Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/31/microsoft_google_monopoly/

by sunsai • 15 years ago

76 96 15 years ago

theregister.co.uk

jleyank• 15 years ago

Pot. Kettle. Black.

siglesias• 15 years ago

Profit. Maximization.

extension• 15 years ago

Is it hypocritical to ask that their competitors be held to the same rules that they had to pay €1.35B for breaking?

Natsu3• 15 years ago

It is if they have no good evidence of wrongdoing.

mkr-hn• 15 years ago

Being hypocritical isn't the same as being wrong.

wheaties• 15 years ago

Give me a break, if I want to go search I have any choice I want. There is nothing stopping me from using Google, Bing, Yahoo, Duck Duck Go or any other service. That's the beauty of the web, it's open.

rbanffy19• 15 years ago

Minor nitpick: I think Yahoo has been using Bing search instead of its own.

dhimes• 15 years ago

You should read the article. That's not what they are complaining about- in fact, they acknowledge this directly.

EDIT relevant snippet:

On PCs it is usually not difficult for people to navigate to any search engine. Google in fact makes this point virtually every time someone raises antitrust concerns about their practices. Their defense ignores the hugely important fact that there are many other important ways that search services compete. Search engines compete to index the Web as fully as possible so they can generate good search results, they compete to gain advertisers (the source of revenue in this business), and they compete to gain distribution of their search boxes through Web sites. Consumers will not benefit from clicking to alternative sites unless all search engines have a fair opportunity to compete in each of these areas.

bad_user• 15 years ago

TL;DR -- Advertisers/websites want users, Google has users, and we don't know how the fuck to compete with that other than playing dirty.

Oh Microsoft, how I'd like for you to become even more irrelevant than you already are.

tomjen3• 15 years ago

>Consumers will not benefit from clicking to alternative sites unless all search engines have a fair opportunity to compete in each of these areas

Consumers will not benefit at all, since these companies can't index as large a portion of the web as Google could alone.

jameskilton2• 15 years ago

Full complaint: http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2...

There may be some legitimate claims here -- plenty of mention of where the DOJ has already stopped some anti-competitive behaviour from Google -- but overall it just screams "Google is KILLING us, we can't compete, so obviously there's a monopoly here, so lets legislate instead of innovate."

rick8883• 15 years ago

Funny how the tune has changed. If this was Microsoft 10+ years ago, everyone would scream Monopoly and want the problem legislated away. Now that it involves Google, a "cool" company that can "do no harm", it's fine.

pyre• 15 years ago

10+ years ago Microsoft seemed the unbeatable behemoth. Google may be a behemoth today, but I don't think that people are under the impression that they are unbeatable.

jameskilton2• 15 years ago

Well first of all it's "Do No Evil", and frankly I don't think you can compare the two. Where Microsoft 10 years ago did everything they could to force you to use their products (bundling the browser, exclusivity with all consumer computer OEMs, etc), Google has made really good products that people want to use. I'm not forced to use Gmail, or Google Talk, or Documents, but I choose to because it's the best out there.

I'm not saying Google isn't Evil, there's definitely some questionable things they've done as of late, but to try to compare them now to when MS was at its "evil" peak is disingenuous. Google built things people want to use. Microsoft built things so that you had to use them.

bertil• 15 years ago

At the time, Microsoft monopoly appeared to force intractable bugs on everyone; one had to wait months for patches, that often made things worst; the culprit was clear. Now, the main impact of Google dominant position is 10 blue results that could be more suited to your query, and that are changed depending on what people click: grey SEOs, animal instincts or customer preference for anything Google can explain bad results, unchallengeable position and Google product dominance—allowing Matt Cutts to claim the engine is neutral i.e. good. Plus, Windows was expensive, unnaturally so (copies are free, versions priced differently were the same) while Google makes sure you can check that you earned more money than they cost you before billing. Google didn't uproot a higher-end competitor with better design that boosted your self-image.

The multi-sided market dynamics are as complex, and the impact on innovation could be similarly worrying (I explore those intensively in my PhD) but the attribution of guilt is much harder.

RyanMcGreal• 15 years ago

Money quote:

"There of course will be some who will point out the irony in today’s filing. Having spent more than a decade wearing the shoe on the other foot with the European Commission, the filing of a formal antitrust complaint is not something we take lightly. This is the first time Microsoft Corporation has ever taken this step. More so than most, we recognize the importance of ensuring that competition laws remain balanced and that technology innovation moves forward."

haberman• 15 years ago

Just some historical context for the anti-competitive behaviors that Microsoft refined and perfected into an art:

Obfuscated code to prevent Windows 3.1 from running on competing MS-DOS systems like DR-DOS. Microsoft VP internal memo:

    > What the [user] is supposed to do is feel uncomfortable,
    > and when he has bugs, suspect that the problem is DR-DOS
    > and then go out to buy MS-DOS."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code

Licenses and threats that prevented Hitachi from pre-installing BeOS on in a dual boot configuration with MS-Windows. From the Be complaint:

    > Hitachi eventually explained that the terms of its license 
    > with Microsoft prohibited preinstallation of another operating 
    > system in a dual-boot configuration.  Hitachi also
    > revealed that after it notified Microsoft of its intention to 
    > preinstall BeOS, Microsoft sent two U.S. managers to Japan who 
    > expressed their “anger” with Hitachi over its arrangement with 
    > Be, and “reminded” Hitachi of the terms of its Windows 
    > license."

http://www.beincorporated.com/msft_complaint.pdf

An explicit strategy of "embrace, extend, extinguish":

    > [Former Intel exec Peter] McGeady also testified to MS's 
    > professed strategy of "embrace, extend, extinguish." MS
    > planned to "extend" the HTML standard to the point where it
    > would be incompatible with the Netscape browser and then to 
    > encourage developers to use the MS HTML such that web pages 
    > couldn't be read with Netscape's browser.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/transcript/summaries2.htm...

I could go on, but you get the idea. Compared to these, "Google makes it too hard for us to index YouTube" sounds pretty tame in comparison.

rouli• 15 years ago

April fools came early this year?

yanw• 15 years ago

That's obviously an April fool's hoax.

I mean Microsoft is bigger and richer than Google, they practically own the desktop OS and enterprise software markets, they won't accuse anyone of anti-trust because they aren't dominating search as well, would they?!

loudmax• 15 years ago

Good thing typical small businesses don't rely on software and documents that can only be rendered correctly by Microsoft products anymore. Cuz if that were the case, this suit would be extreme hypocrisy.

Sarcasm aside, this doesn't necessarily invalidate the premises of the argument. Even so, I don't see that current Google offerings have anywhere near the lock-in of Microsoft products.

gavanwoolery• 15 years ago

In other news, Pot calls Kettle "black." More at 11.

cryptoz• 15 years ago

> Secondly he accused Google of blocking Windows Mobile phones from working properly with YouTube.

Hah! I'd love to hear more details about this. Isn't it up to Microsoft to add fucking HTML5 or Flash support to their phones? How is Google doing anything but providing videos and Microsoft refusing to write code that reads those videos?

This is the dumbest complaint ever, unless there are some details we're missing...I'm curious. This is just too much, it can't be real.

ghurlman• 15 years ago

Seeing as how every YouTube video I've tried to play in a Windows Phone has worked, I fail to see what the issue is at all.

Clearly details are missing.

rbanffy19• 15 years ago

They are talking about video metadata. I really can't see what the problem is. Does Google have a private API they use for Android phones? Did Apple pay for it so that YouTube is featured on iPhones. Does Microsoft want this data for free?

recoiledsnake2• 15 years ago

This is from their blog:

First, in 2006 Google acquired YouTube—and since then it has put in place a growing number of technical measures to restrict competing search engines from properly accessing it for their search results. Without proper access to YouTube, Bing and other search engines cannot stand with Google on an equal footing in returning search results with links to YouTube videos and that, of course, drives more users away from competitors and to Google.

Second, in 2010 and again more recently, Google blocked Microsoft’s new Windows Phones from operating properly with YouTube. Google has enabled its own Android phones to access YouTube so that users can search for video categories, find favorites, see ratings, and so forth in the rich user interfaces offered by those phones. It’s done the same thing for the iPhones offered by Apple, which doesn’t offer a competing search service.

Unfortunately, Google has refused to allow Microsoft’s new Windows Phones to access this YouTube metadata in the same way that Android phones and iPhones do. As a result, Microsoft’s YouTube “app” on Windows Phones is basically just a browser displaying YouTube’s mobile Web site, without the rich functionality offered on competing phones. Microsoft is ready to release a high quality YouTube app for Windows Phone. We just need permission to access YouTube in the way that other phones already do, permission Google has refused to provide.

rbarooah11• 15 years ago

I guess you didn't read the article.

The core complaint is that YouTube isn't allowing search engines other than Google to access their metadata, preventing Bing from searching properly.

If Google is actually doing this, and is allowed to continue, then no search engine will be able to compete properly with them.

That's a pretty real and serious accusation.

latch• 15 years ago

I heard Microsoft is going to reimburse its engineers who decide to pursue a law degree as it aligns with their internal strategy to have more lawyers than coders by 2015.

quattrofan• 15 years ago

Maybe Brad could tell me why I can't install IE9 on my Windows XP netbook and need to upgrade to Win7? I thought the OS had been decoupled due to Microsoft's OS monopoly. Perhaps I should ask Google.

skrish• 15 years ago

That is a good one. May be all XP users should file complaint against MS for giving software that is NOT backward compatible and ask for free upgrade to whatever platform that supports their latest and greatest upgrades.

rbarooah11• 15 years ago

The complaint is that Google has a conflict of interest as it becomes a content provider as well as a search engine, and that it is exploiting this.

For other content providers, more search engines indexing their stuff, means more traffic. There is only upside to letting more search engines in.

For Google, hobbling other search engines indexing their content is a great way to keep their search engine on top. It's a virtuous circle for them.

In a way it's hard to see how they aren't privileging Google search in some way. Does Google Search use a public API to scrape YouTube, or is there some backend integration? If there's integration, doesn't that support Microsoft's claim?

wdr1• 15 years ago

I just saw a TV ad for a Windows 7 phone last night that heavily touted integration with Xbox Live.

Much in the spirit of Bing & Youtube, I wonder if other mobile devices will be able to integrate just as easily w/ Xbox Live?

jjcm• 15 years ago

It seems like there's a lot of people commenting here who haven't read the article in full. Some key points of it are that Microsoft isn't filing against Google Search - rather they are complaining that Google is providing meta data to other companies (apple) and are crippling Microsoft's access to it. As a result, Microsoft's Windows Phone and other devices can't build an integrated youtube app on their phone. They claim that Google is doing this because Microsoft is a search competitor.

In addition, they are filing numerous complaints against Google's ad networks, and their attempt to have unfettered and exclusive access to orphaned books.

Right now, it seems like Microsoft may have a leg to stand on in regards to the youtube metadata control. I'll await google's response to this though before I choose sides, and I'd recommend others wait as well.

Ainab• 15 years ago

I bet Google will allow access to even their search index if Microsoft starts blocking all their applications in OS level.

kbutler• 15 years ago

I've long been against Microsoft's practices, but from what I can tell, they are clearly in the right on this: Google is using it's market power to restrict competition in various ways.

This anti-competitive behavior should be stopped, regardless of the irony.

It doesn't matter if it's Google, Microsoft, Apple, the NFL, AT&T, IBM, U.S. sugar producers, or a company you haven't heard of yet - if one or more companies are leveraging market power to enter new markets or limit competition in their market, they should be stopped.

tobylane• 15 years ago

Is it really that hard to parse Youtube? These are the guys who made an operat..

I can't say it. I can't say Microsoft actually ever made an operating system. The one thing I've noticed with them is that they offer good download speeds. To get all the patches quicker.

Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google

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