SmileBASIC 4 for Nintendo Switch

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/smilebasic-4-switch/

by Fr0styMatt88 • 6 years ago

132 68 6 years ago

blondin2• 6 years ago

i waited forever for a release on the DS. it finally came but on the switch. also the developers told me that a switch lite wouldn't be the best experience (not TV output among a few things).

niconii5• 6 years ago

Previous versions of SmileBASIC also exist on the DSi (under the name "Petit Computer") and 3DS (simply called "SmileBASIC").

jquast2• 6 years ago

In order to upload your works to the server or unlimited downloading of the published works, you need to purchase Server Tickets in the game.

ok.. so it costs money, but if I want to share a game I write, or look at others, I'd have to buy some kind of ticket? $9 to upload a limited amount of code, https://ec.nintendo.com/AU/en/titles/70010000010544/consumab...

What's next, some kind of "purchase another 100 lines of code" DLC package? You know, as a kid I learned BASIC from school friends, neighbors, and family members, and taught BASIC to many more, by trading the source code freely. Books like "BASIC Computer Games" were gotten at the library for free. My computer booted into BASIC for free.

Now I realize how disadvantaged I was, this is the future -- teaching children about "platforms", that hold your code hostage, monetize on your creative works, and nickel and dime away your creative energy.

To think, all that nasty PIRATING of BASIC code !! Without paying anyone?! Thousands of dollars on the table, finally somebody is monetizing this!

niconii5• 6 years ago

Well, let me try explaining how it works, because they honestly do a pretty bad job of it.

So SmileBASIC 4 itself costs 25 USD (40 AUD).

A server ticket costs 5 USD (9 AUD). Despite the name, these tickets never expire or get used up. How these work is as follows:

- If you have 0 tickets, you can only download once every 8 hours, and you can't upload anything.

- If you have n tickets, where n > 0, then you have unlimited downloads, and can upload 10*n projects at once. (Note that you can take down old projects to make room for new ones.)

Personally speaking, unless you really need to upload a lot of projects at once (and 10 slots goes further than you might think), you really only need one ticket.

The reason this server ticket system exists is because SmileBoom is a pretty small company (their site lists 8.2 million yen in capital, about 76,000 USD or 120,000 AUD), and this helps offset server costs.

In any case, if you still find this system distasteful, there's nothing stopping you from continuing to do it the old way, manually typing in programs by hand. That said, I don't think it's so unreasonable to ask for a few bucks for server access, especially as a one-time fee.

(Note also that originally the plan was for SmileBASIC 4 to only be sold as a bundle with one ticket. The standalone version was added because there were issues with it showing up in the eShop properly otherwise.)

EDIT: One more note: this is a project limit, but you can have multiple files in a project, and the maximum project upload size is 20 MB. As you probably know, text doesn't take up much space, so you can cram a LOT of small programs into one project if you need to.

growt• 6 years ago

Do when I buy this ticket can I write my programs on a pc with a keyboard and transfer them to the console via server?

shepherdjerred• 6 years ago

Server costs? Is someone uploading gigabytes of code?

badsectoracula5• 6 years ago

The entire console market is retarded like that: you have to sign onerous NDAs, pay incredibly high fees for the "privilege" of creating additional software for the console vendors and thus making their consoles more valuable and all you get is some shoddy SDK with awful licensing terms (what? You used some (L)GPL'd code as your engine's base? Sorry, no can do. - You wrote your engine in an open source language that has no official support and you ported the runtime? Haha, LOL, no buddy, you can't give this back to the mainline developers, this contains our secret sauce, sucks to be you but you'll need to maintain this forever).

I have a PSVita and i really like its hardware, but honestly it was a waste of money since there isn't anything i can do with it. Switch also looks nice, but again it will soon be useless.

The best you can hope for with these is for someone to find some security flaw after the vendor has stopped supporting the device, that will allow homebrew development in the future. But by that time you might as well buy a cheap Chinese android device (or even better something like GPD Win that is a full proper PC in handheld form - though that isn't very cheap) and chances are it'll be both faster and better.

0ld• 6 years ago

Switch also looks nice, but again it will soon be useless.
The best you can hope for with these is for someone to find some security flaw after the vendor has stopped supporting the device, that will allow homebrew development in the future.

Earlier Switches all have an unfixable hardware flaw, and long since there are cfw's (several), homebrew and even a hb eshop.

Even if the new ones are patched, you can easily buy a used prechacked (or not) one. The hackable serials number batches are easy to check, just google for it.

pjmlp5• 6 years ago

I love that privilege, it is what keeps consoles moderately safe from the copy cats garbage of online stores without any kind of quality control.

Kaze4042• 6 years ago

Fwiw both the Vita and the Switch have had homebrew support for a while.

Razengan3• 6 years ago

We need a modern “codable console” in the spirit of the Commodore 64 and Sinclair Spectrum etc.

Something you can just unbox and start playing and programming on right away. The Raspberry Pi is not it, the iPad isn’t it, and neither is any Android. The remakes/revivals of the C64 etc. are not it either.

Something like a laptop that boots into a friendly GUI/CLI hybrid within 1 second, and doesn’t require the internet or signing-up or any other bullshit. Just a big fat blinking cursor.

lifeformed• 6 years ago

Pico-8: https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php

DanBC• 6 years ago

The closest is probably BBC Micro:Bit, but that uses the Internet. https://microbit.org/

There's also the Maximite: http://geoffg.net/maximite.html

_b8r0• 6 years ago

Well there's this thing I've been working on and off on for a while: https://mastodon.social/tags/ZX20

It has it's own BASIC but also emulates a Spectrum too. It's not yet quite full speed. I think beeper i/o is slowing things down.

When it's ready it'll be sold in kit form, so kids build it from scratch with their parents. The plan is to eventually have a space for kids to share their stuff, but no way am I charging kids for being creative.

lucidguppy2• 6 years ago

https://www.specnext.com/ <--- these guys just need to make more.

pjmlp5• 6 years ago

There are plenty of them to choose from.

http://www.ic0nstrux.com/

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-go/

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-go-advance/

https://arduboy.com/

https://www.specnext.com/

badsectoracula5• 6 years ago

There have been many attempts but all were failures because they never got any traction or the people behind them couldn't manage what they were making or both. One of my favorites is GCW Zero [0], great little MIPS-based handheld running Linux and easy to port stuff to it (it has SDL, OpenGL and other stuff available out of the box), except... there was some Kickstarter drama or whatever (i think the original Chinese manufacturer screwed up) which had the maker (who was from UK i think) being attacked by everyone and he couldn't handle it so he disappeared from the internet from basically the beginning and only communicated updates, etc, very sporadically and only through others. And for pretty much the entirety of its existence it was incredibly hard to find units to buy (people were importing units from anywhere and they'd quickly sold out to the few distributors that managed to get units). Both of these basically killed the project despite being a great device.

And of course there was the whole OUYA circus - the device was ok (the controller had some connectivity issues but those were fixed later) but the company's communication was atrocious. OUYA was the first "android microconsole" and the last time developers actively targeted these "consoles" and used their branding as an official target, something that not even Nvidia (for Shield) and Amazon (for Fire TV) managed to do despite being much bigger companies, yet they pissed everyone and everything away with their incompetence.

But the main thing you need for any of these is to get it in front of people (or at their hands for the handhelds). You wrote that "Raspberry Pi is not it", but IMO it is by far the closest to "it" because of its sheer volume of sales. All it needs is some form of standard for developers to target and users to easily set up and perhaps some (optional) dressing from whoever comes up with the standard. I haven't seen anything like that though, the closest is RetroPie but that is for emulators and what i'm thinking is for running native ARM games.

[0] http://www.gcw-zero.com/

fit2rule• 6 years ago

Open Pyra console:

https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

Disclaimer: avid fan of the prior generation, Open Pandora console ..

blondin2• 6 years ago

thank you!

this is why i was drawn to smilebasic since i heard of it. plus nintendo is such a good platform already.

i see people talking about the arduinos, raspberry pis, and all these micro devices for which you have to pick additional components among myriads and you will be very lucky if 10 more people have the same setup that you have.

these people are missing an important point about platform and sharing here.

i also love pico-8 and all the fantasy computers. they somehow just don't feel real. and they have a different sharing problem.

hedora• 6 years ago

Raspbian was close to this last time I checked. You have to click the start menu, and pick the right development environment, but they have a few good looking options.

flipcoder• 6 years ago

The companies making classic consoles really missed an opportunity with this. Instead of making them temporary specialty items, they could have added a basic API and way to browse and download community games. I know this would have needed moderation and warning messages for the normal user, but it could have been a "developer mode".

Right now the closest thing we have is a linux system running emulation station. It at least has custom apps called "ports", but it's missing a built in app browser/downloader for those, though.

Atari was the closest to realize that potential but completely screwed it up. They put in an actual decent system but it made it too expensive. (https://atarivcs.com/) If this was around the $100 price point, I could see it doing amazingly well even if it was less powerful But more expensive than a nintendo switch? wtf

The pi absolutely has potential to be a programmable game console with the right distro and applications, it just isn't quite there yet.

Angostura• 6 years ago

I presume your ZX-Spectrum didn't come with an online softwar distribution service. Mind certainly didn't. I typed it in from printouts like we all did.

grawprog2• 6 years ago

Not only that, but you need to actually pay to download other people's games by the looks of it.

or unlimited downloading of the published works,

Even if you don't intend to write any of your own code, a server ticket seems to be required to even download code.

thought_alarm• 6 years ago

My computer booted into BASIC for free.

Your computer wasn't free, and you still had to buy disks if you wanted to save your work or trade with friends.

bitwize2• 6 years ago

I was gonna say, if they're going to paywall publishing your programs, we might just see the rise of "type-in" listings once again.

znpy• 6 years ago

You know, as a kid I learned BASIC from school friends, neighbors, and family members, and taught BASIC to many more, by trading the source code freely.

Well you can still do all fo that. Get your friends to send you their BASIC code and type that yourself into the console.

Even as a kid, you weren't paying somebody to host your code.

jquast2• 6 years ago

Not that it matters, but I traded lots of BASIC code on local bbs’s for free, and on floppies and cassettes for free. I didn’t really mind pedaling my bicycle to share my next release of “Pong” or whatever I was up to, kids love sneakernets, but I don’t think this program supports any form of sneakernet, that’s a real shame for kids who don’t have credit cards and most certainly won’t be given permission for “in game purchase”, few parents will understand or approve such a thing.

That’s fine, nobody said this is for kids, or for education, it is what it is, I respect the effort and design to some degree, but won’t fund it. it goes against the very spirit of BASIC as an easy, educational, and naturally open source language.

my other beef is why should content creators, who add value to the platform, pay more money?

I really enjoy publishing FOSS, I maintain half a dozen of pypi’s top 100 packages, I feel joy and pride when I see my packages fly by on screens of colleagues. but if pypi starts charging me “server tickets” to publish these packages, strange EULA’s that sign my rights over, and to have to delete the less popular packages to make room to publish new ones, etc. I’d feel really damn sore about it.

I’d publish it as PDF images and instruct users Like you to print it out and type it in, or dish out $9. This would be my rebellion for not getting a single penny for the thousands of volunteer hours that other people are now paying to receive a copy of. It just rolls my brain around and around to think about both players and creators paying money.

jchw• 6 years ago

I’m currently mindblown at one of the programs publicly available for download in the software, which is a NEC PC-8801 emulator... I peeked at the BASIC code and it does indeed appear to be emulating a Z80 and it even includes support for loading real BIOS dumps and floppy images seemingly.

I can’t find much information about the software online but I think it was developed for one of the competitions and I’d highly recommend checking it out if you decide to purchase SmileBASIC 4.

qilo• 6 years ago

Can you share a link? Do you think would it be possible to play with the code from the (free) book "Machine code for beginners" [0] with that emulator? I'd like to get some familiarity with machine code, and thought maybe it's a simplest way to start with. Or maybe you can give other suggestions for the emulator?

From the book (page 3):

The book is specially written for computers with a Z80 or 6502 microprocessor.

[0] https://usborne.com/browse-books/features/computer-and-codin...

tabs_masterrace• 6 years ago

Very cool. This will probably get some kids onto the path of a future programming career. I remember my first PC running MS DOS, being young and curios I just had to try everything, eventually stumbling upon Pascal, and that would basically shape my adult life.

Sometimes I worry about the new generation though, despite the prevalence of technology and information, most grow up on locked down mobile systems, which are made for consumption and don't promote creating very well. They are also very opaque to what's actually happening under the hood. Mobile UI is an godsend for user experience, but it's also one heck of an abstraction layer.

Maybe that's why so many people are trying their luck with becoming influencers, streamers or youtubers, because that's seems like the kind of content creation these devices promote.

Anyway, on the same vein, I was positively surprised when Overwatch added some kind of visual coding environment for custom games a year or so ago. Seemed a bit silly, but give kids the tools, and they'll create. I'm sure that alone will have a real positive impact for many young adults.

thedevelopnik• 6 years ago

I’ve gotten my kid very into Nintendo Labo. You build toys from cardboard that hold the controllers and so you can drive a car in the game with a cardboard wheel, for example. But the whole thing is a veneer on learning how the toys work through additional activities, and then a drag and drop programming interface is available so you can make your own interactive tools using the Switch. He’s not quite old enough to grasp the programming interface, but the discovery section demystifies the abstraction layer of the controller. Its not just a box. Its a box you open up and change.

mobiledev2014• 6 years ago

If you haven't bought the VR kit, they added a full 3D editor on top of the engine from the first few releases, which allows you to create VR or non-VR games. It's absolutely incredible and was sadly overlooked. I've been hoping for them to update it with proper sharing and do a new marketing push but doubtful such a thing is coming. There are 2 VR sets available- the full kit is more impressive but the software is the same on both if you care more about the diy games than what Nintendo provides.

dukoid2• 6 years ago

If you are interested in this topic (coding on mobile), can you take a look at my pet project https://github.com/stefanhaustein/tantilla and and let me know what you think? O:)

strategarius• 6 years ago

That's not the first solution, when gaming console gave access to hardware through simple programming language for the purpose of entertainment and education. There was Sega Saturn Game Basic [0], published in 1998 and giving access to almost all console hardware capabilities.

However, 2020 is not 1998, and I personally consider Basic a bit outdated even for education purposes. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool to introduce world of programming to kids, but Python would have been much more practical and extremely simple to learn.

[0] https://youtu.be/O_QU8eaMymo

kennydude• 6 years ago

I wonder how tihs compares to FUZE https://www.fuze.co.uk/nintendo-switch.html

gabrielsroka• 6 years ago

It looks like FUZE is on sale for $20: https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/fuze4-nintendo-switch/

dukoid2• 6 years ago

No public API docs for either platform it seems?

niconii5• 6 years ago

https://sup4.smilebasic.com/en/doku.php?id=reference:top

https://fuzearena.com/help

fuzzball_b• 6 years ago

Me as well.

I believe Fuze doesn’t have a server for sharing your work, but they do have a moderated forum where you can share your Nintendo friend code, and this way you can share your project.

SmileBASIC 4 for Nintendo Switch

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