

megous4• 6 years ago

Hmm, that may actually be a fun feature for p-boot. Add a menu option to auto-patch all the sensors out of FDT, to be able to have a reasonably trustworthy alternative to hw switches. :)

literallycancer• 6 years ago

The vendors load up your phone with tons of garbage before you even buy it. Why would you trust them to take your privacy seriously? They pre-install malware that harvests your data just to drive the unit cost down by a few dollars. Google isn't interested enough to pressure vendors to provide sources, so you need their garbage blobs to make the phone work, even with a custom ROM. Apple is even worse.

TLDR they have the budget, but no actual reason to take good care of your data.

fsflover5• 6 years ago

There is no security without freedom. https://wp.puri.sm/posts/apple-is-right-about-privacy-but-wr...

systemvoltage3• 6 years ago

I agree it is a balancing act, I reviewed the key takeaways with a few disagreements:

Right to Verify: Society has the freedom to inspect the source of all software used, and can run it as they wish, for any purpose (Software Freedom).

This is an age old question raised by proponents of Richard Stallman's vision of what software distribution should be like. I strongly oppose this view, and here is why:

- Software that is critical to security, such as cryptographic libraries and protocols should be open source. At some point, trust needs to be placed on someone. These open source libs can be modified by Apple and we wouldn't know. Ok, then, the argument should be that Apple should open source iOS. Oh...but Apple can do things at kernel level. Ok, force Apple to open source the kernel. Oh...but Apple can trick us with microcode level code. Ok, force Apple to open source that too ~~! This chain can go on to the point where you can just say - I am building the phone myself from scratch. Then, you may ask, why should I trust Pine64's hardware? You can't just arbitrarily stop at some point in this chain of trust!

- Software that makes the Clock app tick and the Weather app give weather information has no business in the Right to Verification. A game that keeps you engaged and Photos app that edits your photos - with everything opensource, the world would be worse off. Innovation would cease. Free low-quality stuff everywhere.

- Users should own the data in an ideal world. I would hold the keys to my own data but then I realize how misinformed, incompetent and careless the general public is with their own keys. Most people can defend their household and their belongings, but when it comes to technology and abstract concepts - it would be a total chaos if every user had to keep their own key safe. I would pay for someone to keep it secure for me (sounds insane, I know but don't we hire security guards?). If that's true, then I might as well pay Apple to keep my stuff secure. When you buy a door lock, you're already placing trust in the vendor who manufactured the lock.

cbozeman2• 6 years ago

I disagree with your viewpoint on a fundamental level, but from a pragmatic view, you are, of course, correct.

That said, your viewpoint's validity is dependent upon being able to trust the hardware manufacturer of your device.

The chain of custody is a huge issue for hardware manufacturers, as Supermicro learned firsthand: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

zepto4• 6 years ago

That story has been debunked as being bullshit that was based on absolutely zero evidence. It is fake news.

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/10/07/bloombergs-big-...

I agree with the rest of your comment though.

octoberfranklin• 6 years ago

I've got my entire life on a device with sensors, camera, mic and it knows my health

I've got an unpopular view about your lifestyle: this choice was a bad idea.

black_puppydog• 6 years ago

If you fully trust your phone manufacturer, now and indefinitely, AND want to install "random" software from an appstore, then yeah, I can see how you need bigger security departments to keep it safe.

If any of these don't hold true, then I'd rather not use the latest shiny-app, fall back to a set of reasonable apps (maps, messaging, camera... I know that even these can be difficult on pine at the moment...) and only run software I can trust to do what I want and nothing else. That last bit "and nothing else" is really key.

Personally, I have come to hate interacting with android and ios devices lately because it always feels like they are trying to make me do something and as if they are trying to extract information from me, not the other way around. Very similar for the web by the way, which I also use less and less.

Essentially, modern smartphones feel like they're constantly working against me. They are powerful tools for sure, or at least they should be. But tools don't work against you. You can misuse them and hurt yourself, but that's not what's happening with smartphones.

These devices are actively trying to harm me (my mental health and my concentration at the very least) because the business models that produced them are based on that. Yes, even for apple. Their OS is much, much less like that than android, but iOS is nothing without the apps, and those largely follow the same pattern.

noja• 6 years ago

You are conflating security and privacy.

If an Adtech company can keep your phone secure, but sells your behavior profile, would you be happy?

zepto4• 6 years ago

I agree with this except for one thing.

I do want my phone to be such a thing.

The open source community simply hasn’t done what it takes to build a trustworthy, and usable end-user operating system.

We need to close the gap, and in order to do that, we need hardware.

boramalper• 6 years ago

I humbly but strongly disagree:

To me it just sounds like learned helplessness but I don't even agree with the premise that we have been helpless. We have a thriving PC ecosystem with Linux and BSDs, most of which I would consider no less secure than my iPhone; in fact, those are the platforms on which we backup our private data.

The issue has been the incredibly fragmented landscape of mobile computing. The free mobile ecosystem has never had the chance to mature because it did not have a reliable foundation (like PC-compatible desktops[0]) to continue building upon. Android too suffers from it, and now Google is trying adopt mainline Linux[1]. Practically, developing a mobile device/OS has been a Sisyphean task.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/11/google-outlines-plan...

superkuh• 6 years ago

Techno feudalism is the safe choice in the short term but has some pretty negative consequences on longer scales.

waheoo• 6 years ago

Can you build a phone with all these parts?

boudin• 6 years ago

That's great to see this. Another phone that is easy to repair and provide spare parts is the fairphone. I find their journey towards building an ethical phone interesting too. I'm not sure they sell in the us though... https://www.fairphone.com/en/

notanotherycom1• 6 years ago

Would I be able to build a phone by putting this all together?

I think I rather buy it. Even building my desktop computer with little fragile parts I kept thinking I'd break it.

Plestor• 6 years ago

Pine64 has GREAT reviews! Just check this out: www.pinereviews.com

Love this stuff!

Pine64 Smarphone Spare Parts

Related Stories