Show HN: Discreet dead man's switch for victims of domestic abuse

https://www.deadmantracker.com/discreet-release-article

by deif • 6 years ago

112 114 6 years ago

mnw21cam2• 6 years ago

"We're sorry but dead man tracker doesn't work properly without JavaScript enabled. Please enable it to continue."

Yeah fine, but perhaps some explanation of what I would be seeing if I did that would be appreciated. If you want me to enable Javascript, you should at least tell me what you're going to do with that.

If you make a web site with functionality that requires Javascript, and there's no other way, that's fine. But you should still leave the bits that don't need Javascript up, so we can see what we are missing.

deif15• 6 years ago

Good advice, I'll change that so it explains that I don't use any form of tracking. It's a shame most SPA sites abuse JS to the point that users feel the need to disable it by default.

mnw21cam2• 6 years ago

I mean, this is a good example of a web site that I'm likely to be interested in seeing, but unlikely to need to use the functionality of. It's a great idea for web sites like this to make it look generally the same (if at all possible, or have an explanation of what it would look like), but not work (with a brief message about why) when Javascript is turned off.

I think that's possibly more important than claiming that you won't do any tracking. You sound like a trustworthy person, I'm sure, but of course the less reputable web sites could well claim they don't do any tracking, but then do tracking.

The first paragraph is a way to say "This is what you get when you switch Javascript on", and the second is "This is what you don't get when you switch Javascript on". Different messages. The first is verifiable useful information. The second is harder to verify.

And yes, I agree it is tragic that the world has reached this point.

cassiet5• 6 years ago

This isn’t mine, but the number of my users with js turned off isn’t worth the effort. You guys make a lot of noise, but not a lot of traffic.

alkonaut3• 6 years ago

This. Without JS the base expectation should be a blank page. Not even an error message.

nitrogen3• 6 years ago

Your analytics are probably blocked by anyone who has JS off so your traffic numbers are skewed.

mehdix• 6 years ago

This is not only about people who disable js, but also about people with disabilities who would benefit from accessibility features on your app. With this arguement, we should also ignore them, since they might not be the ones making the most traffic i.e. revenue for us. There is also the increasing number of users who disable trackes out of privacy concerns. At lease most of the marketing guys I've seen still assume what trackers show is all there is.

c222• 6 years ago

This sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Who's going to generate a lot of traffic interacting with a blank page?

cdelsolar• 6 years ago

No, you luddite, no one uses the internet anymore without Javascript.

toss1• 6 years ago

But plenty of people use NoScript[1,2] and similar configurable blockers

When you open a new website, only the previously whitelisted JS sources are enabled, and you can individually check out the initially disabled sites to see if you want to trust it to run on your machine.

So, yes, having some default information about the code required to view the basic site would definitely be helpful, and help build trust.

[1] https://github.com/hackademix/noscript [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoScript#ClearClick_(anti-clic...

woliveirajr• 6 years ago

Seems a nice option but as it happens with any other security-through-obscurity it made me wonder if the abuser reaction wouldn't be a bit harsh if it is discovered.

Wouldn't it be better if the functionality is not just hidden but also includes plausible deniability? Like creating one hidden screen that is accessed when you try to guess the word using just one specific setupable word, and showing another fake / useless screen when every other word is typed ?

deif15• 6 years ago

For sure, but any app store listing would give that away so that kind of obscurity only gets you so far.

Apple are extremely restrictive on how you present your apps, so it will always be obvious what the app is from the listing (which is why I specifically had to use hang man, as the name of the app has to match the general functionality). I couldn't even release a separate app with the same functionality but completely reskinned as they classed it as spam. So I had a problem of only having 1 app and providing functionality to two different sets of users. One set only wants the dead man switch functionality and an initial screen that hides the app is useless to them, and the other set only wants the hidden functionality.

If they were less rigorous in applying their rules then a more secure app could be made and I'm always open to suggestions. This was actually made in conjunction with liasing with a US charity for domestic abuse as it was a feature they specifically asked for.

Ajedi32• 6 years ago

Perhaps a PWA or a side-loadable app on Android would avoid the need for an app store listing.

Der_Einzige• 6 years ago

Can we start to accuse apple of being complacent in domestic abuse then? I'm only mostly joking

Apple products are used at a far higher proportion among women (and the vast majority of domestic abuse victims are women) than Android products are and the locked down nature of the platform means that attempts to fight this with innovative apps masquerading as other apps (as the author has indicated that they want to do) breaks their TOS and is banned by the platform.

Feminists need to start sounding the alarm right now and pushing women towards open platforms which give them a chance to fight against their abusers.

ryanschneider• 6 years ago

What if the game itself was 100% vanilla and all the dead man’s switch setup was done through a website using your iCloud login? Then instead of the help button the user could configure a “safe word” that when entered triggers the notifications.

Also, doesn’t a true dead man’s switch require periodic confirmation? As in, shouldn’t it trigger _unless_ I enter my safe word as a guess every N days?

Edit: I just read the homepage, the linked page didn’t really explain the switch, just the dedicated help button in the menu, so disregard that part.

andybak• 6 years ago

At first we tried to release a separate app to keep the target audience separate but it turned out to be against Apple's developer rules that two apps could not be released with the same functionality, so we had to compromise and include everything in one app and try to lower the risk for vulnerable users as much as possible

Or in a sane world talk to a human being who has the authority to understand that the rule is inappropriate in this case and allow you take the safer option.

How can something as important as this not get escalated inside Apple?

deif15• 6 years ago

Yep, you wouldn't believe how many escalations and people I phoned and got nowhere. Even an email to Tim got me nowhere. After 3 months I decided that something was better than nothing.

jenkstom• 6 years ago

As someone who was in an abusive relationship for decades, and my girlfriend is getting out of an even more abusive relationship, there really should be more resources for this. Or maybe there are and there just needs to be a better way to communicate with the people who need this sort of thing.

deif15• 6 years ago

Yep, it wasn't until I was contacted by an owner of a charity that handled cases of domestic abuse that I even knew it was even needed. Initially this was a hobby project I did in my spare time for when I went travelling and it's grown from there.

More visibility is definitely key, and charities are already stretched so it's not like they have the resources to get this kind of thing done for them. I've been reaching out to various charities to open a channel of communication to let them know that this is available for them.

ntucker2• 6 years ago

For what it's worth, I knew immediately what this was for but read your entire page looking for some kind of explicit confirmation and/or clear description of the use cases. The info given almost seems intentionally coy, as if you're even trying to maintain plausible deniability on the website.

DonHopkins6• 6 years ago

Maybe iOS and Android should have abuse prevention as well as suicide prevention resources built into the operating system and phone app, just like accessibility and health support and find-my-phone and emergency calling, so everybody has them, and having something like that isn't a red flag.

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/make-emergency-calls-...

lvs• 6 years ago

Does this require a remote service to function, or is it stand-alone? If the former, what happens if that remote service goes down?

deif15• 6 years ago

Yep, it runs on AWS servers due to the fact that the user's device might be destroyed and it has file hosting, automated calls and all that jazz happening which would not be possible if it was stand-alone.

In terms of redundancy and failover, barring a total region blackout on the AWS end, the remote service will continue to function forever due to the way I've set up the infrastructure. If I die then the service will simply be handed over to someone else.

sho2• 6 years ago

At the risk of sounding insensitive - I don't understand what this is. I know what a dead man's switch is, of course - maybe an app that emails your next in kin your email password or cryptocurrency private key if you haven't checked in for a few months. But what would this do? SMS the hospital/police if it's been 24 hours since you played hangman? What is an actual example of intended use?

I know it's probably not this simple, but it seems to me that if you're at the point where you're installing apps to take action in the case you're incapacitated by abuse, you should probably skip the app part and just take that action immediately...

Grustaf5• 6 years ago

I was also confused, but I think it probably isn’t a dead man switch at all, maybe it’s a panic button.

happytoexplain2• 6 years ago

This is a classic fallacy in regards to abusive relationships. Something along the lines of "just leave the relationship", or, "just press charges for past abuses before the next one comes and have him taken away".

mmm_grayons• 6 years ago

I've heard this before, but am not sure to what it refers. What is this fallacy? I always figured people could just get a restraining order or a concealed carry license if needed. Do the situations of abuse commonly preclude this?

deif15• 6 years ago

So in the cases of domestic abuse, the victims usually contact a charity that organises a way for them to escape safely. That means setting them up with a new place to live, a job so that they can afford to live (as usually victims will be dependent on their partners), etc. This takes a bit of time and the victims usually stay in their abusive environment if they can (due to over capacity of shelters and other reasons, I'm not the most knowledgeable about all this). But a support network will be available and they'll have a number to call, or friends and family that they can call instead.

The problem is that even though this support network exists, victims often have their phones taken away from their abusers so they end up stuck. If friends and family go round to the house, their abusers can refuse entry and say that the victim is fine or sleeping when in fact they're in danger. This app does not intend to phone authorities, it is down to the individual support network to organise that as they see fit, this app only intends to reach out to the support network as fast as possible when it is needed. If there is a true emergency and they can call emergency services then they can do so, emergency services are set up to handle this. In the case that the victims only want to notify their support network then they can do so from the app using the panic button.

It might be the case in the future that I build contacts with emergency services for a more involved response but I simply do not have the contacts at this point in time.

jonahx• 6 years ago

Constructive feedback: All the copy on both your website and in the app store assumes that one knows what a dead man's switch is in general, and what it means in this context in particular (ie, what you wrote above).

I had to use wikipedia to even (sort of) understand what you were selling.

sho2• 6 years ago

Thanks for explaining. So basically - this app acts like a concealed/plausibly deniable dead-man's switch with the capability of contacting third parties who might be able to help if the phone is taken away/destroyed by the abuser. And the reason the action isn't taken immediately is that it can take some time to set up a proper "escape" - but if critical, this can be expedited.

That makes sense now. It's not immediately obvious to a newcomer.

lmilcin• 6 years ago

People who are targets of abuse obviously have problem getting out of it. There are various reasons, most frequently they are financially or psychologically dependent on the abuser.

It is very frequently that person trying to help a victim is unable to convince the victim to leave the abuser.

Faced this situation, the next best step is to offer some kind of lifeline that can be triggered when things get bad. It is very important this is inconspicuous because it otherwise is very likely to trigger abusive behavior from their captor and if it is not inconspicuous it has very little chance of being actually used. Abused person that has no privacy is unlikely to call public number that can be tracked to their support person and may face being cut off from any communication.

It is not that important who is on the other side, the same way that is not important who hears shouts of captive person. What is important is there will be some help coming when it is needed the most.

Grustaf5• 6 years ago

It doesn’t sound like this is a dead man switch, sounds more like a panic button?

happytoexplain2• 6 years ago

Did you read the beginning? This is an extension to an existing dead man switch app whose only purpose is to hide the fact that it's a dead man switch. The underlying app is indeed a dead man switch.

Grustaf5• 6 years ago

I read the text in the link, but I can’t figure what it is a dead mans switch _for_?

hedora• 6 years ago

That seems to be correct. It triggers when you enter the online help function of the app.

If it were a dead man’s switch it would trigger if you failed to do so after a certain amount of time.

ape4• 6 years ago

Something physical would be interesting. Putting on the pink lipstick triggers the alarm. Because, of course, an abusive partner may take away the phone.

luckylion• 6 years ago

Because, of course, an abusive partner may take away the phone.

That's the point of the app, isn't it? If you don't use the App for some amount of time, the alarm gets triggered.

ggambetta• 6 years ago

Maybe the words "dead man" in the name of a service about domestic abuse is not such a great idea :(

It's a well known technical term for us, but probably not so much for the general public, so this could be easily misinterpreted.

__s3• 6 years ago

Anyone who's used a lawn mower should know what it is

ntucker2• 6 years ago

I think anyone who's used a lawnmower knows the concept but not necessarily the name.

Kaiyou• 6 years ago

Know the functionality, but how should you guess the term from operating a lawn mower?

johnmarcus3• 6 years ago

i've used a lawn mower many many times and there is no part of it I would have called a "dead mans switch". I'm sure it's technically there, but knowing the name is hardly a requirement. Also, i'm certain there is not a 1:1 overlap between abuse victims and lawn mower users.

DonHopkins6• 6 years ago

So obviously "Dead Man's Switch" is a smart lawnmower remote control app.

moritonal• 6 years ago

It's for warning when a person is no longer capable of operating the device for any reason, one being that you've died.

In the case where someone's worried for their life, isn't it exactly the correct severity for the situation?

gowld5• 6 years ago

I can't imagine trusting the mindset of a dev who builds a sensitive personal safety app for (mostly) women if they calls it "dead man tracker".

deif15• 6 years ago

Sorry but this was not the original target audience, this is merely a requested feature direct from a domestic abuse charity that wanted to use the app for their victims.

Thank you for your concern though.

dot1x2• 6 years ago

My problem with any "Dead man switch" is the fact that none of these services seem to survive.

Also, can you please write somewhere on the website what's your privacy policy? Is everything encrypted? if so, with what?

By it's nature this kind of service will hold very sensitive information.

deif15• 6 years ago

The privacy policy can be found fixed to the bottom of the website on every page (next to the copyright notice).

As with any service you should assume that nothing is encrypted (even though it is) and follow other articles that I've written about how to securely maintain private information when using third party services.

dot1x2• 6 years ago

So in short, the answer is "no".

I don't see why anybody would ever use your unsecure service or even pay for it.

StavrosK• 6 years ago

https://www.deadmansswitch.net/ (my service) has been running for 13 years now. I guess what you mean by "survive", but that's a pretty long time.

s_r_n• 6 years ago

This is a great cause, but it would probably be a good idea to explain somewhere on the website what exactly a dead man switch is and how it can be useful for domestic violence victims. The marketing seems a little too technical for the general public as it is.

kleton• 6 years ago

Very timely.

uncouplings surged in March as husbands and wives began emerging from weeks of government-mandated lockdowns intended to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus. Incidents of domestic violence also multiplied.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/divorces-...

calebm• 6 years ago

I've thought about building a dead man's switch product before, but I realized the immense commitment that such a product entails. It must continue to function for a very long time, and if it fails to function, very important messages would be lost. So, I hope you're in this for the long haul.

Dicey84• 6 years ago

Coming from a background in Law Enforcement (Australia) and dealing daily with Domestic Violence, this is a great idea.

Does need a polish (few bugs - can't delete switches / change reporting time?) and yes, potentially a 'cover story change' (build a simple period tracker for the female audience?)

I know there are a few private and government organisations over here trying to battle this problem, with the use of technology.

This would be a good addition to the options available.

treis• 6 years ago

I see variations on the concept of the OP in different forms like a codeword drink at a bar. Is there any evidence out there that they work?

Show HN: Discreet dead man's switch for victims of domestic abuse

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