No Country for Young Men: China's testosterone problem and the effects of the one-child policy

http://tnr.com/story_print.html?id=06d65840-0997-482e-a84d-b09b61a7b0e5

by robg • 18 years ago

29 35 18 years ago

ulf• 18 years ago

i think that is only one of many points in the nearer future of countries like China or India that will have a lot of repercussions...

mynameishere• 18 years ago

Back when I subscribed to Forbes, I remember an editorial suggesting how wonderful China's gender problem was...think of all the female-hungry Chinese engineers we can import into the USA! No shit, Forbes magazine said that. It was then that I realized the elite would gladly sell my organs on a penny profit.

At any rate, expect a steady flow of paid-for brides moving into China. Those billions of dollars sitting in China's central banks can only go one place, and we only have so many things they want to buy.

giardini2• 18 years ago

Brides? Why so much trouble? Japan will solve your problem!

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And Tanjansu can cook! Modules are available for 16 varieties of Chinese, Japanese and McDonald's cuisine.

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jrockway• 18 years ago

Yeah, hilarious... but people still use each other for "reproduction" or even, gasp, conversation! It may surprise you to hear this, but some people actually want to have a family instead of spending all day fucking a robot.

eugenejen6• 18 years ago

Do you mean porns? I mean seriously because that was my thought before. Unfortunately there is no piracy control in china for digital download. Even Chinese government tries to suppress it but it just can't be stopped.

But for most Chinese men, they only like East Asians. So most porns there are made from Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Of course some of them now import some girls from Ukraine for brides when they make big money. But that's rare. Most of them thought American females are too large for them to handle.

daniel-cussen• 18 years ago

On the other hand, these engineers will desist from science at a later age than if they could easily marry.

biohacker422• 18 years ago

The deep and strong custom of boys over girls is fascinating. In eastern Europe and a lot of other places, girls are the ones who are valuable, for obvious reasons. And by obvious I am talking in Darwinian terms.

So the only way I can think that a custom like that can survive is if people have no way to control the sex of children. But now suddenly they do.

It is hard to explain to people from the new world just how powerful culture can be. Old world tribal customs culture, not Mozart and Voltaire culture. You can fight and break laws, but do not ever break customs!

I've heard people say that a Chinese proverb about raising girls is something about watering someone else's garden. I worry things like that will go away only if the ancient customs' back is truly broken.

Let the ratio of girls to boys go completely out of hand. Then sit back and watch an old stupid custom die a painful death.

eugenejen6• 18 years ago

Is this the reason why I think girls from East Europe are more attractive? It is interesting to look at this from sexual selection point of view.

On the other hand. I really wish the old tradition in china goes away. There was a time in the 20th century when both Communists and Nationalists in China pushed forward gender egalitarian agenda. But it only reached urban area and the people in country sides are still deeply rooted in old tradition (but at the same time, we all know the people in country side have to favor male off springs for agriculture purpose) So we are watching a very big experiment in society that may last for 100 years.

biohacker422• 18 years ago

I credit the greater genetic diversity (when compared to West Europeans) of East Europeans for out good looks.

chaostheory• 18 years ago

if mainland Chinese society made a shift to be more gender equal (politically and economically), this wouldn't be (or stay) a problem...

This is a ticking time bomb, both there and in India

eugenejen6• 18 years ago

Arab World also has a similar problem. And anger from young men there already exploded and made a landmark in NYC. (I lived in LES in NYC in 9/11/2001 and breathed for a month of air with asbestos and smoke.) So we've already known what is possible to be done by angry young men.

-- edit --

Why this is considered offensive? Will anyone tell me?

hugh• 18 years ago

It's possible you're being modded down for your poor spelling and grammar. I've modded you back up to 1.

nailer• 18 years ago

It's a perfect solution. Have 40 million extra men? Tired of people declaring independence?

Solve two in one: start a war with, or Kosovo-style-people-flood Taiwan and Tibet.

pg2• 18 years ago

How many children do the 10 most powerful political leaders in China have? I'd be curious, if anyone knows.

mrdorian• 18 years ago

they all have more than one child

bilbo0s2• 18 years ago

China is run by what seems to me to be effectively a 'board of directors', these men are too old to have been affected by those policies. When I say old, I'm talking OLD too. We think John McCain is old. By Chinese standards he would be just getting to the point where they MIGHT let him have a say in who the next president is. Seriously, these guys are so old it is RIDICULOUS. Their presidential elections work something like this:

-Small number of, seriously old, think in the 90 year old range, guys get together and decide they've had it with the 70 year old president. China's economy is only growing at 10% a year, or something ridiculous like that. Their stock exchanges only offer up surges in the 40-50% range per year, and GOSH DARNIT!! 'How long can the shareholders be reasonably expected to tolerate such pitiful returns?' They lament. 'China's future is at stake!!!' 'That means our CHILDREN are at stake!!!' 'Why they may even have to clean their own toilets!!!' 'Won't someone think of the CHILDREN!!!'

-To address this crisis in the portfolios of the Chinese people . . . er . . . I mean . . . crisis in the leadership of the Chinese people. They have found some spritely, dynamic, new young blood, by young I mean 60, and they say he is the new guy in charge.

-All the leaders of the communist party, being obedient mentees of these old guys, sing the new guy's praises, elect him president, and the old guy goes home. (Only not really . . . see he'll BE one of those old guys now, so he'll ALWAYS have some influence)

Bit of an oversimplification, but not much. When I first studied this I thought, 'man this sounds JUST like the process of a board of directors'. But if the rest of the world wants to call it a political system, who am I to question? Fine, it's a political system.

An interesting test might be to try to get China to do what we want another way. Let's forget about armies, and navies, and Taiwan, and democracy, and demonstrations. Let's try causing a blip in their quarterly results. I'd imagine the speed with which change would come would make our heads spin. That's just my theory though.

natrius• 18 years ago

Firefox 3 supports pre-wrap, which I think would stop pre text from forcing horizontal scrolling.

http://ejohn.org/blog/new-css-in-firefox-3/

bokonist• 18 years ago

I think you're pretty much correct. It's more like the board of trustees of a "non-profit", since the board elects its own members, rather than having shareholders elect the board. The system works reasonably well. The president is selected for competence and there is a stable secession process.

I think it is foolish to argue that China should be more democratic. People today forget how dangerous democracies are that don't have systematic anti-jingoistic indoctrination. Read the history of how universal suffrage in Europe from 1880-1914 led to the rise of militarist-nationalist politicians ( Stephan Zweig's The World of Yesterday is a great book on this topic). Do we really want to see the Chinese equivalent of Bill O'Reilly and Ernst Lissauer? I'll take the 90 year old men, thank you very much ...

rms4• 18 years ago

A very powerful group of Chinese leaders has come from their preeminent engineering university. Hu Jintao's degree is in Hydraulic Engineering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_clique

rms4• 18 years ago

Also keep in mind that the President has multiple titles and roles that he slowly gains control of. I think Hu Jintao now has control of everything that he gets control of? Until he retires and picks the new president, of course.

China will reform eventually, as soon as a president decides that his successor will be democratically elected.

eugenejen6• 18 years ago

I don't know who are the 10 most powerful ones. But considering the policy was introduced in 1979. So for any politicians who were married before 1979 and started to have a family then, they may have more than 1.

At the same time. I read frequently from Chinese news that government officials under 60s charged with corruptions. Most of them have several mistresses and had a child with each of them. I don't think that will be counted officially since in China such non martial relationships are not legal.

ivankirigin• 18 years ago

I think you can have more kids for a fee. The leaders of China are mostly rich.

rms4• 18 years ago

You can have more kids and no one is arrested or killed but the extra children are cut off from government services.

rms4• 18 years ago

Hu has one boy and one girl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jintao

msluyter• 18 years ago

What's so scary about this is that the quickest and surest way to eliminate a surplus of young men is war.

jsn• 18 years ago

Or, one possible way to prepare for some big future war is to facilitate a surplus of young single men. And that should apply equally well to different kinds of "hot" and "cold" war.

eugenejen6• 18 years ago

It is not so scary in history of China. Chinese waged wars/feuds against each other in 90% of the recorded history. China always have surplus male population to be wasted.

But wars before were contained in regional provinces or mainland. Considering now China owns nuclear war heads and ICBMs. Then any one who is crazy enough will be a threat to U.S.A. and neighbors of China. Especially U.S.A. was considered as a potential enemy by them.

It is the same thing like U.S.A didn't need to care who those Wahhabi jihadists before. But now they project their anger on U.S. and have means to create collateral damage in U.S.A. Then it becomes nuisances to U.S.

(P.S. I am a half Chinese and half Taiwanese in U.S.A.)

omouse• 18 years ago

"In a round-up last year, Beijing cops seized 3,400 guns and knives used in war games"

WTF! Knives?! These guys are hardcore.

jobeirne• 18 years ago

Yet another fine testament to government regulation!

parenthesis• 18 years ago

This is interesting data in this connection:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

rahulgarg• 18 years ago

My answer was different : Rapture.

No Country for Young Men: China's testosterone problem and the effects of the one-child policy

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