I'm Regretting Going WP7

http://www.theleagueofpaul.com/im-regretting-going-wp7

by johns • 15 years ago

109 64 15 years ago

Jarred2• 15 years ago

I'm afraid I agree with this post. I bought a Samsung Focus on Black Friday with AT&T's Buy One Get One Free deal. What I like about it is the nice looking user interface and the web browser. (As a phone itself Samsung Focus is awesome). The actual Windows Phone 7 OS is awful. I put in a 16gb memory card a few months ago and it's incredibly slow. Everything takes a long time to load. By "long time to load" I mean 5+ minutes to open an app. All of the apps are tremendously slower after installing that memory card. That's most likely due to the memory card itself, but it's practically unheard of for phones to have dramatic performance reductions after installing a memory card. That makes me believe it's the software.

I really bought it because A) I like to try new things and B) I like developing with .NET/Silverlight because of the awesome development tools.

I had a G1 before and although not as slow as that was (I updated it to 2.2 at the time), this OS isn't a good buy.

The phone itself though is really nice, it has a high resolution screen (480x800) with a 5 mega-pixel camera and it's really light.

CrazedGeek4• 15 years ago

It definitely is the memory card- WP7 isn't designed to have removable memory, and Samsung apparently didn't get that memo: http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/windows-phone-7s-microsd-...

kogir• 15 years ago

The slowness is the memory card. I have a Focus with a high end memory card and it's great.

WP7 software RAIDs (kinda) the SD card with the internal flash and treats it all the same. One nice thing about it is that unlike my Nexus One, all storage is first class storage. Apps, music, photos, video - All of it can go anywhere, with no special casing. The bad thing is that if your SD card is slow, everything is slow.

That said, Microsoft should have known OEMs would expose the card slot, and that users would put in slow cards. They should have gracefully handled it, or had the OS ignore/reject crappy cards, like they did with ReadyBoost on Windows.

underwater• 15 years ago

As others have said, you're not supposed to replace the memory card for WP7 mobiles. I have a LG Optimus and I've never had any slowness issues.

I was concerned about the lack of upgradable memory before the purchase but it's nice to not have to worry about switching in and out cards and worrying about exactly where anything is saved. I did make sure I purchased a 16MB model though, being stuck with 8MB would suck.

zentechen2• 15 years ago

Here's a thread on xda-developer forum of working MicroSD cards list

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=834144

Confirmed Working(Data remains after soft reset):

Centon 8GB Class 6

Kingston 4GB Class 4

Kingston 16GB Class 4

Microcenter 16GB Class 2

Patriot 16GB Class 2

PNY 8GB Class 4

PNY 16GB Class 2

SanDisk 8GB Class 2

SanDisk 16GB Class 4

Currently Unstable/Unsure:

Kingston 8GB Class 4

Kingston 32GB Class 4

SanDisk 16GB Class 2

SanDisk 32GB Class 2

Confirmed Not Working(Data gone after soft reset):

A-Data

A-Data 4GB Class 6

A-Data 8GB Class 6

A-Data 16GB Class 6

Lexar 16GB Class 6

Transcend 8GB Class 6

Transcend 16GB Class 6

Also, just found Patriot 16GB Class 4 on Amazon, it now claims it works on Samsung Focus

http://www.amazon.com/MicroSD-Memory-Samsung-Mobile-MicroSDH...

Jarred2• 15 years ago

Thanks for the list.

When I bought a memory card from Fry's I just picked a cheap 16GB one

Which happens to be that Patriot 16GB Class 4.

I did perform the reset and all of the setting up upon initially putting it in

I do also have a lot of music, my phone has around gigabyte or two of leftover space on it but it should never be this slow.

d_r• 15 years ago

Sorry to the OP. Many people I know swear by their iPhones. And with those for whom iOS doesn't fit (for whatever reason: Apple's idiosyncrasies, carrier/phone choice, app/OS choice, etc.), Android is an excellent alternative where Angry Birds runs just as well.

WM7, on the other hand, still sounds like a black sheep, so I'm always curious to hear how someone decides to opt for this choice. I think the most common I hear is "I was waiting for a long time, and I was hoping this time Microsoft got it right."

Signed, a former loyal Microsoft customer/fan who one day stopped waiting.

CrazedGeek4• 15 years ago

I got a WP7 phone (the HTC HD7) after realizing that I had a top-of-the-line Android phone (the HTC Evo) and, even with CyanogenMod, it still felt really slow. Almost worse than an iPhone 3G. For me, WP7 feels a lot better than Android or iOS.

GeneralMaximus2• 15 years ago

Have you tried CM7? One hour after installing the CM7 release candidate, I found I was in love with Android. It's like upgrading from a cheapass Windows XP netbook to a MacBook Pro with an SSD.

zacharypinter2• 15 years ago

Like you and the linked article, I really enjoy working with the WP7 development stack. I'm currently working (with 3 other devs) on a mobile application for 4 platforms (iOS, Android, WP7, and JQuery Mobile).

Even having skipped an entire sprint (~10 days) to focus more on Android, the WP7 app is progressing along further and faster than the other clients. Just having support for (albeit limited) databinding is a huge win. Plus, you get great looking apps pretty much for free with the theming defaults.

That said, I have access to a few Windows phones (HTC Surround, HTC HD7, and some keyboard phone) and I would not be able to switch to any of them over my Nexus One. Dealbreakers for me:

* The search button is locked to Bing (not configurable)

* The browser is not only IE, but a crappy offshoot of an old version of IE (I believe IE7 w/ a few patches)

* No Pandora

trotsky3• 15 years ago

I own both an iPhone and a couple of Android phones. I think both platforms have some pretty significant issues. From my perspective, I don't appreciate the lockout of competitive applications on iOS (browsers, etc.) and Apple's attempt to leverage their platform to force their content businesses to the forefront (required in app purchases, etc). Android seems to have bred a pervasive ecosystem of spyware, and has big issues with keeping the OS upgraded on most phones. Both platforms suffer from serious delays in addressing vulnerabilities in the OS and webkit browsers.

Which isn't to say that I expect(ed) WP7 to be any better in those regards, though there was always hope. I didn't go out and buy one/start developing for them, but I can certainly understand how someone might come to choose door #3.

There is always no better choice until suddenly there is one.

rbanffy3• 15 years ago

> I can certainly understand how someone might come to choose door #3.

HP/Palm has a very good door #3... I am in love with my Palm Pre.

masklinn• 15 years ago

I'd still put more money on WebOS than on WP7 though.

admiralpumpkin• 15 years ago

Apple doesn't restrict other browsers on iOS.

contextfree• 15 years ago

For WP7, I like the design, I like the .net development environment and it does what I want a phone to do. I generally find it more convenient than the I-Pod Touch and the "missing features" aren't things I personally can't live without (well, or I just use my I-Pod for them)

cygwin98• 15 years ago

Just want to say that you can do iphone/android app dev in C# by using Monotouch/MonoDroid. Of course, you have to write a different UI layer for each platform.

ugh2• 15 years ago

Do people even know or care about the difference between Windows phones and Android phones? My sister certainly doesn’t. There is the iPhone (which she doesn’t like at all) and then there are all other smartphones, some of which she quite likes.

When she talks about cell phones she talks, with the exception of the iPhone (which she just calls iPhone), about manufacturers – HTC, Samsung – and she only recently said that she quite likes the HTC Mozart (which, to my surprise, runs Windows Phone 7).

ugh2• 15 years ago

zyphlar, for some strange reason your comment is dead.

Here is your text: “She'll like it until she realizes it actually sucks. Which is why consumer electronics manufacturers can still turn a profit in last place. But eventually she'll see everyone else doing cool things she can't do, and she'll switch. Or convince herself she didn't want to do those things.”

The HTC Mozart was recommended to her from a friend – I’m really not all that sure that the differences between WP7 and Android matter to all that many people.

DanielRibeiro• 15 years ago

I feel a bit sad that this is so true: Android is an excellent alternative where Angry Birds runs just as well.

worldvoyageur• 15 years ago

I guess web apps are the only viable way to cut out the petty bureaucrats and actually get product to customers.

zmmmmm• 15 years ago

Umm, curious why you're ignoring Android in this assessment?

Once you've paid your $25, believe me there is little bureaucracy in the process of submitting an Android app.

ryanhuff• 15 years ago

I wonder how long that will last though. Google just hasn't seem serious about developing and nurturing the Android Market. If somebody like Amazon came along and relieved Google of the burden, would Google take them up on the offer? Amazon would run it more like Apple runs the AppStore, albeit without the competitive restrictions.

credo• 15 years ago

It isn't great that Telstra customers have to wait for their operator to approve WP7 updates. Of course, this still sounds better than the Android model (where many customers can never get upgrades for their phones).This is a case where Apple has a clearly superior and more user-friendly model.

However, aside from that, the post just seems to have a laundry list of minor complaints about the marketplace. Some of these problems have existed on itunesconnect as well. (For instance, on one occasion, I had to use Firefox for a part of the app submission, because Safari couldn't do the job)

I'm surprised that these issues are the cause of his regret. (Note: I say this an iOS developer, who considered WP7, but decided against it).

zyphlar3• 15 years ago

Apple has a superior update model? Sure in theory, but I'm not aware of many significant updates to an iDevice that would be comparable to the Android update history. It seems like each phone gets one significant upgade before being phased out 18 months later, same with Android except with Android you have the flexibility of complete customization (and the customization is what causes update delays.)

sliverstorm• 15 years ago

iOS and Android didn't exactly come out of the gate rockin' the party either. In fact, copy/paste was one of the very initial complaints about iOS.

Not that it excuses it, but if the competitors are anything to judge by, don't expect the One Ring to Rule Them right off the bat.

microtonal2• 15 years ago

Maybe, but iOS has supported copy/paste for a while now, and iOS is the standard that people expect from a smartphone.

poloniculmov2• 15 years ago

Symbian and Windows Mobile supported copy/paste for a good period of time before iOS and Symbian/Windows was the standard that people expected from a smartphone.

alexqgb2• 15 years ago

So much for turning a late entry into an advantage by taking notes on the pioneer's struggles, and avoiding all their big mistakes.

An experience like the one described would have been par for the course in 2007 or 2008. But 2011? When it really has to be humming from Day 1? WTF times a million.

If this is what's going to save the ghost of Ericsson, they're toast.

hollerith• 15 years ago

>If this is what's going to save the ghost of Ericsson, they're toast.

Do you mean Nokia, the company that just abandoned their own software platforms and signed a deal with Microsoft?

alexqgb2• 15 years ago

Yes, I did. But I didn't notice my error before the 'edit' option expired. ;-)

Ruudjah• 15 years ago

Html5 is the new app platform. Microsoft trying to push silverlight is really just another way of their triple E strategy (embrace, extend, extinguish). In this case, embracing web apps, extending it by their .NET platform, then trying to extinguish html5 using Silverlight.

This time, it won't be so easy as IE6: Google bets on html5, Apple (although somehwat), and they both have very good browsers already.

Nice try MSFT.

regularfry• 15 years ago

It really is a shame. The guts of Silverlight are really nice, and the dev tools are well above par.

It's just a shame it's shackled to Microsoft's marketing machine.

aeoth• 15 years ago

Err, post author here...

@d_r: Had Android, just last week my Milestone finally got Froyo. The dev tools - particularly UI - just don't exist. I like to be able to program for whatever I have. That's not going into how bug riddled either Android or far more likely Moto's Android implementation was - including gems like rebooting far more often than WP7, played music at random times without touching it, having to reboot the phone if it was put into flight mode to get signal back, etc. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good things about Android, but wasn't for me. v3 (when its on phones), might be though - the improvements and more attention to UI/consistency are looking really nice.

Yes, there was certainly a fair bit of "I hope they got it right this time" to it. If they hadn't lied and delivered the updates when and how they said originally, it may be a different story.

@credo: they're more the most recent issues that have caused regret. As a developer, getting my (few) apps up there has been a nightmare, even with help from MSFT AU's DPE trying to speed things up.

TillE• 15 years ago

The Milestone is utter crap, and the reason I will never buy another Motorola product again (it took them how long to finally release Froyo, months after Gingerbread was available on other devices?). There's a port of CM7, though, which is a significant improvement:

http://android.doshaska.net/cm7

Can't fix the defective headphone jack in software, though.

As far as I'm concerned, the only Android devices worth talking about are the Nexus phones. Everything else is a second-class citizen. And yeah, going with Java and shoving XML everywhere...ugh. Fortunately the NDK is now good enough to develop a game entirely in C++, so it doesn't bother me.

csomar• 15 years ago

From what I read, all his problems are with the Marketplace? We have read about that crappy update more than once and for requiring your to use IE, I don't find that quite abusing, since Apple itself requires that your install QuickTime to watch movies on their website.

rbanffy3• 15 years ago

He also complains not all phones will be upgraded to the newest WP7 releases, varying with device, carrier and country.

If WP7 becomes too problematic, why bother with it. It's not like the devices are flying off the shelf anyway.

alex_c2• 15 years ago

Do we know any sales numbers so far?

jcr• 15 years ago

aeoth, I didn't get a chance to read the article yet due to...

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  Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

...(intentionally snipped)... Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:4.0.30319; ASP.NET Version:4.0.30319.1

My email address is in my profile. Please contact me.

wslh• 15 years ago

Wait 2 years. The time for the commoditization of the mobile phone/tablet market.

seanalltogether2• 15 years ago

"1. Don't submit an app with anything but IE."

This same holds true with IOS dev center and Safari. For all of apples talk about html5 and standards and all that, their own internal pages don't appear to be tested on anything other then safari.

gcheong• 15 years ago

I haven't used anything other than Firefox and so far have not had any problems. Do you have any specific examples?

seanalltogether2• 15 years ago

I've had buttons in both the provisioning portal and itunes connect simply do nothing unless i was using safari.

zentechen2• 15 years ago

WP7 got its merits

Development tools and technical documentations are outstanding. Visual Studio has excellent WP7 support. The submission process was actually quite smooth. Never had problem except, yes, IE only. Shame on MS. The phone user experience is called Metro, the icons are actually Tiles, original design and different from the icon-based iOS and Android. I would say, for once, MS tried to not be a copycat.

What's bad

My biggest headache, the phone build-in search is useless. The Marketplace search is also useless, and it crashes a lot and had to restart the phone to be able to use the Marketplace again. Little apps available in Marketplace, 10,000(WP7) vs 150,000(Android) vs. 400,000(iOS), though this will changes over time as WP7 picks up momentum. No copy & paste. NoDo is supposed to add this feature ,but the roll out is WAY TOO SLOW (my Samsung Focus is the last device on the list). Overall, I am still anxious to see how WP7 will do in 2011.

nigelsampson• 15 years ago

Some of these I think are valid points, the update process needs to be improved. Currently it feels like the WP7 update process sits somewhere between iOS and Android, all the problems of both and the benefits of none. Smaller updates released more regularly would go a long way to solve these issues.

The marketplace update process I've never had a problem and I've used both Firefox and Chrome never IE. I'd love to hear some of the marketplace rules that he feels are broken. Most to me seem pretty up front.

I'm Regretting Going WP7

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