Venice holds back the water for first time in 1,200 years

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/venice-flood-barrier/index.html

by pseudolus • 6 years ago

240 69 6 years ago

jaclaz• 6 years ago

The defense system is called MOSE, the Italian for Moses, a name derived from the more functional Modulo Sperimentale Elettromeccanico, meaning Electromagnetic Experimental Module.

Elettromeccanico translates of course to electromechanic, and there is nothing actually "magnetic" in the project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acqua_alta#Countermeasures

As a side note the MOSE is pronounced "plain", while the Italian for Moses is Mosè (accented on the last e).

tuatoru• 6 years ago

If it uses electric motors to move things, or relays/contactors, magnetism is definitely involved.

eecc4• 6 years ago

there's nothing "magnetic" in the word "elettromeccanico" which is quite obviously the composition of "elettro" (electro) and "meccanico" (mechanic) :)

contravariant• 6 years ago

It's better to translate it as 'electromechanic' (although the distinction between electromechanics and electromagnetism is a subtle one, which I'm not sure translates well) but it's a bit too easy to dismiss electromagnetic because it has nothing to do with magnetism. The term 'electromagnetism' is wrong because it refers to the scientific field of study, rather than the field of engineering. It would also be iffy to call an electromagnet 'electromagnetic', even though it clearly involves both electricity and magnetism.

Also most electromotors will use magnets at some point, if only because it makes it many times easier to generate a reasonable amount of force.

sm4rk0• 6 years ago

At least they got the right sea (:

leoh• 6 years ago

Moses — who held back the waters and parted the Red Sea, btw. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Red_Sea

_Microft• 6 years ago

Related: the Dutch also have some pretty wild stuff. Check out the storm surge barrier protecting Rotterdam and the port:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maeslantkering

eecc4• 6 years ago

yup, a much better design that rests on dry land rather than on the sea bed while not in use; reducing corrosion rates and making maintenance a much cheaper procedure.

"Ah, but what about the landscape!" cried the politicos when greasing this pork barrel for their industry friends. Yeah, right... I bet they had the same scruples when they broke ground for Pordo Marghera. SMH

Udik3• 6 years ago

Ah, but what about the landscape!

Ah but what about the fact that the Maeslantkering closes a canal that is 360 metres wide, the total width of the MOSE is 1.6km...

TylerE• 6 years ago

Venice is a series of islands that is 100% developed.

There is no open dry land, aside for a few small (<1 city block) sized parks.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Venice_a...

igravious• 6 years ago

“Port of Rotterdam is the largest seaport in Europe, […] From 1962 until 2004 it was the world's busiest port” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Rotterdam

Wow

GCA10• 6 years ago

This is petty, but should I believe the Wikipedia article when it says "the barriers are controlled by a supercomputer"?

Unless this is a 1980s-vintage supercomputer, I'm baffled. The barriers' main function is to open or close. Someone needs to assess and predict rising water levels, but a lot of that is surely done by other systems. Add in some speed adjustments and some docking/aligning adjustments to get everything to shut just so -- and it still sounds far simpler than an iPhone camera.

The civil engineering challenge is huge. But I'm not seeing a huge need for the very high end of modern computing power to make it all work.

wahern• 6 years ago

The citation to the previous sentence (see https://www.dekennisvannu.nl/site/artikel/Rekenkracht-is-mac...) discusses the use of supercomputers, but from Google's Dutch to English translation it's not clear if supercomputer is in contradistinction to the BOS system that controls the barrier, or if BOS was just a lesser type of supercomputer-class controller.

Here's more information on BOS: https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/wer... https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/wer...

Here's a page describing BOS from the company that built it, though emphasizing it's reliability, not computational power: https://www.cgi-group.co.uk/en/media/case-study/intelligent-...

taneq2• 6 years ago

Maybe it uses a supercomputer to simulate the incoming tide and decide how much water to let in before raising the gate? It seems odd that they'd need more computation power than a tide table and an associated lookup table of setpoints, though.

Terretta• 6 years ago

From the article: ”Part of the Delta Works, the barriers are controlled by a supercomputer, and automatically close when Rotterdam (especially the Port of Rotterdam) is threatened by floods.”

It’s not the mechanical controller, it’s the decision to pre-activate protection based on prediction (“threat”) of weather conditions and water levels.

jonplackett• 6 years ago

I hope it's error mode is not a mini Tsunami...

eecc4• 6 years ago

it's probably broken hinges and a floating steel caisson. Or the same caisson stuck halfway out of its silted-up resting plate. Or the same caisson unable to erect because the caissons themselves are covered in silt... duh

tempestn• 6 years ago

The article doesn't explain why the plan is to wait for 110cm of rise to raise the barriers, despite flooding starting at 90cm. Does anyone know the reason? Is it a trade-off with keeping the lagoon open for shipping?

Udik3• 6 years ago

No, as far as I know it's because closing the barriers too often would reduce too much the exchange of water between the lagoon and the sea, damaging the lagoon's ecosystem. So it was decided to use it only when strictly necessary.

kylemh• 6 years ago

My guess would be because it closes off maritime traffic, and they likely have decided on a metric that balances both the needs of the city and traveling boats.

romanoderoma2• 6 years ago

Because Venice is an ecosystem, it's not like the Netherlands that are in open ocean, the lagoon has a unique environment that need to be preserved as much as the city itself.

exabrial• 6 years ago

I thought the tides were necessary to flush out the canals (which transport sewage)...

Someone• 6 years ago

That’s why they built a barrier that, until the time a barrier is needed, minimizes its impact on the tides.

m3kw9• 6 years ago

Every city project should also include anti-corruption “engineering”

crazygringo2• 6 years ago

The photos that accompany this article don't give justice to the sheer scale of the barriers -- they look pretty small in most photos, especially because it's hard to get a sense of scale against the water.

Here is a better bird's-eye view:

https://www.mosevenezia.eu/multimedia/#prettyPhoto[108475f7b...

And this shows how gargantuan a single element is:

https://apnews.com/article/3b29dc70f308d93b633e2dc38c7acead

With people to scale:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sezione_paratoia.jpg

And how it works. It's not gigantic hydraulics or pistons, but rather they pump compressed air inside of them to make them buoyant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:03_movimento_paratoie.jpg

Finally, the 3 locations:

https://www.industrytap.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/MOSEp...

It's so much more impressive when you finally get a sense of how they work and their scale, which news articles rarely do.

jostmey• 6 years ago

With respect, those pictures you posted fail to capture the scale you elude too. Pictures of structures in my city look equal in magnitude

pas• 6 years ago

One element is 20x30 meter, so as "big" as this building is high: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Edif%C3%ADcio_Lo...

ehnto2• 6 years ago

Thank you for the added imagery, I just love feats of engineering like this.

Coming from rural Australia and having moved out into the world, the scale of some things never ceases to boggle my mind. I am so used to things being too hard or costly to do. Not to diminish the things we do accomplish in Aus.

A really simple example of this is bridges. I remember seeing a bridge in Japan with what must have been hundreds of pylons in the middle of the city, dancing past buildings, over intersections and under other bridges. In Aus, I feel we just wouldn't do it.

Thorentis• 6 years ago

Australia unfortunately has a lot of catching up to do infrastructure wise. Every project becomes politicised, initially under funded, ends up going over cost, key roles get outsourced. We missed the infrastructure boom that other countries had post WW2 so now we look like we're falling behind. Motorways that the US had in the 70s are only just being constructed in some of our major cities.

lmilcin• 6 years ago

"Against all odds, it worked"

No, they employed actual engineers and a sizable budget. There was no guesswork on whether it is going to work. The physics is very strong and the water flows and level changes have been monitored precisely for decades giving engineers enough data to build robust protection.

smabie• 6 years ago

So, you're saying, that there was a 100% probability of it working?

Dylan16807• 6 years ago

Not 100% but much much better than "against all odds".

aeturnum2• 6 years ago

I think you're under-rating how uncertain these large scale engineering projects are in real terms. Yes, of course, when the project has the attention and the funding and the time and the political support it needs it will work! I know that and you know that. But if you're waiting for, say, a high-speed rail in California, or the 2nd avenue subway in New York, or in New Orleans[1] you might be forgiven for being skeptical.

I was struck by the same line, but for the opposite reason. I think it's rare, today, for large scale projects to work out exactly as expected. These projects, even when executed well, require enormous amounts of money and time and skill to pull off. Many things can sabotage them. I don't blame people for being surprised they worked.

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/after-a-14-billio...

edogg• 6 years ago

I don't think the technical issues are the cause of the uncertainty in large scale projects, it is the political, right of way, and permitting issues that make it impossible to plan and execute a project. Out in the middle of the water there must not have been many people to oppose the project! And everyone in Venice was happy not to be flooded out.

I've designed and programmed control systems for about a dozen similar inflatable dams although the largest one I worked on was miniscule in comparison at 3m tall and 25m wide. My projects used a product with kevlar bladders with stainless panels on top rather than pumping air in to enormous metal enclosures.

There must be one hell of a compressor station to provide the volume of air required to get the water out of the gate panels in venice. And since the use of the flood protection will probably coincide with shit weather I bet they have diesel standby generators to power the whole operation.

brnt• 6 years ago

There is a ton of expertise with this kind of things, in particular the Netherlands. There's a lot of science done to back all of that engineering up. Yes, it is an accomplishment in its own right, but no, its not miraculous, but down to decades of diligent research.

The primitive methods used in New Orleans have always been a mystery in Dutch professional circles.

crazygringo2• 6 years ago

Others seem to disagree with you:

"Venice and MOSE: story of a failure. After scandals and cost overruns, will the flood barrier project be dismantled? Inspections show that many of the gates have been eroded by sea-life. And the hinges are at risk of cracking" [1]

"But the project, known as Mose, has been plagued by the sort of problems that have come to characterize many major Italian construction programs -- corruption, cost overruns and prolonged delays... The good news is they will discover that the building work is almost complete. The bad news is no-one is sure how it will cope with the growing phenomenon of flooding and whether it might prove too little, too late." [2]

"MOSE Project: Criticism, corruption, and court cases" [3]

[1] https://www.lastampa.it/esteri/la-stampa-in-english/2017/10/...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-weather-venice-mose...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSE_Project#Criticism,_corrup...

jariel• 6 years ago

"Against all political odds"

It took 5x longer than it should have.

That said, it works.

LockAndLol• 6 years ago

Exactly. This is the equivalent of "Thank God" after a doctor saves a patient, instead of thanking the doctor.

Thank the engineers who had to put up with nearly 40 years of corruption. BTW, the damn thing still isn't done because of politics and corruption, so I wish those engineers all the best.

jokethrowaway• 6 years ago

That's a great achievement, given how annoying the flood in Venice is... but it's not all rosy.

Corruption. Overspending. Dubious technical choices.

I would look at the Netherlands as a model for the next place to face a similar challenge.

baryphonic• 6 years ago

Agreed.

However, if even Venice can achieve this given the corruption in Italy, then maybe there's hope for our species after all.

xenospn• 6 years ago

I'm always amazed, given how corrupt Italy is - their infrastructure is incredibly advanced. Silky smooth highways and very impressive rail infrastructure.

fennecfoxen• 6 years ago

I would look to the Netherlands as a model

Amsterdam, de grote stad

Die is gebouwd op palen

Als die stad eens ommeviel

Wie zou dat dan betalen?

https://www.dmarge.com/2020/08/amsterdam-new-challenge.html

atoav2• 6 years ago

I grew up a two hours car drive from Venice and have been there for 10 times at least. It is my absolute favourite place to explore by foot, especially off the typical tourist sections. The challenges the Venetians are facing and how they are dealing with them are nothing short of amazing (although Venetians will tell you about municipal corruption).

I can't wait to go there again.

js2• 6 years ago

I've been there exactly once, with my wife and our kids. We stayed on the island. We loved it. We avoided the tourist areas during the day. The island just isn't that crowded away from a handful of locations. At night, we had the island almost to ourselves to explore.

Wandering around in the dark alleys was at first a bit unnerving. In any big city, you'd feel unsafe in such locations. But after we realized we really had nothing to fear, we relaxed and just enjoyed the experience.

In the morning, I got up early and wandered to the fish market to watch it get setup for the day.

All in all, a totally great and memorable experience. We enjoyed it as much as Rome.

Florence on the other hand... not our favorite.

Italy was a joy to visit. We hope to go back someday.

atoav2• 6 years ago

Unless you count in people getting their wallet/camera stolen by pickpockets Venice is a quite safe city. The pickpockets will be usually concentrating on very overrun touristy areas so if you avoid those it is as safe as any other North Italian city (which means I'd not be afraid to sleep out on the street with all my belongings next to me if I really had to).

tus88• 6 years ago

There was a good TV program about this during construction . Glad it has come to fruition

rurban• 6 years ago

”It works” is relative and the statement that "St Mark's Square is pretty much dry" is a lie. It is flooded as every year, a friend is just there for a visit and sent a foto. Not knee deep, but more than 15cm. Could have been worse, I guess, but it's still flooded.

bzbarsky• 6 years ago

The article talks about that: the barriers currently go up when the water level is expected to be 130cm or more (above some mean level, I guess). St. Mark's floods at 90cm according to the article.

When there was a 132cm tide, the barriers went up and St. Mark's stayed dry. The next day, the tide was 106cm, the barriers stayed down, St. Mark's flooded. What was the exact date on your friend's photo? What was the tide height that day?

thursday0987• 6 years ago

The defense system is called MOSE, the Italian for Moses, a name derived from the more functional Modulo Sperimentale Elettromeccanico, meaning Experimental Electromechanical Module.

lol i get a kick out of articles like this. why not just admit its named after Moses, the biblical figure that split the red sea?

tubularhells• 6 years ago

Did they hire a Dutch engineer? :)

Venice holds back the water for first time in 1,200 years

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