Prison in Japan (2017)

https://gaijinass.com/2017/03/30/brutal-realities-of-prison-in-japan/

85 66 7 years ago

Simulacra• 7 years ago

Relevent in today's news: In the Wall Street Journal it noted: "Behind the scenes, according to people familiar with the matter, Mr. Ghosn’s advisers had been studying several scenarios to spare him a Japanese trial, where more than 99% of those indicted are convicted, according to official statistics."

That is ...incredibly high. Like China high. Facing those odds I think Mr. Ghosn made the right decision to flee.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ghosns-escape-followed-weeks-of...

throwawayhhakdl• 7 years ago

This is largely because Japanese prosecutors are so underfunded they only take on cases with absolute certainty of success.

moralsupply• 7 years ago

Especially as he's accused of corruption, which is non-violent crime.

lkramer2• 7 years ago

One of the reasons for that is that Japanese prosecutors are much more reluctant to take a case to court which they are not 100% sure will lead to conviction, meaning the overall number of courtcases are smaller.

That said, there are reportedly very real problems with a) foreigners getting a fair trial and b) confession being forced under duress.

gryson6• 7 years ago

Japan has taken steps to remedy confessions being forced under duress.

As of last year, all interrogations for serious crimes (i.e., trials that will have lay judges) must be audio and video recorded, as well as any interrogations of suspects that might have mental disabilities [1].

Of course, that doesn't address issues of lengthy imprisonment before charges are filed, but it's a step in the right direction.

[1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/06/01/national/crime-...

missosoup• 7 years ago

Just a reminder that you're not entitled to having a lawyer present while Japanese police interrogate you. Once arrested in Japan, you essentially lose all basic rights.

The police can also keep you in jail for months without charging you with anything. This pretty much ends your career and family life.

All of the above has happened to e.g. tourists accused of stealing a single dumpling.

Forced confessions are the bulk of what makes up that 99% conviction rate. Japanese lawyers always advise their clients to produce a confession regardless of the circumstances.

Non-natives are strongly advised to follow the law to the very letter and that they're fucked if ever arrested no matter how insignificant the infringement might first appear - and police will downplay the severity of infringement to make you confess.

The Japanese criminal justice system is only marginally better than Chinese. It's one of the areas where they just failed to advance as a society.

JumpCrisscross• 7 years ago

One of the reasons for that is that Japanese prosecutors are much more reluctant to take a case to court which they are not 100% sure will lead to conviction, meaning the overall number of courtcases are smaller

What's the evidence for this claim? Do we have dropped cases rates for Japan versus other countries?

(Reduced incarceration rates are sometimes cited. But that's impossible to separate from reduced criminality, or the legal system's propensity to jail versus punish in other ways.)

tecleandor• 7 years ago

Errrrr, you're talking about the "millions of dollars tax evasion" Carlos Goshn, isn't it? I mean... You don't need to be in China to land jail time for evading millions of dollars in taxes. You talk like you should go to jail for hiding hundred of millions without paying taxes.

vorpalhex2• 7 years ago

I was originally unsympathetic to his case as well, but reading into it it does seem like he's not getting a fair case. Unlike the US where court cases are a competition between two sides, Japan uses a single prosecutor that makes a kind of report to the court, so him getting treated unfairly is significant cause for concern.

He was held for a long period of time without external contact, and has in many ways been declared guilty even though evidence is lacking.

Tax evasion is a serious crime, and serious crimes deserve good faith investigation, not just sacrificing the first convenient figure.

ylyn• 7 years ago

What does a high conviction rate have to do with this? Maybe we should turn it around and say that other jurisdictions' prosecutors are wasting money prosecuting cases they are not sure of?

ls6122• 7 years ago

In a nation with strong rule of law and in particular a presumption of innocence and robust due process a few percent of people will get off simply because the prosecutors make mistakes (either intentional or accidental), on top of people who are actually innocent. A 99% conviction rate suggests that such protections don’t exist in the Japanese system and it is thus suspect in terms of respecting human rights.

XaspR8d• 7 years ago

That's very fair. Anecdotally my Japan-living friends speculate it is a mix of both the (positive) effect you suggest and confessions manufactured under duress.

During my travels I was advised to be particularly cautious about treating police courteously and following rules to the letter because getting arrested is a much bigger deal than elsewhere.

_jal• 7 years ago

You are aware the US federal criminal conviction rates are significantly >90%, too, right?

Like any number like this, it depends on how you count. But 94% is frequently used.

If you want to play with those numbers yourself, https://www.justice.gov/usao/file/831856/download .

el_cujo• 7 years ago

The US isn't exactly known for it's fair and perfect legal system (particularly if you're brown), so the fact that Japan's numbers are even higher says something.

ucha• 7 years ago

Not when you have money. It is mostly due to poorer charged persons accepting guilty plea deals.

genS3• 7 years ago

yeah good thinking. you could also think that in a country where being wrong can end your career (literally ended several prime ministers ones) then you won't charge a guy if you don't have strong proof that he is guilty. but you're right Mr. Ghosn, evading tax, using company money for his own good was right to flee.

glitchc• 7 years ago

Ghosn fancies himself an elite and was scared of the treatment he would receive in a real jail. He was expecting house arrest, as many white collar criminals receive in western jurisdictions. I have little to no sympathy for his “plight”.

Thank God for Japan treating elites the same as the less well-heeled. Western jurisdictions should take note.

cafard• 7 years ago

House arrest? Minimum-security prisons such as Allenwood have been referred to as "Club Fed". But I don't remember anyone in the US serving nominal jail time under house arrest. Pre-trial detention sure, but that goes for blue-collar suspects also.

tjpnz• 7 years ago

I would take my chances with Japan's justice system any day over China's.

jamjellyjam• 7 years ago

"In Canada, the national conviction rate is about 97%. This does not include cases in which the charges are dropped, which comprise about one-third of criminal cases. Absent Quebec, the province with the lowest conviction rate, the figure is 99%"

"In Japan, the criminal justice system has a conviction rate that exceeds 99%, including guilty plea cases. This has been attributed to low prosecutorial budgets impelling understaffed prosecutors to bring only the most obviously guilty defendants to trial."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

graeme• 7 years ago

....so the Canadian conviction rate is about 2/3 once you include dropped charges. The Japanese figure was 99% from indictment. 97% is not the comparable stat in this case.

close04• 7 years ago

The difference is that the Japanese system achieves those numbers in very different ways from the Canadian one [0].

Many confessions are extracted under duress. Some of those who admit guilt are plainly innocent, as recent exonerations have shown
Common criminal suspects may be held in detention for 23 days without charge. Many have only minimal contact with a lawyer. Few interrogations are recorded, and then not in their entirety, so there is not much to stop interrogators piling in. Physical torture is rare, but sleep deprivation, which is just as effective, is common. So are various other forms of psychological coercion. Some interrogators use moral blackmail (“Think of the shame you are bringing on your family”). A few, if they are convinced that the suspect is guilty, simply fabricate a confession and press the suspect into signing it.

This is as far from "justice" as it can be and puts those numbers in a very shameful light.

Whether the ends justify the means is up for debate but these methods are officially incompatible with most western democracy values (the US being one major exception - Guantanamo) and more in line with authoritarian states.

[0] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2015/12/05/forced-to-confe...

Zenbit_UX3• 7 years ago

Facing those odds I think Mr. Ghosn made the right decision to flee.

Indeed, only a fool would stay, you could literally go to Moscow and pray to be sent to the goulag.

everdev2• 7 years ago

more than 99% of those indicted are convicted, according to official statistics." That is ...incredibly high. Like China high.

High conviction rates aren't inherently bad. Bias and a lack of individual rights are bad (which it sounds like are present here).

In an ideal society though with strong individual rights and little to no bias, a high conviction rate would mean less innocent people getting prosecuted which is a good thing.

dsign• 7 years ago

I wonder if there are unexpected crimes that a foreigner would commit in Japan that would land her/him in jail. Things like disposing of plastic bottles in the wrong bin (a hopefully absurd example) ...

lkramer2• 7 years ago

From what I've heard, the most common unexpected ones are violations of conditions for staying (overstaying visas, that kind of stuff) or stuff like this: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4732269/all

tehlike• 7 years ago

I'm particularly surprised by all the comments.

tasogare• 7 years ago

For really trivial things you may just be told to do it properly next time (for instance not using light on bike at night). The main danger is probably difference of appreciation in the two cultures and legal systems: fight and moreover drugs are big no-no in Japan while they are almost normal in the West.

seanmcdirmid2• 7 years ago

I’m not sure if drugs are so un-normal in Japan. Walking around Osaka at night, I was offered drugs multiple times by I guess either African drug dealers? That has never happened to me in NYC or LA.

Hitton• 7 years ago

When you are a foreigner in Japan, you can end up in a jail for doing literally nothing wrong[0]. I know of another similar case where a person had to spend time in jail for accidentally "shoplifting" when in a mall they picked a thing to buy, they didn't realize they have to pay on same floor and wanted to pay at the ground floor (there was no visible separation or anything which would indicate how it's supposed to be to person who is not a local). They didn't even put the item in any bag, just was holding it on the hand and after getting of the stairs at the floor bellow, security stopped them, then police was called, no one spoke English there... at the end I think they spent 3 days in jails until the stupid misunderstanding was sorted. Japanese justice system would be absolutely ridiculous if it wasn't so sad[1].

[0] https://nymag.com/vindicated/2016/11/truth-lies-and-videotap...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpz1WMsm9W4

claudeganon• 7 years ago

There’s an amazing comic called “Doing Time” by Kazuichi Hanawa about life in a Japanese prison

https://www.abebooks.com/9788493340902/Doing-Time-Hanawa-Kaz...

Hanawa was an avant-garde cartoonist who spent time in prison for building and shooting homemade guns (which he did as hobby, not with any larger criminal intentions). He illustrates daily life, abuse by guards, and the stories of his fellow prisoners quite vividly.

redis_mlc• 7 years ago

From what I've read, the 99% conviction rate in Japan is from only prosecuting winnable cases ie. propping up the conviction rate.

The US does some related things:

1. The DoJ mailed letters to large employers to not provide legal funding for company officers because they were out-gunned. Those letters were laughed off.

2. The conviction rate for prosecutors is their "score-card" which creates all kinds of perverse incentives, especially for those elected

3. The SEC is very selective about who they will prosecute and avoid defendants with deep pockets

crmrc114• 7 years ago

There are a couple takes on this I have read (Note; Going to japan to visit the peace museum is still on my bucket list.)

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/japan-guilty-until-pro...

https://www.vox.com/world/2015/12/13/9989250/japan-crime-con...

There was a video documentary I watched some time ago and hopefully someone can find the name because I cannot. It basically went on to describe that in japan they would only file murder charges on suspects when they knew they could get a conviction.

Otherwise the police would just file the death as an accident or something. The other thing it went into is how the yakuza would basically act as a un-official police force. Basically the proper police would let them exist as long as they kept the criminal element inline. It was a cool documentary, really hope one of you gets a neuron spark and can tell me the name.

My take as someone who wants to visit: Seems like most legal issues you read about -with people visiting japan- is they do stupid things drunk or they get into fights. It's a nation where five year old kiddos ride public transportation alone. I think they just have zero tolerance for stupid anti-social behavior.

ishi• 7 years ago

This post makes me think that it was a foolhardy decision to drive a rental car on my last visit to Japan. It's very easy to make mistakes driving on the side of the road you're not used to. Who knows what could have happened if a policeman saw me fail to give right of way or something like that...

Zenbit_UX3• 7 years ago

Jesus, I just remembered I met some expats and we smoked a joint. It was communicated to me that it was frowned upon in Japan and maybe even serious but I'm starting to wonder exactly how much that joint could have cost me. Wtf Japan?

dreamcompiler• 7 years ago

That would probably just result in a ticket, which must be paid immediately at the police station. But if you'd had one drop of alcohol in your system, it would have meant jail time. The DUI limit in Japan is much lower than in the US and even if you haven't been drinking the limit doesn't matter if the cop judges you to be impaired.

Prison in Japan (2017)

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